Current Events > I actually want the Empire to win in Star Wars.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I only know about what I see in Star Wars movies, and not the extended universe or what not...

So based on that, whats wrong with the Empire? They provide stability, leadership, and employ trillions. They seem to have peace everywhere, if not for the rebels. I dont think I saw anything they did that was evil in 4/5/6 that wasnt because of the rebels.

---

don't they enslave and genocide alien races, or something like that?

---

They enslaved and killed people offscreen.

---

IdiotMachine posted...


---

IdiotMachine posted...

I dont think I saw anything they did that was evil in 4/5/6 that wasnt because of the rebels.

Alderaan?

---

g0ldie posted...

don't they enslave and genocide alien races, or something like that?

I dont think they ever mention any of that in 4/5/6.

fan357 posted...

They enslaved and killed people offscreen.

Thats not even mentioned in 4/5/6...

---

I kind of wanted to see this explored in the sequel trilogy but yeah, we got what we got.

It would be cool to see how grimy and corrupted the galaxy would become if they did win.

The 1st order kind of won in episode 8 but those movies were so bad and incoherent.

---

They blow up an entire planet in the original movie because Leia refused to reveal the rebel base.

---

Imagine thinking this is cogent media analysis.

---

They are shown to be racists onscreen, which is typically considered a trait of "bad people".

If you notice, the Alliance has a bunch of different types of aliens working for them. The Empire typically only has humanoid stormtroopers, and humans giving orders in leadership. The Emperor is also a "human" force user and seeks to kill all other Jedi only having a selected heir.

Sometimes they stoop to using bounty hunters, but they are always visibly disgusted to associate with those kinds of people. Other than blowing up planets to make a point, which they do in the ST too, they don't deep dive into their ideals, just that they are "bad".

So you gonna completely ignore Alderaan or what TC

Honestly, George Lucas did a pretty bad job of making the Galactic Republic look like good guys in the Prequel Trilogy

---

didnt they try to uh blow up an entire planet twice

---

DarkRoast posted...

Honestly, George Lucas did a pretty bad job of making the Galactic Republic look like good guys in the Prequel Trilogy

............that's literally the point

Ayyysop posted...

............that's literally the point

We're talking about a man who digitally edited Episode IV to make Greedo shoot first.


---

DavidZ2844 posted...

So you gonna completely ignore Alderaan or what TC

I dont remember Alderaan. Can you elaborate?

---

EnglishBullDoug posted...

They are shown to be racists onscreen, which is typically considered a trait of "bad people".

If you notice, the Alliance has a bunch of different types of aliens working for them. The Empire typically only has humanoid stormtroopers, and humans giving orders in leadership. The Emperor is also a "human" force user and seeks to kill all other Jedi only having a selected heir.

Sometimes they stoop to using bounty hunters, but they are always visibly disgusted to associate with those kinds of people. Other than blowing up planets to make a point, which they do in the ST too, they don't deep dive into their ideals, just that they are "bad".

Good.

Humans should ALWAYS come first.

I've BEEN pro-empire since day one. Plus, I can't stand those lame Wookies nor the shitty Ewoks.

---

IdiotMachine posted...

I dont remember Alderaan. Can you elaborate?

Vader and Tarkin tell Leia they'll blow up Alderaan unless Leia tells them where the Rebel base is.

Leia lies, Alderaan goes boom.

The Empire employs a Sherman-style "Scorched Earth" strategy to end the war quickly. You could reasonably argue that it parallels America's use of the nuclear bomb in WWII.

While the Empire from a purely lore perspective obviously is straight-up evil, their tactics do actually have rationality behind them. What's one planet compared to an entire galaxy in civil war? If the Rebel Alliance had surrendered at that point, the Empire would've been able to argue that they ultimately saved lives.


---

You don't remember an entire planet being blown up in episode 4?

DarkRoast posted...

We're talking about a man who digitally edited Episode IV to make Greedo shoot first.

I'm not saying he's talented.

Especially after the Iraq/Afghanistan wars, there is an argument to be made for "get in, get the job done quickly and completely" warfare.

Long, drawn-out wars turn into wars of attrition like World War I - resulting in more suffering, death and collateral damage than just glassing a place and ending it before it begins.

Thus, Alderaan. Of course, the actual intent was just to show how heartless and frankly kind of comically dumb the Empire is, but realistically it's actually a rather clever gambit to end a galactic civil war that would otherwise drain resources and lives.


---

Bit of a superfluous argument in terms of actual governance other than the technical form of government. But Lucas was always going for the more spiritual and good/evil thing anyway.

---

DarkRoast posted...

Vader and Tarkin tell Leia they'll blow up Alderaan unless Leia tells them where the Rebel base is.

Leia lies, Alderaan goes boom.

The Empire employs a Sherman-style "Scorched Earth" strategy to end the war quickly. You could reasonably argue that it parallels America's use of the nuclear bomb in WWII.

While the Empire from a purely lore perspective obviously is straight-up evil, their tactics do actually have rationality behind them. What's one planet compared to an entire galaxy in civil war? If the Rebel Alliance had surrendered at that point, the Empire would've been able to argue that they ultimately saved lives.

Zikten posted...

You don't remember an entire planet being blown up in episode 4?

Ah. I addressed that though. It was the rebellions fault.

---

I honestly don't understand Palp's endgame. Like he wants to rule everything and be a Sith Lord. Then he does it, but then what? When you're already a space wizard do you really even want the stress of running an entire galaxy?

---

Man, a lot of CE falling for such a weak bait topic. Come on guys, you're better than that.

Jiek_Fafn posted...

I honestly don't understand Palp's endgame. Like he wants to rule everything and be a Sith Lord. Then he does it, but then what? When you're already a space wizard do you really even want the stress of running an entire galaxy?

There's literally never an endgame with the Sith, and at least in the extended lore they are actually aware of the fact that they always end in failure, and that's actually part of being a Sith as well.


---

Jiek_Fafn posted...

I honestly don't understand Palp's endgame. Like he wants to rule everything and be a Sith Lord. Then he does it, but then what? When you're already a space wizard do you really even want the stress of running an entire galaxy?

Yet another reason why the sequel trilogy makes no sense. Also, fuck your spoilers, Palpatine's miraculous return is in the opening crawl of the worst Star Wars film ever made.

---

This crap is never funny or clever.

---

I mean... theyre led by the Sith, who are universally moustache twirlers with Darth *bad thing* for names.

Star Wars isnt complicated, man.

DarkRoast posted...

Vader and Tarkin tell Leia they'll blow up Alderaan unless Leia tells them where the Rebel base is.

Leia lies, Alderaan goes boom.

Worse, they dont even confirm that shes lying until later - they blow up Alderaan just because they want to test the Death Stars super laser, and the planet she tells them the base is on would take them too long to travel to.

All that said TC is obviously trolling so who cares about this topic

---

Didn't the Rebels cause more civil war and anarchy?

I figure the Rebels were like Libertarians.


---

MrToothHasYou posted...

Worse, they dont even confirm that shes lying until later - they blow up Alderaan just because they want to test the Death Stars super laser, and the planet she tells them the base is on would take them too long to travel to.

All that said TC is obviously trolling so who cares about this topic

Pretty sure they said they already knew she was lying.

---

I think thats part of the problem with the entire Star Wars franchise. They just very rarely articulate how bad the empire is supposed to be.

What_ posted...

I think thats part of the problem with the entire Star Wars franchise. They just very rarely articulate how bad the empire is supposed to be.

They simultaneously over-emphasize how evil it is while never really depicting it outside of making Palpatine and Co comic book villains. It's actually kind of weird.

A Star Wars film that actually showed the day-to-day political bureaucracy of the Empire would actually go some way to showing how they were fundamentally rotten to the core.


---

The Empire is cooler than the Rebels

nuff said

DarkRoast posted...

Pretty sure they said they already knew she was lying.

Technically I was wrong - they specifically chose to destroy Alderaan because Dantoine (the planet she names) is too remote to make an effective demonstration aka they wanted the whole galaxy to see what their new weapon was capable of doing. But Tarkin doesnt show any sign of thinking that she is lying:

https://youtu.be/NiITyaa7dPA

---

DarkRoast posted...

They simultaneously over-emphasize how evil it is while never really depicting it outside of making Palpatine and Co comic book villains. It's actually kind of weird.

A Star Wars film that actually showed the day-to-day political bureaucracy of the Empire would actually go some way to showing how they were fundamentally rotten to the core.

Yeah the only focus on individual bad guys and not why the empire itself is evil its very weird. In fact the only time Ive ever really seen it articulated well is in the Mandalorian TV show but thats it.

DarkRoast posted...

Pretty sure they said they already knew she was lying.

Nah.

They were looking for an excuse to show off their new weapon and when Leia said the base was on Dantooine, they decided to blow up Alderaan instead because Dantooine was too insignificant a target to have a psychological impact.

Then later their scout ships return from Dantooine with the news that there's no base there.

---

Honestly, nothing compares to the kind of don't-think-about-it-too-much logic required to accept that a large percentage of the Empire itself was waiting on a planet in the middle of nowhere for seemingly no other reason than to be a deus ex machina.


---

Alderaan is also a peaceful planet that quite literally has no weapons so it's even worse than it sounds.

And Palps' ultimate goal is to live forever as an evil asshole. That's even without the sequel trilogy, dude does not give a shit about the rule of two and passing on his knowledge and is just an actual completely evil character with no redeeming qualities who wants to sit on the throne of the galaxy forever. He doesn't even really give a shit about the Empire apart from the power it provides him.

What_ posted...

Yeah the only focus on individual bad guys and not why the empire itself is evil its very weird. In fact the only time Ive ever really seen it articulated well is in the Mandalorian TV show but thats it.

They're just any oppressive dictatorship, that's about it.

Aside from the obvious surface level nazi imagery, Lucas has said a big influence for the Empire was also the Roman and the British Empire (which is why the imperial officers have english accents).

literally one of the first things you see them do is blow up hundreds of millions of people with the push of a button because someone wont tell them something

---

You mean besides the racism, fascism, slavery and literal genocide on a planetary scale?

---

ultimate reaver posted...

literally one of the first things you see them do is blow up hundreds of millions of people with the push of a button because someone wont tell them something

She actually did tell them. They did it anyways.

IdiotMachine posted...

I dont remember Alderaan. Can you elaborate?

Literally one of the major plot points of the first film. At this point you are either trolling or don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about

---

Not while I'm around.

---

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

You mean besides the racism, fascism, slavery and literal genocide on a planetary scale?

RustyFerret posted...

They're just any oppressive dictatorship, that's about it.

Aside from the obvious surface level nazi imagery, Lucas has said a big influence for the Empire was also the Roman and the British Empire (which is why the imperial officers have english accents).

They were also analogous to the USA itself.

---

Lol this reminded me of people saying that Vergil was right in DmC, authoritarianism is not good people.

https://youtu.be/eT4shwU4Yc4

---