programmer types

Topic List	Page List: 1, 2, 3
pinky0926 05/26/21 9:12:29 AM #51:	nothanks1 posted... Am I the only fucking sysadmin that actually works with people to make me do less work overall No kidding. I actually didn't make this topic to talk about helpdesk or sys-admins people but since we're at it let's talk about the sys admins who's entire self-worth appears to be based around feeling cleverer than their "u$ers" --- CE's Resident Scotsman. https://imgur.com/ILz2ZbV <cite>pinky0926 posted [p:954314256] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>nothanks1 posted... </cite> <quote>Am I the only fucking sysadmin that actually works with people to make me do less work overall</quote> No kidding. I actually didn't make this topic to talk about helpdesk or sys-admins people but since we're at it let's talk about the sys admins who's entire self-worth appears to be based around feeling cleverer than their "u$ers" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kloe_Rinz 05/26/21 9:14:27 AM #52:	pinky0926 posted... Did you really go into a sys admin role thinking that you wouldn't have to help users with their queries? do you really think sysadmins need to be helping users with anything? there are 3 layers of helpdesk between me and an end user but nothing stops them from just walking to my desk. nothing in the job description says I need to talk to anyone outside the IT department or upper management Drpooplol posted... man, you should be better at your job and direct them properly. You blame the users for you not getting your work done, when you're the one training them to continue asking you by helping them when you're not supposed to. You let your own ego/personal satisfaction get in the way of doing your job and then blame it on other people. This leads me back to my first post nah. i'll keep helping them and then blame them later. our company is has a very strong sentiment against "not my job" type statements <cite>Kloe_Rinz posted [p:954314299] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>pinky0926 posted... </cite> <quote>Did you really go into a sys admin role thinking that you wouldn't have to help users with their queries?</quote>do you really think sysadmins need to be helping users with anything? there are 3 layers of helpdesk between me and an end user but nothing stops them from just walking to my desk. nothing in the job description says I need to talk to anyone outside the IT department or upper management Drpooplol posted... </cite> <quote>man, you should be better at your job and direct them properly. You blame the users for you not getting your work done, when you're the one training them to continue asking you by helping them when you're not supposed to. You let your own ego/personal satisfaction get in the way of doing your job and then blame it on other people. This leads me back to my first post</quote>nah. i'll keep helping them and then blame them later. our company is has a very strong sentiment against "not my job" type statements </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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The Trent 05/26/21 9:15:10 AM #54:	lol --- i swear to God most of y'all cats just don't know The Trent you barely know yourself so i guess most of y'all should be offended <cite>The Trent posted [p:954314318] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>lol </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NatsuSama 05/26/21 9:18:17 AM #55:	I actually side with Kloe on this. Being in IT doesn't make you the personal information desk or help desk or your mommy who will hold your hand through the journey or all of your IT problems. There are a multitude of issues here that I don't even know where to begin. Like folks who refuse to read emails. You can send people a simple 4 sentence paragraph of where to send something and you can tell if a person didn't bother to read the email if they didn't do a single thing asked. Or folks who think because you are in IT, you should be able to answer any and all IT related questions regardless of your actual title. You wouldn't expect the Dentist to be able to answer a question about dermatology or brain surgery. Same applies to IT. Just because someone is in IT, doesn't mean its their job to help you, or even have answers for you to whatever it is you are asking. IT has a broad spectrum of jobs, areas of expertise and responsibilities like many ignorantly don't realize. The list cam go on and on for those ignorant of IT. --- WAAAH, I CAN'T BEAT THIS GUY WITH HIS TACTICS, I'M GONNA CALL IT SPAM AND CONDEMN HIM FOR USING IT <cite>NatsuSama posted [p:954314392] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>I actually side with Kloe on this. Being in IT doesn't make you the personal information desk or help desk or your mommy who will hold your hand through the journey or all of your IT problems. There are a multitude of issues here that I don't even know where to begin. Like folks who refuse to read emails. You can send people a simple 4 sentence paragraph of where to send something and you can tell if a person didn't bother to read the email if they didn't do a single thing asked. Or folks who think because you are in IT, you should be able to answer any and all IT related questions regardless of your actual title. You wouldn't expect the Dentist to be able to answer a question about dermatology or brain surgery. Same applies to IT. Just because someone is in IT, doesn't mean its their job to help you, or even have answers for you to whatever it is you are asking. IT has a broad spectrum of jobs, areas of expertise and responsibilities like many ignorantly don't realize. The list cam go on and on for those ignorant of IT. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nothanks1 05/26/21 9:22:01 AM #56:	Me last Thursday: I'll help the sweet old receptionist pick out a phone and help her set it up. 15 minutes of work. in return she buys me a 750ml of Irish gin as a thank you. did I do it for the gift? No. I did it because I didn't want someone ripped off and confused with her new phone. There's a fucking reason I can stroll in two hours late every two weeks and nobody cares. I keep the place running. The latest I've ever stayed was 7pm once during the return to school on August. I'm always 'done' by 3:45pm Once I was only contacted outside of working hours by the principal because his daughter accidently got her WhatsApp hacked. And that was one of the reasons I got offered a permanent contract. Like it was specifically mentioned. Work with your people so you do less work and be less stressed. ~~warning, might not work if your company is rubbish~~ <cite>nothanks1 posted [p:954314482] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Me last Thursday: I'll help the sweet old receptionist pick out a phone and help her set it up. 15 minutes of work. in return she buys me a 750ml of Irish gin as a thank you. did I do it for the gift? No. I did it because I didn't want someone ripped off and confused with her new phone. There's a fucking reason I can stroll in two hours late every two weeks and nobody cares. I keep the place running. The latest I've ever stayed was 7pm once during the return to school on August. I'm always 'done' by 3:45pm Once I was only contacted outside of working hours by the principal because his daughter accidently got her WhatsApp hacked. And that was one of the reasons I got offered a permanent contract. Like it was specifically mentioned. Work with your people so you do less work and be less stressed. warning, might not work if your company is rubbish</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kloe_Rinz 05/26/21 9:22:35 AM #57:	NatsuSama posted... I actually side with Kloe on this. Being in IT doesn't make you the personal information desk or help desk or your mommy who will hold your hand through the journey. There are a multitude of issues here that I don't even know where to begin. Like folks who refuse to read emails. You can send people a simple 4 sentence paragraph of where to send something and you can tell if a person didn't bother to read the email if they didn't do a single thing asked. Or folks who think because you are in IT, you should be able to answer any and all IT related questions regardless of your actual title. You wouldn't expect the Dentist to be able to answer a question about dermatology or brain surgery. Same applies to IT. but people like trent and tc think its more important for the syadmin being paid 6 figures to help a salesman reset their passwords instead of maintaining vsphere or mem <cite>Kloe_Rinz posted [p:954314498] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>NatsuSama posted... </cite> <quote>I actually side with Kloe on this. Being in IT doesn't make you the personal information desk or help desk or your mommy who will hold your hand through the journey. There are a multitude of issues here that I don't even know where to begin. Like folks who refuse to read emails. You can send people a simple 4 sentence paragraph of where to send something and you can tell if a person didn't bother to read the email if they didn't do a single thing asked. Or folks who think because you are in IT, you should be able to answer any and all IT related questions regardless of your actual title. You wouldn't expect the Dentist to be able to answer a question about dermatology or brain surgery. Same applies to IT.</quote>but people like trent and tc think its more important for the syadmin being paid 6 figures to help a salesman reset their passwords instead of maintaining vsphere or mem </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Trent 05/26/21 9:24:30 AM #58:	I think you can do both --- i swear to God most of y'all cats just don't know The Trent you barely know yourself so i guess most of y'all should be offended <cite>The Trent posted [p:954314548] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>I think you can do both </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kloe_Rinz 05/26/21 9:26:42 AM #59:	The Trent posted... I think you can do both but you wouldn't double my salary to do so nor would you be happy if i emailed your managers manager and reported the time loss you caused <cite>Kloe_Rinz posted [p:954314603] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>The Trent posted... </cite> <quote>I think you can do both</quote>but you wouldn't double my salary to do so nor would you be happy if i emailed your managers manager and reported the time loss you caused </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Trent 05/26/21 9:27:17 AM #60:	No, probably not double We are talking about the 2nd job being helping password resets, after all --- i swear to God most of y'all cats just don't know The Trent you barely know yourself so i guess most of y'all should be offended <cite>The Trent posted [p:954314622] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>No, probably not double We are talking about the 2nd job being helping password resets, after all </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kloe_Rinz 05/26/21 9:28:08 AM #61:	The Trent posted... No, probably not double We are talking about the 2nd job being helping password resets, after all nah, we're talking about a sysadmin doing the job of two people. i wouldnt take a lower salary for more work <cite>Kloe_Rinz posted [p:954314646] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>The Trent posted... </cite> <quote>No, probably not double We are talking about the 2nd job being helping password resets, after all</quote>nah, we're talking about a sysadmin doing the job of two people. i wouldnt take a lower salary for more work </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NatsuSama 05/26/21 9:28:14 AM #62:	The Trent posted... I think you can do both This is a prime example of ignorance to how IT works. --- WAAAH, I CAN'T BEAT THIS GUY WITH HIS TACTICS, I'M GONNA CALL IT SPAM AND CONDEMN HIM FOR USING IT <cite>NatsuSama posted [p:954314649] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>The Trent posted... </cite> <quote>I think you can do both</quote>This is a prime example of ignorance to how IT works. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nothanks1 05/26/21 9:28:56 AM #63:	Questions for the 'pro' sysadmins. Since I'm not one obviously because I don't shit on my users. Are you on call? What happens if you stroll in an hour late or leave early? how often do you get to say 'can't do that, talk to your manager about why' and go back playing Mario kart <cite>nothanks1 posted [p:954314668] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Questions for the 'pro' sysadmins. Since I'm not one obviously because I don't shit on my users. Are you on call? What happens if you stroll in an hour late or leave early? how often do you get to say 'can't do that, talk to your manager about why' and go back playing Mario kart</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Drpooplol 05/26/21 9:31:53 AM #64:	Kloe_Rinz posted... nor would you be happy if i emailed your managers manager and reported the time loss you caused my manager wouldn't care he would think you're being dumb for emailing him about that instead of just directing me to who should help instead. --- "Or do you want to know more about my vagina?" LIE "No" <cite>Drpooplol posted [p:954314745] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Kloe_Rinz posted... </cite> <quote>nor would you be happy if i emailed your managers manager and reported the time loss you caused</quote>my manager wouldn't carehe would think you're being dumb for emailing him about that instead of just directing me to who should help instead. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Trent 05/26/21 9:34:06 AM #65:	Kloe_Rinz posted... nah, we're talking about a sysadmin doing the job of two people. i wouldnt take a lower salary for more work then stop doing the job you feel like you are not being paid for? --- i swear to God most of y'all cats just don't know The Trent you barely know yourself so i guess most of y'all should be offended <cite>The Trent posted [p:954314801] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Kloe_Rinz posted... </cite> <quote>nah, we're talking about a sysadmin doing the job of two people. i wouldnt take a lower salary for more work</quote> then stop doing the job you feel like you are not being paid for? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kloe_Rinz 05/26/21 9:36:01 AM #66:	nothanks1 posted... Since I'm not one obviously because I don't shit on my users. i vent on CE but I'm a nice guy IRL, respect my coworkers no matter what department they are in, and do what I can to help. don't make this mistake again nothanks1 posted... Are you on call? the only time i answer my mobile is if a direct colleague or my manager calls me. or i suppose any C-level. the only time i work after hours is if there is a high workload at the moment or if a mission critical system is down nothanks1 posted... What happens if you stroll in an hour late or leave early? get chewed out unless theres a good reason why (working late the previous day isnt good enough, but picking up my car from the mechanics is) nothanks1 posted... how often do you get to say 'can't do that, talk to your manager about why' and go back playing Mario kart never cause i dont screw my employer. i get paid for X amount of hours a day and thats how much i work usually. i do get to tell people to talk to their manager if they ask me to purchase shit for them <cite>Kloe_Rinz posted [p:954314839] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>nothanks1 posted... </cite> <quote>Since I'm not one obviously because I don't shit on my users.</quote>i vent on CE but I'm a nice guy IRL, respect my coworkers no matter what department they are in, and do what I can to help. don't make this mistake again nothanks1 posted... </cite> <quote>Are you on call?</quote>the only time i answer my mobile is if a direct colleague or my manager calls me. or i suppose any C-level. the only time i work after hours is if there is a high workload at the moment or if a mission critical system is down nothanks1 posted... </cite> <quote>What happens if you stroll in an hour late or leave early?</quote>get chewed out unless theres a good reason why (working late the previous day isnt good enough, but picking up my car from the mechanics is) nothanks1 posted... </cite> <quote>how often do you get to say 'can't do that, talk to your manager about why' and go back playing Mario kart</quote>never cause i dont screw my employer. i get paid for X amount of hours a day and thats how much i work usually. i do get to tell people to talk to their manager if they ask me to purchase shit for them </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squall28 05/26/21 9:36:24 AM #67:	randy_123r posted... Like if you want me to add something, I need to first figure out if it actually makes sense to do, hence the initial denial. Oh yeah, this is a big one too. Sometimes the request won't actually fix the problem, or it will cause a lot of problems elsewhere. The latter is why I often say no initially. It's not just about fulfilling a request, it's about making sure all the other potential problems get addressed as well. --- You can't go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending. -Misattributed to CS Lewis <cite>Squall28 posted [p:954314846] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>randy_123r posted... </cite> <quote>Like if you want me to add something, I need to first figure out if it actually makes sense to do, hence the initial denial.</quote> Oh yeah, this is a big one too. Sometimes the request won't actually fix the problem, or it will cause a lot of problems elsewhere. The latter is why I often say no initially. It's not just about fulfilling a request, it's about making sure all the other potential problems get addressed as well. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kloe_Rinz 05/26/21 9:37:29 AM #68:	Drpooplol posted... my manager wouldn't care your managers manager would, especially if they are c-level Drpooplol posted... he would think you're being dumb for emailing him about that instead of just directing me to who should help instead. not when ive forwarded him 3 separate email chains where ive already told you that in the past The Trent posted... then stop doing the job you feel like you are not being paid for? im too much of a pushover to do this <cite>Kloe_Rinz posted [p:954314868] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Drpooplol posted... </cite> <quote>my manager wouldn't care</quote>your managers manager would, especially if they are c-level Drpooplol posted... </cite> <quote>he would think you're being dumb for emailing him about that instead of just directing me to who should help instead.</quote>not when ive forwarded him 3 separate email chains where ive already told you that in the past The Trent posted... </cite> <quote>then stop doing the job you feel like you are not being paid for?</quote>im too much of a pushover to do this </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Trent 05/26/21 9:38:28 AM #69:	you sound kinda overall unhappy with, not necessarily the work, but the organizational structure you've been fitted into have you looked for another company to work at? --- i swear to God most of y'all cats just don't know The Trent you barely know yourself so i guess most of y'all should be offended <cite>The Trent posted [p:954314887] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>you sound kinda overall unhappy with, not necessarily the work, but the organizational structure you've been fitted into have you looked for another company to work at? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kloe_Rinz 05/26/21 9:40:01 AM #70:	The Trent posted... you sound kinda overall unhappy with, not necessarily the work, but the organizational structure you've been fitted into yeah def. at the end of the day i dont care that much unless i wasnt able to complete my actual job. i get paid decent and i like my coworkers The Trent posted... have you looked for another company to work at? no. where i live they arent hiring many sysadmins. plenty of network engineer positions available but i know nothing about networking <cite>Kloe_Rinz posted [p:954314913] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>The Trent posted... </cite> <quote>you sound kinda overall unhappy with, not necessarily the work, but the organizational structure you've been fitted into</quote>yeah def. at the end of the day i dont care that much unless i wasnt able to complete my actual job. i get paid decent and i like my coworkers The Trent posted... </cite> <quote>have you looked for another company to work at?</quote>no. where i live they arent hiring many sysadmins. plenty of network engineer positions available but i know nothing about networking </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NatsuSama 05/26/21 9:42:29 AM #71:	nothanks1 posted... Questions for the 'pro' sysadmins. Since I'm not one obviously because I don't shit on my users. Are you on call? What happens if you stroll in an hour late or leave early? how often do you get to say 'can't do that, talk to your manager about why' and go back playing Mario kart Your questions are actually quite irrelevant. If you feel compelled to do things that are not your job, you are more than welcome to continue lol. I can stroll in and leave whenever I like, my job is flexible. Lol to being "on call." Even if I was, I'd only adhere to being on call to my actual job, not whatever shit on your mind. I also have no problems telling people that's not my job, ask the proper team who can better assist you for assistance being the actual SAs. Although to be clear my job is Cyber security despite me getting admin questions way too often. I'm constantly busy with cyber security tasks including a lot of OT, I dont have time for those who can't be bothered to read, or questions that you should ask the SA but persist on asking CS. My job is cyber security so it's actually a big nono to even be stepping outside my bounds in the cyber security world. Separation of duties. --- WAAAH, I CAN'T BEAT THIS GUY WITH HIS TACTICS, I'M GONNA CALL IT SPAM AND CONDEMN HIM FOR USING IT <cite>NatsuSama posted [p:954314980] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>nothanks1 posted... </cite> <quote>Questions for the 'pro' sysadmins. Since I'm not one obviously because I don't shit on my users. Are you on call? What happens if you stroll in an hour late or leave early? how often do you get to say 'can't do that, talk to your manager about why' and go back playing Mario kart</quote>Your questions are actually quite irrelevant. If you feel compelled to do things that are not your job, you are more than welcome to continue lol. I can stroll in and leave whenever I like, my job is flexible. Lol to being "on call." Even if I was, I'd only adhere to being on call to my actual job, not whatever shit on your mind. I also have no problems telling people that's not my job, ask the proper team who can better assist you for assistance being the actual SAs. Although to be clear my job is Cyber security despite me getting admin questions way too often. I'm constantly busy with cyber security tasks including a lot of OT, I dont have time for those who can't be bothered to read, or questions that you should ask the SA but persist on asking CS. My job is cyber security so it's actually a big nono to even be stepping outside my bounds in the cyber security world. Separation of duties. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WingsOfGood 05/26/21 9:44:39 AM #72:	As a programmer, I am the opposite. You can basically do anything you want given enough time and effort. Someone says, "Can we do this?" I say sure, gonna take some time to figure out how to do it. Unless I already know how to do it. But then the irony is security or some other red tape says you can't because our rules aren't flexible or whatever. <cite>WingsOfGood posted [p:954315020] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>As a programmer, I am the opposite. You can basically do anything you want given enough time and effort. Someone says, "Can we do this?" I say sure, gonna take some time to figure out how to do it. Unless I already know how to do it. But then the irony is security or some other red tape says you can't because our rules aren't flexible or whatever. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ZevLoveDOOM 05/26/21 9:58:28 AM #74:	if you have time and resources, then sure, ask whatever you want. but when you got tight ass deadlines and you keep pilling shit up on top of the work you already have or ask for last minute changes for shit you already did and was previously approved, seriously, go fuck yourself! lol <cite>ZevLoveDOOM posted [p:954315386] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>if you have time and resources, then sure, ask whatever you want. but when you got tight ass deadlines and you keep pilling shit up on top of the work you already have or ask for last minute changes for shit you already did and was previously approved, seriously, go fuck yourself! lol </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
realnifty1 05/26/21 10:12:01 AM #75:	WingsOfGood posted... As a programmer, I am the opposite. You can basically do anything you want given enough time and effort. Someone says, "Can we do this?" I say sure, gonna take some time to figure out how to do it. Unless I already know how to do it. But then the irony is security or some other red tape says you can't because our rules aren't flexible or whatever. As a senior developer this is one of the first things I break the newbies of. I do believe for almost all developers the default answer should be no, but not to tell them their ideas are stupid, even when they actually are. The reason for this is because there is a process for ideas and you shouldn't just be randomly asking my devs to do things. I have 2 years of roadmap with 5 years of work on it already, go convince leadership your idea is worth pursuing and then find a tech lead to workshop it with their blessing. Then once it is approved and placed on the roadmap we can start bringing more people to the conversation of accomplishing the details. <cite>realnifty1 posted [p:954315728] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>WingsOfGood posted... </cite> <quote>As a programmer, I am the opposite. You can basically do anything you want given enough time and effort. Someone says, "Can we do this?" I say sure, gonna take some time to figure out how to do it. Unless I already know how to do it. But then the irony is security or some other red tape says you can't because our rules aren't flexible or whatever.</quote> As a senior developer this is one of the first things I break the newbies of. I do believe for almost all developers the default answer should be no, but not to tell them their ideas are stupid, even when they actually are. The reason for this is because there is a process for ideas and you shouldn't just be randomly asking my devs to do things. I have 2 years of roadmap with 5 years of work on it already, go convince leadership your idea is worth pursuing and then find a tech lead to workshop it with their blessing. Then once it is approved and placed on the roadmap we can start bringing more people to the conversation of accomplishing the details. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nothanks1 05/26/21 10:13:19 AM #76:	I'm going to drink the gin tonight <cite>nothanks1 posted [p:954315751] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>I'm going to drink the gin tonight</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WingsOfGood 05/26/21 10:30:59 AM #77:	realnifty1 posted... As a senior developer this is one of the first things I break the newbies of. I do believe for almost all developers the default answer should be no, but not to tell them their ideas are stupid, even when they actually are. The reason for this is because there is a process for ideas and you shouldn't just be randomly asking my devs to do things. I have 2 years of roadmap with 5 years of work on it already, go convince leadership your idea is worth pursuing and then find a tech lead to workshop it with their blessing. Then once it is approved and placed on the roadmap we can start bringing more people to the conversation of accomplishing the details. Oh I know about all that redtape. The role I used to be in was unbundered by this and it was great. The business people we worked for were tech savvy and never gave us ridiculous deadlines. So it was more or less always, "can this idea be achieved?" And yes it could if they let us take the time and spend the money on whatever was required. My new group is more of an enterprise approach and in such a vein it is not my role to face with the business anymore. The default answer should not be no, it should be "talk to the people who make those decisions, I am working on what management assigned me." Or "blah blah project scope" When you say it can't be done, you just look incompetent. <cite>WingsOfGood posted [p:954316323] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>realnifty1 posted... </cite> <quote>As a senior developer this is one of the first things I break the newbies of. I do believe for almost all developers the default answer should be no, but not to tell them their ideas are stupid, even when they actually are. The reason for this is because there is a process for ideas and you shouldn't just be randomly asking my devs to do things. I have 2 years of roadmap with 5 years of work on it already, go convince leadership your idea is worth pursuing and then find a tech lead to workshop it with their blessing. Then once it is approved and placed on the roadmap we can start bringing more people to the conversation of accomplishing the details.</quote> Oh I know about all that redtape. The role I used to be in was unbundered by this and it was great. The business people we worked for were tech savvy and never gave us ridiculous deadlines. So it was more or less always, "can this idea be achieved?" And yes it could if they let us take the time and spend the money on whatever was required. My new group is more of an enterprise approach and in such a vein it is not my role to face with the business anymore. The default answer should not be no, it should be "talk to the people who make those decisions, I am working on what management assigned me." Or "blah blah project scope" When you say it can't be done, you just look incompetent. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
realnifty1 05/26/21 10:42:16 AM #78:	WingsOfGood posted... When you say it can't be done, you just look incompetent. No doesn't mean it can't be done. The answer is no, because those devs can't help you with this right now. No, they don't have cycles to work through your idea. No, they can't do this for you off the side of their desk. No, they don't have the authority to change the roadmap. <cite>realnifty1 posted [p:954316671] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>WingsOfGood posted... </cite> <quote>When you say it can't be done, you just look incompetent.</quote> No doesn't mean it can't be done. The answer is no, because those devs can't help you with this right now. No, they don't have cycles to work through your idea. No, they can't do this for you off the side of their desk. No, they don't have the authority to change the roadmap. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pinky0926 05/26/21 10:48:49 AM #79:	Kloe_Rinz posted... but people like trent and tc think its more important for the syadmin being paid 6 figures to help a salesman reset their passwords instead of maintaining vsphere or mem Nah it's not that I think your time is well spent resetting passwords, more that you're a shining example and credit of how engineers are as people :) --- CE's Resident Scotsman. https://imgur.com/ILz2ZbV <cite>pinky0926 posted [p:954316878] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Kloe_Rinz posted... </cite> <quote>but people like trent and tc think its more important for the syadmin being paid 6 figures to help a salesman reset their passwords instead of maintaining vsphere or mem</quote> Nah it's not that I think your time is well spent resetting passwords, more that you're a shining example and credit of how engineers are as people :) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WingsOfGood 05/26/21 10:49:26 AM #80:	pinky0926 posted... You'll ask if something is possible and they'll say "no" almost before the sentence is out realnifty1 posted... As a senior developer this is one of the first things I break the newbies of. I do believe for almost all developers the default answer should be no Seems your answer to feasibility was we don't know how or have the expertise to do it. realnifty1 posted... No doesn't mean it can't be done. The answer is no, because those devs can't help you with this right now. No, they don't have cycles to work through your idea. No, they can't do this for you off the side of their desk. No, they don't have the authority to change the roadmap. Gonna be real, this post kinda sounds like you work at a place where the structure is killing your soul. Like is management overworking you and constantly trying to add stuff such that you just dismiss all new things till the roadmap is "complete"? <cite>WingsOfGood posted [p:954316893] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>pinky0926 posted... </cite> <quote>You'll ask if something is possible and they'll say "no" almost before the sentence is out</quote> realnifty1 posted... </cite> <quote>As a senior developer this is one of the first things I break the newbies of. I do believe for almost all developers the default answer should be no</quote> Seems your answer to feasibility was we don't know how or have the expertise to do it. realnifty1 posted... </cite> <quote>No doesn't mean it can't be done. The answer is no, because those devs can't help you with this right now. No, they don't have cycles to work through your idea. No, they can't do this for you off the side of their desk. No, they don't have the authority to change the roadmap.</quote> Gonna be real, this post kinda sounds like you work at a place where the structure is killing your soul. Like is management overworking you and constantly trying to add stuff such that you just dismiss all new things till the roadmap is "complete"? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
realnifty1 05/26/21 10:57:44 AM #81:	Not at all, I have on many occasion, where I'm the tech lead that an idea gets sent to once it has been vetted through product, said anything is possible in tech given enough time and money. The point is that is takes time and money just for to figure out how much time and money doing the idea would take. Not having that vetted with product vision before someone takes the time to scope it is a waste of time and money, especially when developer time is one of the most expensive and in demand things. It's not just the money you pay them, but the lost opportunity cost where you could have had them doing something you actually wanted. It is because developer resources are so precious that I try to impress on the new people to understand where and how they should be applying themselves. <cite>realnifty1 posted [p:954317124] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Not at all, I have on many occasion, where I'm the tech lead that an idea gets sent to once it has been vetted through product, said anything is possible in tech given enough time and money. The point is that is takes time and money just for to figure out how much time and money doing the idea would take. Not having that vetted with product vision before someone takes the time to scope it is a waste of time and money, especially when developer time is one of the most expensive and in demand things. It's not just the money you pay them, but the lost opportunity cost where you could have had them doing something you actually wanted. It is because developer resources are so precious that I try to impress on the new people to understand where and how they should be applying themselves. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
zhenghan 05/26/21 10:59:43 AM #82:	The_Hat posted... It's easier to say no and think about it than it is to say "let me think about it." Because if you say no, then the other person gets the idea that it can't be done. So if it turns out you really can't do it their expectations are already set. If you say "let me think about it" then the other person already assumes it'll work and they will get mad if you come back later and tell them it can't be done. second this. but it's not just that it's easier to say no, but also that not everything that they ask is feasible to do. it's better to set the expectations low to begin with than to say "I'll do it in ___ days" and then fail to deliver because that's just bad. --- "dude i am like a 10 th grader,i am not smart i am not smart okay.i know basic english not level 100 english lol" -stephanielish <cite>zhenghan posted [p:954317194] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>The_Hat posted... </cite> <quote>It's easier to say no and think about it than it is to say "let me think about it." Because if you say no, then the other person gets the idea that it can't be done. So if it turns out you really can't do it their expectations are already set. If you say "let me think about it" then the other person already assumes it'll work and they will get mad if you come back later and tell them it can't be done.</quote>second this. but it's not just that it's easier to say no, but also that not everything that they ask is feasible to do. it's better to set the expectations low to begin with than to say "I'll do it in ___ days" and then fail to deliver because that's just bad. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tyranthraxus 05/26/21 11:00:18 AM #83:	This video explains why programmers behave this way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:954317212] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>This video explains why programmers behave this way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jabodie 05/26/21 11:11:12 AM #84:	WingsOfGood posted... Gonna be real, this post kinda sounds like you work at a place where the structure is killing your soul. Like is management overworking you and constantly trying to add stuff such that you just dismiss all new things till the roadmap is "complete"? Tbh the post your replying to seems many steps removed from this conclusion lol --- <insert sig here> <cite>Jabodie posted [p:954317531] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>WingsOfGood posted... </cite> <quote>Gonna be real, this post kinda sounds like you work at a place where the structure is killing your soul. Like is management overworking you and constantly trying to add stuff such that you just dismiss all new things till the roadmap is "complete"?</quote>Tbh the post your replying to seems many steps removed from this conclusion lol </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NatsuSama 05/26/21 11:40:00 AM #85:	Tyranthraxus posted... This video explains why programmers behave this way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg Good lord there's so much truth to this video. Even in cyber security this holds truth. People with grand ideas that clearly do not do the job, and their logic and confusion why it can't be done shows. --- WAAAH, I CAN'T BEAT THIS GUY WITH HIS TACTICS, I'M GONNA CALL IT SPAM AND CONDEMN HIM FOR USING IT <cite>NatsuSama posted [p:954318402] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Tyranthraxus posted... </cite> <quote>This video explains why programmers behave this way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg</quote>Good lord there's so much truth to this video. Even in cyber security this holds truth. People with grand ideas that clearly do not do the job, and their logic and confusion why it can't be done shows. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Slaya4 05/26/21 11:51:30 AM #86:	Techies are almost as bad as Karen's ngl. Techies have the excuse of lacking social skills though. I remember the first time starting out how can somebody be so smart about whatever concept of the universe, but be so bad at interacting with people. Like the tone in this topic is filled with folks that seem boarder line depressed/miserable because of their interactions with people. --- Am I going too hard? <cite>Slaya4 posted [p:954318798] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Techies are almost as bad as Karen's ngl. Techies have the excuse of lacking social skills though. I remember the first time starting out how can somebody be so smart about whatever concept of the universe, but be so bad at interacting with people. Like the tone in this topic is filled with folks that seem boarder line depressed/miserable because of their interactions with people. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
t5yvxc 05/26/21 12:57:57 PM #87:	Slaya4 posted... Techies are almost as bad as Karen's ngl. Techies have the excuse of lacking social skills though. I remember the first time starting out how can somebody be so smart about whatever concept of the universe, but be so bad at interacting with people. Like the tone in this topic is filled with folks that seem boarder line depressed/miserable because of their interactions with people. I'd say it's quite the opposite with the Karen's being the people who run to the first IT guy they see demanding help. The non tech person that think they are Ms Daisies or special snowflakes. If you have a concern you ask the person who actually has the job to help you. You don't just go up to the first IT guy you see and assume it's their job to help, they have time to help you, that they know how to help you, or that they should help anyway. <cite>t5yvxc posted [p:954321013] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Slaya4 posted... </cite> <quote>Techies are almost as bad as Karen's ngl. Techies have the excuse of lacking social skills though. I remember the first time starting out how can somebody be so smart about whatever concept of the universe, but be so bad at interacting with people. Like the tone in this topic is filled with folks that seem boarder line depressed/miserable because of their interactions with people.</quote>I'd say it's quite the opposite with the Karen's being the people who run to the first IT guy they see demanding help. The non tech person that think they are Ms Daisies or special snowflakes. If you have a concern you ask the person who actually has the job to help you. You don't just go up to the first IT guy you see and assume it's their job to help, they have time to help you, that they know how to help you, or that they should help anyway. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
t5yvxc 05/26/21 2:16:45 PM #88:	Tyranthraxus posted... This video explains why programmers behave this way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg This is a great video to answer many of the questions here lol. <cite>t5yvxc posted [p:954323503] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Tyranthraxus posted... </cite> <quote>This video explains why programmers behave this way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg</quote>This is a great video to answer many of the questions here lol. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jiek_Fafn 05/26/21 2:33:17 PM #89:	Tyranthraxus posted... This video explains why programmers behave this way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg Lmao I'm in management, and this is often how a lot of our meetings go. There's like 3 of us that seem to have a good head on our shoulders and then like 10 that will unashamedly ask a question they should be embarrassed by even letting leave their mouth. It's even more frustrating when the 3 smart folks will tell them it's dumb and they'll still insist on dragging an expert off of whatever theyre working on to entertain their dumb questions. Like that's part of my job for sure, but it's not part of the nerd's that they insist on bothering. Then we all have had our time wasted --- PSN: Jiek <cite>Jiek_Fafn posted [p:954324063] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Tyranthraxus posted... </cite> <quote>This video explains why programmers behave this way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg</quote>Lmao I'm in management, and this is often how a lot of our meetings go. There's like 3 of us that seem to have a good head on our shoulders and then like 10 that will unashamedly ask a question they should be embarrassed by even letting leave their mouth. It's even more frustrating when the 3 smart folks will tell them it's dumb and they'll still insist on dragging an expert off of whatever theyre working on to entertain their dumb questions. Like that's part of my job for sure, but it's not part of the nerd's that they insist on bothering. Then we all have had our time wasted </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Giant_Aspirin 05/26/21 2:43:39 PM #90:	pinky0926 posted... You'll ask if something is possible and they'll say "no" almost before the sentence is out. with software anything is possible. it's just a matter of determining if it's worth the effort. --- Playing: Yakuza 4 Remaster; Luigi's Mansion 3; Dead Cells; You see it your way, I'll see it mine and I'll be fine <cite>Giant_Aspirin posted [p:954324387] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>pinky0926 posted... </cite> <quote>You'll ask if something is possible and they'll say "no" almost before the sentence is out.</quote> with software anything is possible. it's just a matter of determining if it's worth the effort. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nothanks1 05/26/21 2:47:36 PM #91:	Tyranthraxus posted... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg The entire video is incredibly stupid. It's literally 'hey stupid fucks, I'm the expert. Listen to me and stop promising things that are impossible' and get them to understand. <cite>nothanks1 posted [p:954324501] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Tyranthraxus posted...</cite> <quote> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg </quote> The entire video is incredibly stupid. It's literally 'hey stupid fucks, I'm the expert. Listen to me and stop promising things that are impossible' and get them to understand.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NatsuSama 05/26/21 3:14:03 PM #92:	nothanks1 posted... The entire video is incredibly stupid. It's literally 'hey stupid fucks, I'm the expert. Listen to me and stop promising things that are impossible' and get them to understand. Facts don't care about your feelings... --- WAAAH, I CAN'T BEAT THIS GUY WITH HIS TACTICS, I'M GONNA CALL IT SPAM AND CONDEMN HIM FOR USING IT <cite>NatsuSama posted [p:954325391] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>nothanks1 posted... </cite> <quote>The entire video is incredibly stupid. It's literally 'hey stupid fucks, I'm the expert. Listen to me and stop promising things that are impossible' and get them to understand.</quote>Facts don't care about your feelings... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
asdf8562 05/26/21 3:21:14 PM #93:	nothanks1 posted... The entire video is incredibly stupid. It's literally 'hey stupid fucks, I'm the expert. Listen to me and stop promising things that are impossible' and get them to understand. This post tells me you're exactly like those completely out of touch people in the video making impractical ideas and demands. Ideas that come from individuals who barely no anything about the subject if anything at all. The idea sounds wonderful in their heads because they don't actually know much about the day to day operations the actual techs have to do to implement their "wonderful" idea. <cite>asdf8562 posted [p:954325650] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>nothanks1 posted... </cite> <quote>The entire video is incredibly stupid. It's literally 'hey stupid fucks, I'm the expert. Listen to me and stop promising things that are impossible' and get them to understand.</quote>This post tells me you're exactly like those completely out of touch people in the video making impractical ideas and demands. Ideas that come from individuals who barely no anything about the subject if anything at all. The idea sounds wonderful in their heads because they don't actually know much about the day to day operations the actual techs have to do to implement their "wonderful" idea. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pinky0926 05/26/21 4:37:36 PM #94:	Tyranthraxus posted... This video explains why programmers behave this way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg Lol, always loved this --- CE's Resident Scotsman. https://imgur.com/ILz2ZbV <cite>pinky0926 posted [p:954328432] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Tyranthraxus posted... </cite> <quote>This video explains why programmers behave this way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg</quote> Lol, always loved this </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kloe_Rinz 05/26/21 4:38:34 PM #95:	Slaya4 posted... Techies are almost as bad as Karen's ngl. Techies have the excuse of lacking social skills though. I remember the first time starting out how can somebody be so smart about whatever concept of the universe, but be so bad at interacting with people. Like the tone in this topic is filled with folks that seem boarder line depressed/miserable because of their interactions with people. Its the other way around. Youre skipping the process, you think your issue is important enough to skip the queue, you think youre important enough to skip the queue, and you think the tech is the Karen for having disdain for you? Youre disrespecting your coworkers <cite>Kloe_Rinz posted [p:954328461] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Slaya4 posted... </cite> <quote>Techies are almost as bad as Karen's ngl. Techies have the excuse of lacking social skills though. I remember the first time starting out how can somebody be so smart about whatever concept of the universe, but be so bad at interacting with people. Like the tone in this topic is filled with folks that seem boarder line depressed/miserable because of their interactions with people.</quote>Its the other way around. Youre skipping the process, you think your issue is important enough to skip the queue, you think youre important enough to skip the queue, and you think the tech is the Karen for having disdain for you? Youre disrespecting your coworkers </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nothanks1 05/26/21 4:40:46 PM #96:	NatsuSama posted... Facts don't care about your feelings... Exactly. This is why you explain what you do and what you cannot do. You sometimes have to explain concepts to people that aren't experts in your domain. I had to sit down and explain the concept of accounts, email, shared drives and active directory to the fucking board of management who are on average, 60 years of age and don't use computers to get a point across at why we needed to overhaul the entire set up of the school. asdf8562 posted... This post tells me you're exactly like those completely out of touch people in the video making impractical ideas and demands. thanks. <cite>nothanks1 posted [p:954328529] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>NatsuSama posted...</cite> <quote>Facts don't care about your feelings...</quote> Exactly. This is why you explain what you do and what you cannot do. You sometimes have to explain concepts to people that aren't experts in your domain. I had to sit down and explain the concept of accounts, email, shared drives and active directory to the fucking board of management who are on average, 60 years of age and don't use computers to get a point across at why we needed to overhaul the entire set up of the school. asdf8562 posted...</cite> <quote>This post tells me you're exactly like those completely out of touch people in the video making impractical ideas and demands. </quote> thanks.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SwayM 05/26/21 4:52:20 PM #97:	I skipped a lot of this thread but what is it about engineers /programmers /system admins that have led them to believe theyre just more important than everyone else? Guess what kiddos. Everyone can relate to having more work than there are hours in the day and everyone else around them being idiots. Ya aint special. --- Like 90% of CE topics are the same way lol. CE is edgy/contrarian as f*** and will do anything to troll the TC/OP. -Touch <cite>SwayM posted [p:954328914] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>I skipped a lot of this thread but what is it about engineers /programmers /system admins that have led them to believe theyre just more important than everyone else? Guess what kiddos. Everyone can relate to having more work than there are hours in the day and everyone else around them being idiots. Ya aint special. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kloe_Rinz 05/26/21 6:07:47 PM #98:	SwayM posted... I skipped a lot of this thread but what is it about engineers /programmers /system admins that have led them to believe theyre just more important than everyone else? Guess what kiddos. Everyone can relate to having more work than there are hours in the day and everyone else around them being idiots. Ya aint special. Its not about feeling more important. Youre missing the point imagine you dont know how to tie your shoes even though 10 emails were sent to you in the past month showing you how. Who do you ask for help? a) head accountant b) read the email or at the very least ask your mother b) you probably shouldnt have been hired to begin with if you cant do something this basic youre supporting option a here <cite>Kloe_Rinz posted [p:954331202] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>SwayM posted... </cite> <quote>I skipped a lot of this thread but what is it about engineers /programmers /system admins that have led them to believe theyre just more important than everyone else? Guess what kiddos. Everyone can relate to having more work than there are hours in the day and everyone else around them being idiots. Ya aint special.</quote>Its not about feeling more important. Youre missing the point imagine you dont know how to tie your shoes even though 10 emails were sent to you in the past month showing you how. Who do you ask for help? a) head accountant b) read the email or at the very least ask your mother b) you probably shouldnt have been hired to begin with if you cant do something this basic youre supporting option a here </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SwayM 05/26/21 7:49:41 PM #99:	Kloe_Rinz posted... you probably shouldnt have been hired to begin with if you cant do something this basic Proving my point. If your education is in computers, get paid to do computer shit. Your education is going to be spent explaining basic computer concepts to people who dont have the first idea about computers Why that gives anyone a false sense of superiority is beyond me. --- Like 90% of CE topics are the same way lol. CE is edgy/contrarian as f*** and will do anything to troll the TC/OP. -Touch <cite>SwayM posted [p:954334495] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>Kloe_Rinz posted... </cite> <quote>you probably shouldnt have been hired to begin with if you cant do something this basic</quote> Proving my point. If your education is in computers, get paid to do computer shit. Your education is going to be spent explaining basic computer concepts to people who dont have the first idea about computers Why that gives anyone a false sense of superiority is beyond me. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MedeaLysistrata 05/26/21 7:52:43 PM #100:	SwayM posted... Proving my point. If your education is in computers, get paid to do computer shit. Your education is going to be spent explaining basic computer concepts to people who dont have the first idea about computers Why that gives anyone a false sense of superiority is beyond me. Because mom and dad couldnt figure out the VCR... and... dude, I could be gaming Edit: as a dishwasher by trade, I should probably empathize with IT here --- "Why is ontology so expensive?" - JH [Is this live?][Joyless planet...] <cite>MedeaLysistrata posted [p:954334582] in Something ... [t:79478973]...</cite> <quote>SwayM posted... </cite> <quote>Proving my point. If your education is in computers, get paid to do computer shit. Your education is going to be spent explaining basic computer concepts to people who dont have the first idea about computers Why that gives anyone a false sense of superiority is beyond me.</quote>Because mom and dad couldnt figure out the VCR... and... dude, I could be gaming Edit: as a dishwasher by trade, I should probably empathize with IT here </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Something I've noticed about engineer/programmer types (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Something I've noticed about engineer/programmer types