Board 8 > [VGMC] Day 23! RollMeIn v Seraph, Hellburst v Tonitrus, rythm-change v UpperCity

(+) Yeah! (+)

Katamaritaino
Tonitrus
rhythm-changer

Seraph, the Traitor
Casio Hellburst
rhythm-changer
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Katamaritaino (Roll Me In)
Tonitrus
Upper City

really dont like the vocals in Katamaritaino but the rest of the song is still good enough to make me vote for it
weird day today

Katamaritaino (Roll Me In)
Casio Hellburst
Upper City

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Katamaritaino (Roll Me In)
Tonitrus
rhythm-changer

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Katamaritaino (Roll Me In)
Casio Hellburst
rhythm-changer

Katamari Damacy - Katamaritaino (Roll Me In)
Gahkthun of the Golden Lightning - Tonitrus
Umineko no Naku Koro ni - rhythm-changer

MATCH 1

Roll Me In is a nice, soothing track. Not entirely in the vein of songs of this style that I'd seek out, but it does this style pretty well!

I can appreciate the style of Seraph, but I don't think it appeals to me generally as well as it could. 0:28-0:51 is probably the best part of the song, but even that, I don't feel all that strongly about. Don't really care for the melody from 0:57-1:23. The rest of the song is fine. It's decent overall, but I think there's potential for me to like it more than I do if it sounded a little different.

MATCH 2

Casio Hellburst's intro is interesting enough as a buildup, but I don't like how that lead instrument from 0:29-1:03 sounds. The part right afterwards that carries on until the loop point is decent, but not particularly special.

I don't have that initial hype of listening to Tonitrus for the first time like I did last year, but I still really like this song! I think Dorchadas is better, but Tonitrus is still good enough to easily be my favorite song of the day. Great melody overall and Rita's vocals are always nice to hear.

MATCH 3

rhythm-changer's a pretty interesting song. I pretty much share Mac's thoughts on this. For me, the piano melody is what I like the most about this song. That said, I've always been pretty neutral on stuff like odd time, but I can appreciate the whole polyrhythm thing going on in this song. I remember back in maybe 2017 or 2018 finding the Odd Time VGM of the Day page (a year or two before finding Board 8 and discovering who the person who runs that is haha) and seeing the post for this song, and I thought it was interesting seeing a technical writeup of this song's use of polyrhythm, which I never really would have understood on my own without having read that.

Upper City is pleasant overall, but not all that noteworthy to me.

Tonitrus >> rhythm-changer = Katamaritaino (Roll Me In) > Seraph, the Traitor > Upper City > Casio Hellburst

Katamari Damacy - Katamaritaino (Roll Me In) [9.0]
Casio Mario World - Casio Hellburst [6.5]
Umineko no Naku Koro ni - rhythm-changer [9.0]

Monster Train - Seraph, the Traitor [8.0]
Gahkthun of the Golden Lightning - Tonitrus [6.0]
Robots (GBA) - Upper City [8.0]

Ah cool, Robots made the bracket! I can't wait to show support for such a refreshing, emotive soundtrack from the GBA library, which has one of the coolest PCM soundchipsoh it's against rhythm-changer
Oh

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Katamaritaino (Roll Me In)
Tonitrus
rhythm-changer

damn good songs today

Katamaritaino (Roll Me In)
Casio Hellburst
rhythm-changer

3rd match was tough, I really wouldn't mind if Upper City won anyway. 2nd match was the opposite, I was struggling to pick the winner between two songs that I'm not into.

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-(Katamari music is TOO HAPPY for me > : ( in the WRONG ways. i used to say i didn't understand why people with similar taste in music to me always seem to like music from this series when i personally dont, but i think it boils down basically to tone. i'm all for music with jazz harmony, electric pianos, and it's wonderful production values; but maybe especially when it comes to that style i want something darker. _Umbreon (Shadow the Hedgehog) is DARK TYPE and only likes edgy jazz fusion not happy jazz fusion sorry (*is pretending that Pat Metheny Group - The Gathering Sky is not the 8th song in the umbreon playlist*). yum yum yum yum" is what the lyrics sound like to me HA HA that's funny!! this song has cool sounds in it and is well produced and when i think about those elements i can get into it. the guitar solo at 4:51 is really GOOD.)-

-[Seraph always makes me think of the Brave Little Toaster song where they are at the junk yard with all of the cars singing about how their once happy life failed before they get turned into small cubes, it has like the same piano intro. This always confuses me when i hear the start of the song because i think that's what it is and this is why it took me like 20-30 seconds to actually guess this in the guessing game even though it was one of my favorite discoveries during noms in the whole contest! discovering this in noms got me to listen to the full Monster Train ost and while i did like most of it, this was the clear standout to me, basically i am saying "good choice"
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ok so things i like in this song:
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(1) i love the piano intro that reminds me of brave little toaster yeah.
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(2) love the contrast of the drums at :28-:39 to the contrast of the drums at :39-:51, the sort of proggy VIRGIL DONATI rhythm comparisons i'm all for (it's just 3+3+2 vs like basic kick/snare on 2&4 but it still FEELS COOL). and then
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(3) :56-1:07 and all the times that similar strange constant 8th piano bit hits is a contender for "favorite span of 10 seconds of music in the contest" like FUCK OHP%TAEWR how can you even make something that feel so cool without DYING right after you make it from as heart attack because of how good it is...it's still in 4/4 but the rhythm grouping is like [4+3+3+4+2+4+3+3+6]/4...wait it's not even the same every time that section comes up holy crap. The second time, at 1:12, it's [8+6+6+3+5+12+6+4+14]/8 those bits feel SO C0OL and the best part is i'm only talking about the like big drum/choir accents, and not even how the constant 8ths piano layer doesn't even line up with that at allMASASHI HAMAUZU BUT EDGY. i love things that sound like ANCIENT COMPUTER calculating when to generate hologram swords that stab you that have glowing runes in ancient forgotten language.(it is very much like SERAPHic blue - legacy, the 2nd half, except less pretty)
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those bits highlight one of the main requirements of odd time to me that i outlined on excess crayons: when it comes to odd time stuff i often need /ambiguity/ or some sort of fluidity or i'll likely find it boring or even cringe potentially. but here? it's like like yeah i can write out those numbers, but that doesn't even represent how hard to follow that is. The piano sequence is sort of like random chunks of a large sequence being cut out and placed into those containers of groups of 2/3/4 beats, scrambled around, and that is extremely hard to follow. and when it comes to odd time that is exactly what i want, i don't want to be able to easily follow what's going on. Whether it's rhythm-changer polymetric overload (we'll get there.;..) or stuff like these sections of this. it's significantly more appealing to me than condescending PRESS SPACE onm the 7th BEAT "oh no now there's only 7 beats and not 8" form of odd time.
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For a long time i didn't really understand why i liked these kinds of rhythms, and just knew that i liked them. I think my favorite emotion is "confusion" as i've said before, and everything that comes with that...i like feeling like i am lost in a MAZE or when it comes to more aggressive battle-y things like this i like feeling like my opponent is UNPREDICTGable and that there is some puzzle i have to solve to be able to be victorious. it was actually kinda funny: seeing some stuff where Steve Reich talked about why he has the approach he has made me think about this a bit. He desires the process to be discernible by the listener; which contrasts a lot of other experimental music at the time he joined experimental scenes...you can still be confused/overwhlemed/hypnotized by his stuff, but the reason i like steve reich and things like him so much, is because it's this really great balance between simplicity and overstimulation. What's happening isn't /clear/ but it is discernible, but it's also not being pointed out to you with bright flashing arrows. tbh a lot of what i'm saying here better applies to rhythm-changer though so pretend i'm saying this in that writeup instead of this one.
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(4) all the choir chords going "aaah" is fun : ) they remind me of that part 15 seconds into return to oblivion that i said i like a lot. i like the piano! and all the tiny electronic tidbits peeking in (i like this song)
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(5) the types of chord changes that i want where they are EPIC because they are unpredictable but still feel "right" lots of tonal center changes, etc. the BIG JMOMENT at 1:28 feels so good~! IT feels like we just got past ONE Trial but there is still more to come....actually having listened to this whole ost it's pretty homogenous in terms of chord movement style. like almost every song reuses similar progressions to this song, so they lose their charm in context of the whole ost imo, like an overdose of TOO MUCH CANDY, but isolated they're a real treat. the terraria calamity comparisons aren't unwarranted. i didn't think of them myself, but now that it's brought to my attention i totally agree. anyways despite how much i talked about the mathy parts my favorite part of the song is the 1:28 moment
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-{seraphib blue}-

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[continued...]
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[...continued]

-(one thing i really appreciate about Casio Hellburst and impacts my enjoyment in a positive way is something sort of separate from the song, so i feel unfair using it as an impact on judgement but i'd still like to talk about it. When rwlh used this in a guessing game on discord i was privately thinking "this is like a fast paced kirby boss theme-esque remix of something by Oneohtrix Point Never..." (to the point i'm still pretty sure it's referencing some oneohtrix point never tracks). Now, Oneohtrix Point Never is like...tied with Bjork and Virgil Donati and Pat Metheny Group and Steve Reich for "favorite musician that is not a vgm composer or chiptune scene person" for me, so that's kind of a huge deal...but little did i know...? THIS GAME actually has 1-to-1 covers of OPN's music in it! and i mean like they are so accurate (but within snes limits) that they set off auto copyright claim detectors!!! THat's insane that someone was able to recreate his stuff in SNES limits in that way, but what's fascinating to me is that this song sounds nothing like OPN but i still got "OPN vibes" without knowing that was actually an influence on the composer, the first time i heard this. now oneohtrix point never is fairly well known, but he's certainly /weird/ and absolutely a niche artist i would absolutely never expect to hear in a smw hack, but in this game here it is! the non-opn artists he picked are certainly fairly big hits for me too (Hiatus Kaiyote - By Fire especially). so yeah, just, wow, i'm glad this soundtrack exists.
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i suppose to make the above thing clearer: there's a big set of reasons I like oneohtrix point never i could go on about, but in the way it's relevant to Casio Hellburst, it's this sorta lonely synthy dystopian future vibe i get from the stuff. The energy in the opn examples is totally the opposite of Casio's fast paced aggression (he's typically known as an "ambient" experimental artist more than anything) but here's some examples of what I'm talking about i guess, i can't pinpoint the exact opn songs i had suspected casio hellburst is referencing, but i can at least give a sense of the style/era within opn's work that i feel the melodic sense and instrumentation that i feel the style calls back to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RNRPUkQmtg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdixIErng_w
I find it so interesting how much the melodic lead at 0:05 just sounds like this stuff (ie a pact between strangers)...it's the parallel harmonization of it, the specific square wave-like timbre, etc. it soars /beneath/ the aggressive breaks in this dark and trippy way. then at 1:11 you get this sped up version of the Zones Without People sound to it. again i have no idea if these style references are intentional (and i think other similar tracks might be more the intended reference zone) but the fact that I felt it before i even learned that Casio Mario World was like 50% Oneohtrix Point Never covers makes me think it has to be on purpose. I may even suspect that opn songs are being sampled partially as part of the sample set here.
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in the end the appeal here for me is largely "in a roundabout way it reminds me of an artist i really like", rather than me being much a fan of this particular song. i still appreciate the kirby boss theme adjacency (confirmed intentional) and i typically do enjoy fast paced edm, but what i'm really here for is everything except for those two things. the undercurrent of what this track feels like without drums. and maybe that's more prominent than i give it credit for. after all, this is the climax of the game after a given player will have been hearing these weird minimal repetitive glitchy oneohtrix point never tunes for hours. suddenly it's something totally different, fast paced and frantic now that you're at the boss, but absolutely keeping the eerie strange experimental ambient electronic tone beneath it all. I would say "i wish the mixing was better" but like, fuck, this is literally snes music lol, i would've never guessed this was playable as an SPC file until i was told, and that's kinda amazing. and it's not just "impressive for the format" that makes it cool, it's also the fact that it places this piece of music in a really unique zone, it feels like nothing else i've ever heard as far as "realism" goes, when i first heard it not knowing what it was from, i couldn't quite tell what format it was, or if it even was in any form of limited format, even if it has a few vestiges of it. it's just a fascinating balance this sits on, between feeling fully produced and feeling like an snes track, and somehow, it's an snes track.
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for no particular reason, here are a few more of my favorite oneohtrix point never songs (not ones that are in the game):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be67Sb4S-ec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYr5MypHAhQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk1kSzE-FNQ
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i'm pretty sure casio mario world is my favorite SNES soundtrack, if you count it as an snes soundtrack. a huge thank you to rwlh for letting me know that it exists. A listen for anyone who is interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-Amp_FNpiI
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-[i like the general sound of tonitrus pretty well. the accordion is great. this reminds me a lot of La Mer for some very shallow reasons such as having accordion. it's a bit more ANIME which is not a bad thing in my book! the harmonies are very nice, and it doesn't really do anything i dislike. I find it hard to come up with things to say about it, but i enjoy its sound. It makes me happy to listen to!!!!]-

-{this match is very close. despite how the ranking position numbers and writeup size may make things look. the only thing holding tonitrus back is the very vague criteria of "i don't find it memorable" or something, i like it's style quite a bit more actually, but it doesn't "stick with me" in the way casio hellburst does. still, i can see myself flipping here if i give both more listens, both absolutely in the same variable position range, but casio is on top at the moment}-

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[continued...]
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Seraph, the Traitor
Casio Hellburst
Upper City

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Seraph, the Traitor
Casio Hellburst
rhythm-changer

Roll Me In is a very nice example of the sort of idyllic, slightly wistful feel that pervades the Katamari Damacy soundtrack. My nostalgia for this track is real-- I played the game shortly after it came out, and connect this to pretty fond memories of the Prince chugging around the neighbourhood, rolling up... things. [Crowns, apparently.] 3:03 is pretty cool (the sound that plays right at that timestamp is great)-- the track seems to open up a bit at that moment with the strings, and I like the slightly wandering guitar line that plays there.

Seraph opens with some train sounds, and has a fairly monstrous temperament. Lo-fi filters like the one in the intro always click with me, and I like the the way things slowly shift into focus-- into the piano and strings. I love the way 0:56 makes the meter feel jagged (though you can still count it out as 8 bars of 4/4) before it goes back into something that feels a lot more like 4/4. Along with the heavily dissonant melody in that section, it gives the track a feeling that it's spiraling into chaos. The quieter section with the music box-esque lead at 2:29 is a nice respite as well, and I love the chord change at 2:39.

Casio Hellburst's intro is super compelling-- I love the intensity it exudes, the frantic energy. I think it lingers a bit too long on the idea it starts at 1:03-- the track sticks with it for a minute, mostly relying on a light melody to move it along, then introduces a few new elements before the loop. I kinda lose the momentum of the track here.

Tonitrus feels a bit too familiar in a way I'm not super fond of. What differentiates this from things that feel familiar that I am fond of? It's probably the specific emotions I associate with each sort of familiarity. I kinda know how a track like Tonitrus will go, but I don't associate much feeling to that progression.

Rhythm-changer is really cool to me in part because it doesn't actually explicitly change the rhythm of the track, but rather my perception of it, by shifting my focus to different polymetric layers. It's not just my perception of rhythm that shifts, but also of the tempo! When the 4/4 layer shows up I feel like I'm mentally trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. The whole thing is like an aural illusion that plays with the listener's perspective, and that feels fascinating and (probably) fitting to one of the themes of the game. (I haven't actually read Umineko!) I also love the strangely glassy sounds that show up in one of the layers.

Upper City is a really nice, chill composition that does some great work with the sound capabilities of the GBA. The way it quietly shifts from minor to major is really relaxing. I've remarked on this for a couple other tracks but this is also a track that feels efficient, in some way-- it doesn't really waste time or instruments; it focuses on a couple of musical phrases, and lets small changes in each repetition express something slightly different about them.

Katamaritaino (Roll Me In)
Tonitrus
Upper City

Katamari Damacy - Katamaritaino (Roll Me In)
Gahkthun of the Golden Lightning - Tonitrus
Umineko no Naku Koro ni - rhythm-changer

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Katamaritaino (Roll Me In)
Tonitrus
rhythm-changer

Katamaritaino is a classic as far as I'm concerned. Very chill and pleasant to listen to.

I really like the singer in Tonitrus. I don't like this as much as her work on Little Busters, but this song is still pretty great also.

rhythm-changer and also sounds kind of like Pokemon RSE - Dive, which I never noticed before until now >.>. This song is a lot more intricate though which in this case at least is a good thing. The piano part in particular is good but really just the way everything fits together is the main appeal here.
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Seraph, the Traitor / of the Golden / rhythm
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Katamaritaino (Roll Me In)
Casio Hellburst
Upper City

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