Current Events > It's kind of interesting to think the generation that fought the Nazis

(+) Yeah! (+)

Probably had values closer to the Nazi's than they would have had with their own countries today in terms of race, sexuality, class, etc.

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Disagree.

My grandma was in her mid 90s when she passed and she did have to consciously work against ingrained racism but she knew it was wrong. But you know the one group she really disliked more than any other?

Germans. I remember my mom telling me about a new neighbor my grandma got and my grandma telling her in tones of disbelief "she's a very nice woman and she's german!"

Also my other granny was one of the most liberal people I ever knew. Thougg she was never in the military.

For that matter my poppa constantly went out of his way to give jobs to minorities and women even at a time when women djs were typically very dislike on the radio.

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What a disgusting and stupid thing to say.

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did you know that eugenics was quite popular in the US back in the 10s/20s/30s?

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Pretty weak bait tbh.

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???????

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monkmith posted...

did you know that eugenics was quite popular in the US back in the 10s/20s/30s?

Thats just the maga crowd and hopefully they'll be gone by the 30s. We can't know the future after all.

>_>

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The generation that fought Nazis gave birth to a generation that embraced Neo-Nazis

now that's irony

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ArchNemo posted...

Probably had values closer to the Nazi's than they would have had with their own countries today in terms of race, sexuality, class, etc.

Seems right.

Edit: I mean in some countries some non-germans helped the NAZIs during their NAZI occupations.

YourLovelyTina posted...

The generation that fought Nazis gave birth to a generation that embraced Neo-Nazis

now that's irony

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darkzero297 posted...

What a disgusting and stupid thing to say.

So you think people from the era of ww2 would be fine with gay marriage? Transgendered people? Black presidents? Abortions?


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You realize a ton of those people made up the voters in 2008 right?

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CanuckCowboy posted...

You realize a ton of those people made up the voters in 2008 right?

You realize homosexuality was still illegal in most places in the world as late as the 60's let alone the idea of gender fluidity and that segregation in the united states didn't end until around the same time?

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It's kinda important when discussing this kind of subject, to keep in mind that the war was against "a threat to the US", not against nazis in and of themself. Nazis just happened to be what that threat was.

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ArchNemo posted...

You realize homosexuality was still illegal in most places in the world as late as the 60's let alone the idea of gender fluidity and that segregation in the united states didn't end until around the same time?

You sure do have a weird way of quoting somebody's post and then saying something whole-ass irrelevant in response. What the heck is your point, even?

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ArchNemo posted...

You realize homosexuality was still illegal in most places in the world as late as the 60's let alone the idea of gender fluidity and that segregation in the united states didn't end until around the same time?

You realize that laws aren't an accurate portrayal of public sentiment and that they only change when public sentiment becomes strong enough to necessitate change, right?


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CanuckCowboy posted...

You realize a ton of those people made up the voters in 2008 right?

If my math is right, the youngest age for a WW2 vet would be 81 in 2008. I don't know the exact amount but there's a lot of people between 65 and 81 that... I don't know what the point of this is and I guess I'm just posting because I said "seems right" earlier.

darkzero297 posted...

What a disgusting and stupid thing to say.

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CanuckCowboy posted...

You realize that laws aren't an accurate portrayal of public sentiment and that they only change when public sentiment becomes strong enough to necessitate change, right?

So you think the majority of the people in various parts of the world all took issues with these things, but it took 20+ years to even begin to change and longer to actually have a major impact in perceptions of the majority of the public?

Because even in the 80s and 90s gay people were still considered acceptable targets.

But the generation that fought ww2 was the ideal of liberalism and progressiveness?

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ButteryMales posted...

If my math is right, the youngest age for a WW2 vet would be 81 in 2008. I don't know the exact amount but there's a lot of people between 65 and 81 that... I don't know what the point of this is and I guess I'm just posting because I said "seems right" earlier.

I mean old people are most likely to vote and many ww2 vets were still alive so I'm assuming they made up a decent amount of the votes.

I dont have stats to back me up and I dont know how they typically voted but yeah... I dint know where I'm going with this either.

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ArchNemo posted...

So you think the majority of the people in various parts of the world all took issues with these things, but it took 20+ years to even begin to change and longer to actually have a major impact in perceptions of the majority of the public?

Because even in the 80s and 90s gay people were still considered acceptance targets.

But the generation that fought ww2 was the ideal of liberalism and progressiveness?

Because if you aren't a leading beacon of progressiveness and liberal thinking you are "close a nazi"?

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CanuckCowboy posted...

Because if you aren't a leading beacon of progressiveness and liberal thinking you are "close a nazi"?

I didn't say close to a Nazi. What I said was closer to their values than to ours.

How do you think a transgendered person would have been viewed in the 1940s in most of the world? People geared a lot more to the highly anti-gay views of the Nazi regime than to the pro-lgbt views we have today.

I don't even know how this is a hot take. It was more a comment on how far we've come.

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Nope.

Having biases and a lack if understanding is still not even close to being a nazi. Unless you're suggesting they were so intolerant that they'd support the murders of all those people?

Otherwise they're still exponentially closer to us than nazis.

This was an incredibly poor way to make a "we've come so far" post.

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Not too mention something like 6 or 7 percent of north American soldiers fighting abroad were black. And id assume Jewish people made up a significant number as well.

So...

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Troll topic?

Something sort of relevant I saw on the politics board. There's a town that barely removed a noose from their icon and people are protesting just like the South Park episode.

There were gay nazis.

Also, communists historically thought homosexuality was evidence of late stage capitalism.

CanuckCowboy posted...

I mean old people are most likely to vote and many ww2 vets were still alive so I'm assuming they made up a decent amount of the votes.

I dont have stats to back me up and I dont know how they typically voted but yeah... I dint know where I'm going with this either.

https://www.infoplease.com/us/population/population-65-years-and-over-age-1990-2000-and-2010

In 2010, according to this, 5.3% of the US population was over the age of 80. US population in 2010 comes up as 309.3m. That makes just under 16.4m people over 80.

https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/2008presidential_election-32018.pdf

According to this, voter participation for 75+ was 67.8%, closest I can quickly find to 80+. That gives us roughly 11.1m. There were 131,313,820 votes in 2008. That gives us roughly 8.5% of the voting population being 80+, which is way higher than I was expecting when I decided to actually look for numbers.

Tenlaar posted...

https://www.infoplease.com/us/population/population-65-years-and-over-age-1990-2000-and-2010

In 2010, according to this, 5.3% of the US population was over the age of 80. US population in 2010 comes up as 309.3m. That makes just under 16.4m people over 80.

https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/2008presidential_election-32018.pdf

According to this, voter participation for 75+ was 67.8%, closest I can quickly find to 80+. That gives us roughly 11.1m. There were 131,313,820 votes in 2008. That gives us roughly 8.5% of the voting population being 80+, which is way higher than I was expecting when I decided to actually look for numbers.

This worked out well for my post honestly.

I was thinking around 5 or 6%. Which is still substantial although again I admit its a moot point given that a majority may have voted against Obama.

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CanuckCowboy posted...

Nope.

Having biases and a lack if understanding is still not even close to being a nazi. Unless you're suggesting they were so intolerant that they'd support the murders of all those people?

Otherwise they're still exponentially closer to us than nazis.

This was an incredibly poor way to make a "we've come so far" post.

How do you think people were so easily swayed to Nazism in the first place? Yeah there was violent coercion and propoganda but people seem to forget they were also commonly held beliefs turned up to 11.

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Disagree. My maternal grandfather fought in Italy, North Africa and Japan, and didnt have values like they did.

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RustyFerret posted...

There were gay nazis.

Also, communists historically thought homosexuality was evidence of late stage capitalism.

There was one prominent gay Nazi and he was purged.

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It's always interesting how some people think the evil bad guys will consider them "one of the good ones". They get used by those in power until they're not needed and then they get the same fate as the rest.

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Not all of them



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CanuckCowboy posted...

Thats just the maga crowd and hopefully they'll be gone by the 30s. We can't know the future after all.

>_>

That's not true unfortunately. Plenty of Gen X, Boomers and Millennials believe in that nonsense and will be here to continue to raise ignorant children.

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ArchNemo posted...

How do you think people were so easily swayed to Nazism in the first place? Yeah there was violent coercion and propoganda but people seem to forget they were also commonly held beliefs turned up to 11.

I dont see what that has to do with anything.

Are you claiming ww2 vets were all just nazis who didn't reach full nazi maturity?

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Only if you're the special kind of moron who wantonly calls people they disagree with nazis

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KStateKing17 posted...

That's not true unfortunately. Plenty of Gen X, Boomers and Millennials believe in that nonsense and will be here to continue to raise ignorant children.

I wasn't saying that to imply it was only older people. Just to take a dig at the maga crowd and imply hopes they'd move on and grow up (and die in some cases i guess).

Unfortunately you're right of course.

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CanuckCowboy posted...

I dont see what that has to do with anything.

Are you claiming ww2 vets were all just nazis who didn't reach full nazi maturity?

No, what I'm claiming is they were fighting for their values, many of which were ignorant, racist, homophobic, etc but still better than genocide.

They weren't fighting for gay marriage, the right to choose your own gender identity, equality for all races and a majority of them wouldn't have fought for those values and would likely have actively fought against them. If not violently, certainly in any other way possible.

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So essentially....

Solid Snake07 posted...

Only if you're the special kind of moron who wantonly calls people they disagree with nazis

If you genuinely just meant to make a point about progress you went about it in a very poor way and didn't express yourself well at all.


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CanuckCowboy posted...

Disagree.

My grandma was in her mid 90s when she passed and she did have to consciously work against ingrained racism but she knew it was wrong. But you know the one group she really disliked more than any other?

Germans. I remember my mom telling me about a new neighbor my grandma got and my grandma telling her in tones of disbelief "she's a very nice woman and she's german!"

Also my other granny was one of the most liberal people I ever knew. Thougg she was never in the military.

For that matter my poppa constantly went out of his way to give jobs to minorities and women even at a time when women djs were typically very dislike on the radio.

"she wasn't racist, she hated germans" is a weird ass take

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MSCMC posted...

"she wasn't racist, she hated germans" is a weird ass take

I mean she lived through German bombing raids on her home. Also that wasn't the take there so maybe don't be dumb.

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CanuckCowboy posted...

So essentially....

If you genuinely just meant to make a point about progress you went about it in a very poor way and didn't express yourself well at all.

I'm not entirely sure how you don't understand that views closer to theirs than ours doesn't mean "they would have killed all of those people if they had a choice."

Canada is closer to the UK than to Australia but both are pretty far away.


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Because they still aren't, in any way or stretch of the imagination, closer to theirs than ours.

I thought that was clear.

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Nazis learned eugenics from us so probably

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ArchNemo posted...

No, what I'm claiming is they were fighting for their values, many of which were ignorant, racist, homophobic, etc but still better than genocide.

I'm sure most WW2 vets thought they were fighting for the democratic ideals of their country and protecting their families against a dictatorial alliance that could potentially take over the world, even though the application of those democratic ideals weren't reaching to modern perceptions of what they should be.

RustyFerret posted...

I'm sure most WW2 vets thought they were fighting for the democratic ideals of their country and protecting their families against a dictatorial alliance that could potentially take over the world, even though the application of those democratic ideals weren't reaching to modern perceptions of what they should be.

This.

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CanuckCowboy posted...

Because they still aren't, in any way or stretch of the imagination, closer to theirs than ours.

I thought that was clear.

Today, in 2021, coming out as transgendered is still liable to get you murdered in far too many places because people still view it as wrong.

As late 1960s coming out as gay would get you imprisoned, or at the very least ruin your life, career, place in the community, etc. Or simply killed. And aside from murder being illegal it would still be considered not a big deal. Hell, at the beginning of the AIDs pandemic people didn't care because the idea was it only affected gay people.

So explain to me how people in the 40s would have been more sympathetic?


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ArchNemo posted...

Today, in 2021, coming out as transgendered is still liable to get you murdered in far too many places because people still view it as wrong.

As late 1960s coming out as gay would get you imprisoned, or at the very least ruin your life, career, place in the community, etc. Or simply killed. And aside from murder being illegal it would still be considered not a big deal. Hell, at the beginning of the AIDs pandemic people didn't care because the idea was it only affected gay people.

So explain to me how people in the 40s would have been more sympathetic?

Cats can look after themselves and you can leave them alone if you have to be away for several days so how are dogs better?

Thats a barely exaggerated example of how little your response had to do with the point you're trying to make.

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CanuckCowboy posted...

Cats can look after themselves and you can leave them alone if you have to be away for several days so how are dogs better?

Thats a barely exaggerated example of how little your response had to do with the point you're trying to make.

Okay, my point is that a generation that thought murdering, ruining, imprisoning, and allowing to die through disease and thats only talking about the sexuality issue is closer to the Nazi ideal than a generation that is actively figtinging for all people to be treated equally and and all lives to be valued equally.

Simple enough?

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