Current Events > Good and bad ways to use RNG in video games

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Everyone loves it and everyone hates it; randomness in games, the stuff you cannot control.

A look at games and their use of randomness:

Mario Party: The kind of random BS. This could be a disaster, but the RNG factor succeeds for two reasons, one being that randomness with friends is fun! Second, the randomness is such utter crap its hilarious. You could work your butt off only to have 10 stars you spent 2 hours working on instantly go to the person in last place.

Mario Party Single Player: Notice how different this is, with people not having many fond memories of single player Mario Party. This is most likely because you have no one to share the random BS with. Now its just frustrating that you can't win a game just because the machine says you can't win, making your decisions feel less rewarding

XCom: The game is known for screwing over your 95% chance, and is good for some funny memes, but in the end it can be considered a flaw. I wager 95% of you have reloaded a save just because it felt unfair your barrel-to-nose distance missed after you spent 10 minutes properly planning everything. There is ironman mode but this leads to more boring play where its all about playing it safe and rarely taking more thrilling risks. A way to circumvent this in modern design tends to be to give the player at least some consolation prize instead of nothing to encourage not just quit.

Morrowind: This is a touchy subject as you have many a die hard fan who will defend Morrowind to the death, but for those who go back and play it will realize how awful landing a direct hit graphics wise doesn't mean you hit it. Its not so much the randomness, but Morrowind does not SHOW the odds. Look at Knights of the Old Republic by comparison. You are full well given what your d20 odds are based on your equipment, and just being able to get a better reason why you miss tends to be less frustration.

Dark Souls: Just imagine if Dark Souls combat had more RNG. Your character failing to roll for example or your weapon dealing 0 damage from time to time.

Slay the Spire: I bring this up because of how well done the randomness is. The game is RNG to hell, from the roguelite paths to shuffling your decks constantly. But why doesn't it feel like RNG? You often get the illusion of choice. You chose the event path even though you didn't know it would be awful. You bought that card even though it never seems to start in your opening hand. You chose the relic that doesn't synergize with anything else you find in the run. And maybe most importantly, enemies are predictable. It may have been impossible to win from the start, but you knew exactly what the enemies would do next turn, which makes it feel more like your fault than the game's fault.

I bring up the illusion of choice a lot in my design writings. An example would be Mass Effect 3 to The Walking Dead video game. Both pretty much have the same conclusion no matter what you do. But The Walking Dead makes it feel like your decisions mattered. Pyre is another great example, even though the game ends the same, it remembers what decisions you had made previously giving it an emotional connection.

For video games themselves the player tends to enjoy themselves more (at least in single player) if you are given a choice even if "the game was rigged from the start", or even if all the choices are bad.

What are your thoughts?

Hey an old face. Do you still play board games a lot? I remember you had a kid and started to fade away. Hows that going?

On topic, you only listed 1 instance where RNG was done well and sounded like you wanted to just rant about the other games.

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KOTOR nuff said. piece of shit game

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Earthbound: ...still murdering Starmen, over and over, trying to get that Sword of Kings to drop.
SOTN: ...still murdering that one dodo, over and over, trying to get a Runesword to drop.
Borderlands 2: ...still murdering Doc Mercry, over and over, trying to get an Infinity to drop.

--Zero- posted...

Hey an old face. Do you still play board games a lot? I remember you had a kid and started to fade away. Hows that going?

On topic, you only listed 1 instance where RNG was done well and sounded like you wanted to just rant about the other games.

I run a game store now. And I think Mario Party does it will just by being over the top. But i feel sooooooooo many developers get it wrong, and just use randomness as a quick solution or feature. roguelikes in particular really seem to have a good feel for it. The binding of isaac alone has, what like a decade of tweaking the RNG factor?

Questionmarktarius posted...

Earthbound: ...still murdering Starmen, over and over, trying to get that Sword of Kings to drop.
SOTN: ...still murdering that one dodo, over and over, trying to get a Runesword to drop.
Borderlands 2: ...still murdering Doc Mercry, over and over, trying to get an Infinity to drop.

I am trying to think of an example where a developer nailed the random loot mechanic in a game.

Hades had something going with having loot be consumables and have multiple uses, so it made the random prizes always a treat. Games nowadays just seem to have drops have the secondary function of just scrapping them for crafting purposes in case you don't get what you want.

Skyrim I feel didn't succeed very well trying to upscale loot.

I can't think of a way to make RNG prizes more tempting, aside from increasing the chances of getting a shiny or infinity each time (but PLEASE increate the rate to save a hundred hours, and reset it when you finally get the awesome prize if needed)

Kerred posted...

I am trying to think of an example where a developer nailed the random loot mechanic in a game.

Ys 7, probably.

Do Disco Elysium!
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I like how it works in XCOM because the strategy of the game becomes all about doing everything possible to minimize the role RNG plays. Sure, it's not fun to miss a shot that has a 90% or more chance of hitting. But that's why you have to put yourself in a position where potentially missing that shot doesn't ruin your whole plan.

And ultimately, good or bad, the RNG is part of the fun. In the mid to late game of XCOM, your soldiers become very powerful. Sometimes when things go awry, it makes for a more interesting experience.

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^ for multiplayer the rng is great, but single player I feel there should be something different than a hit or miss chance. maybe an optional way to play that replaces hit or miss with a guaranteed hit but with a damage modifier (showing the minimum damage you can deal). That way luck is turned into something positive rather than negative.

A prime example is the Meld encouraging you to take turns faster for rewards, which is a great idea! A bad idea is penalizing you for not finishing in enough turns. Gotta love that positive reinforcement.