Current Events > Abortions are completely MORAL and the decision belongs to the WOMAN.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Choco posted...

the only pro-abortion arguments on ce are
* republicans suck (which is true but a very bad argument)
* Choco, when did you stop being entertaining? It happened in the last 6 months. Did the pandemic really mess you up that bad? :( You have friends here, ones who care about you and who want you to succeed. But you have to want their help, or it is all useless.
and that's it

She's not wrong though.
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Its an easy solution to an expensive difficult problem.

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Tenlaar posted...

It literally is the first stage in the development of a human life. Stop embracing ignorant anti-science arguments out of a desire to spite pro-lifers.

Human life isn't "scientifically" sacred. It literally doesn't matter, it's still a clump of cells.
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I don't even care about the morality anymore. We're supposed to be a smart species. We know where babies come from and how they're made. We've developed low cost ways of preventing pregnancy while allowing sex. Yet somehow we have at least a half million uses of the pregnancy undo button annually by people that either somehow never had condoms and their use in protection in their awareness, or are idiots ignoring advice given for their own good and just want an easy way to flush the consequences away.

I'd like to be on the pro choice side, but it seems to be another thing we use to just let ourselves become dumber and more complaisant in our own well being.

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Webmaster4531 posted...

Human life isn't "scientifically" sacred. It literally doesn't matter, it's still a clump of cells.

I didn't say anything about sacred, because that would be fucking stupid. What I said is that denying that it is a developing potential human life, even in the germinal stage, is embracing ignorant anti-science arguments in order to spite pro-life people.

As long as they 100% pay for it out of pocket

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lightwarrior78 posted...

just want an easy way to flush the consequences away.

I mean who doesn't consider an evasive surgery with potential lasting psychological effects to be easy.

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I'm against it in nearly all circumstances, but I believe the choice is up to the pregnant person.

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It's not particularly fair in my opinion that woman can opt out of child birth and raising completely while the main will be on the hook for child support regardless of what they want.

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Prismsblade posted...

It's not particularly fair in my opinion that woman can opt out of child birth and raising completely while the main will be on the hook for child support regardless of what they want.

hmm men can opt out can't they? if they don't put their name on the birth certificate

In 2021 a woman is brave for having an abortion for a baby she didnt want but a man is a shitbag for not paying child support for a kid he didnt want.

equality!

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Prismsblade posted...

It's not particularly fair in my opinion that woman can opt out of child birth and raising completely while the main will be on the hook for child support regardless of what they want.

It is not, but the lack of a financial abortion option is in no way an argument against actual abortions.

ROOTFayth posted...

hmm men can opt out can't they? if they don't put their name on the birth certificate

Whether or not your name is on the bc doesnt matter in regards to paying cs for a biological child. She can get court ordered paternity tests

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ApoorHollow posted...

In 2021 a woman is brave for having an abortion for a baby she didnt want but a man is a shitbag for not paying child support for a kid he didnt want.

equality!

I honestly think there's a gray area there, if a woman is a junkie and has been raped or similar scenario then it's probably fine to not go through with the pregnancy, if however it's a 20 something woman who's a bit promiscuous and just won't let the guys use a condom because sex is more fun without it and she's just using abortion as a contraceptive then she is a shitbag

lightwarrior78 posted...

We're supposed to be a smart species.

No, we're not.

lightwarrior78 posted...

I'd like to be on the pro choice side, but it seems to be another thing we use to just let ourselves become dumber and more complaisant in our own well being.

Why do think forcing women to have babies and paying for orphans is better?

WashYourHands posted...

Whether or not your name is on the bc doesnt matter in regards to paying cs for a biological child. She can get court ordered paternity tests

well that certainly isn't fair then

After having a baby, no one should be forced to raise one of these let alone carry it fully to term.

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Tenlaar posted...

It is not, but the lack of a financial abortion option is in no way an argument against actual abortions.

If equality is most people's main argument for it wouldnt giving man the option to opt out entirely financially be a decent compromise for gaining absolute control over life and death?

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Prismsblade posted...

If equality is most people's main argument for it wouldnt giving man being able to opt out entirely financially be a decent compromise for gaining absolute control over life and death?

Once again, anything relating to financial abortion is not an argument against actual abortion. They are not the same discussion and the reasoning for them do not come from the same places. Arguing that women shouldn't be able to get abortions unless men can also get financial abortions is not trying to move men towards a more equitable situation, it is trying to drag women back into a worse one.

Prismsblade posted...

If equality is most people's main argument for it

It's not.

How is "equality" most peoples' main argument for abortion?

How is equality an argument, even?

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Eh, a lot of arguments can be made to see if Abortion is "moral" or not, but ultimately abortion is a necessary evil.

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They're certainly not immoral or unethical in the eyes of science.

UnfairRepresent posted...

This.

Most of the country is pro abortion. That's not reflected in laws.

Eh, I know it's purely semantics but I actually think both sides is anti-abortion. Pro-choicers and Pro-lifers both want to lower the amount of abortions. It's just one side provides a realistic way in doing it and the other side wants to pretend we live in a perfect world where absolutes are the only way to solving it. Maybe it's purely anecdotal, but I don't know a single person who goes "omg I absolutely can't wait to get an abortion!", it's usually a very tough and heartbreaking decision a woman has to go through regarding abortion.

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Seems like you've already made up your mind, no point in responding then.

So the only answer you believe exists is that the tiny life is not yet a human being?

This is why I asked. I want to hear an argument that isn't just 'it's not a human until X'.

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Ilishe posted...

So the only answer you believe exists is that the tiny life is not yet a human being?

This is why I asked. I want to hear an argument that isn't just 'it's not a human until X'.

The only argument that matters is body and choice.

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I dunno bout moral. Sometimes maybe. Should have the option to abort tho

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

The only argument that matters is body and choice.

I see.

I don't agree. Some choices cannot be made unilaterally. We can't pretend the baby has no rights just to give the mother more rights. It's wrong.

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a woman deciding what she does with her body shouldnt be a political or moral issue to begin with. mainly cause its nobody else's business but her own...

ZevLoveDOOM posted...

a woman deciding what she does with her body shouldnt be a political or moral issue to begin with. mainly cause its nobody else's business but her own...

That is not the point.

The point is she is deciding what happens to the new life inside of her womb.

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Ilishe posted...

That is not the point.

The point is she is deciding what happens to the new life inside of her womb.

The important part

It's her body

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Ilishe posted...

I see.

I don't agree. Some choices cannot be made unilaterally. We can't pretend the baby has no rights just to give the mother more rights. It's wrong.

But its not a baby. Fetus and baby are not interchangeable words.

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Tell white women to stop voting for Republicans and then assault on abortions would not be a thing. They have the power to stop this. So until that happens stop complaining at everyone else.

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cjsdowg posted...

Tell white women to stop voting for Republicans and then assault on abortions would not be a thing

Lots of women are pro-life, too, you know.

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Abortions are not completely moral. But killing someone in self defense is not completely moral either and no one would ever ask to make that illegal. Abortion is not the same thing as murder.

Also if you go to far in self-defense that can be considered a crime, for good reason. Unless the mother's life is at risk, abortion after the baby reaches viability (sometime in the third trimester) is definitely a moral issue.

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lightwarrior78 posted...

I don't even care about the morality anymore. We're supposed to be a smart species. We know where babies come from and how they're made. We've developed low cost ways of preventing pregnancy while allowing sex. Yet somehow we have at least a half million uses of the pregnancy undo button annually by people that either somehow never had condoms and their use in protection in their awareness, or are idiots ignoring advice given for their own good and just want an easy way to flush the consequences away.

I'd like to be on the pro choice side, but it seems to be another thing we use to just let ourselves become dumber and more complaisant in our own well being.

Dumber and complacent.

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Ilishe posted...

We can't pretend the baby has no rights just to give the mother more rights.

We don't have to pretend. Fetuses have no rights.

I guess if you are okay with women killing their children

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ButteryMales posted...

We don't have to pretend. Fetuses have no rights.

Hard pill to swallow for many, but 100% factual.

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TerraSeeker posted...

I guess if you are okay with women killing their children

I mean thats not whats happening but conservatives have a tendency to be over dramatic.

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I agree that decision belongs to the woman. People appeal to a higher power to claim women cannot choose and that higher power is not showing up in court.

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