Current Events > What if religion isn't fake?

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what if you'll really go to hell and burn for eternity if you don't believe in God?

would it not be safer to just proclaim you belief in some supernatural entity, spend like just 1 minute to pray each day and be assured you'll go to heaven than to be straight up athiest?

I'm not religious myself but seriously, think about it.

'BTW this isn't related to the previous topic but I had this convo with a rather level-headed Christian friend. He told me, even if I dont believe, what's the harm in choosing TO believe?? Isn't the more logical option to actually just take the less risky option? Because truth be told, we really DON'T KNOW whether an afterlife exists or not. If you're an athiest, you're actually believing in your version of the afterlife (that you just stop existing).

But what if we're wrong?
Nothing to lose anyway. Maybe just some sad stuff like having to abstain from sex/masturbation if you're that horny. But I mean, really, it's not like you're that much worse off or restricted in terms of a religion like Christianity. Most of the ten commandments can be easily followed so long as you dont commit a crime. I think that's also why Christianity is so popular. People can widely interpret it and aren't so constrained in their everyday lives by it.

do you mean like christianity/abrahamic religion

cuz like what if buddhism is real and you come back as a fly.

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Just be a good person TC and you'll be fine.

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Back_Stabbath posted...

do you mean like christianity/abrahamic religion

cuz like what if buddhism is real and you come back as a fly.

then so be it. Better than taking the risk that you'll just stop existing after you die, no? Unless that's what you prefer compared to going to a heaven

SpaceBear_ posted...

Just be a good person TC and you'll be fine.

sorry. If hell exists, someone like Bill Gates will still go there

Mackorov posted...

what if you'll really go to hell and burn for eternity if you don't believe in God?

would it not be safer to just proclaim you belief in some supernatural entity, spend like just 1 minute to pray each day and be assured you'll go to heaven than to be straight up athiest?

I'll take my chances that god either does not exist, or if I am wrong, he is not so malevolent as to actually condemn me to an eternity of torture for the crime of not believing he exists when he provided no convincing evidence. Cause holy fuck if that isn't the most evil thing I can think of.

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Mackorov posted...

what's the harm in choosing TO believe??

I don't think you get to choose if you actually believe. You just get to choose whether or not to claim that you do. If God is real, you aren't going to be able to deceive Him.

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theres so many different takes on god/the afterlife. what if you dedicated your life to abrahamic god but it turns out belobog/chernobog and the slavic pantheon were the ones behind earth. betting on any religion is just as unsafe as athiesm /shrug

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Even it were (its not) Im not lowering my standards for a shot at an afterlife. I fundamentally dont agree with a lot of religious values and Im staying Lil Nas X on this biz and paying attention to the fact it now does more hurt than any good whatsoever.

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shockthemonkey posted...

This is Pascals Wager, and Pascals Wager is stupid because an omnipotent God would know whether you actually believe or if youre faking it

Back_Stabbath posted...

theres so many different takes on god/the afterlife. what if you dedicated your life to abrahamic god but it turns out belobog/chernobog and the slavic pantheon were the ones behind earth. betting on any religion is just as unsafe as athiesm /shrug

And more seriously, these.

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Even if God is real, hell is something the church made up. The Bible doesnt mention it at all.

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Ah yes, Pascals Wager or whatever it's called. Kinda dumb

I like the quote most often attributed to Marcus Aurelius. Something like "live a good life. If the gods are just, they will reward you. If they are unjust, they aren't worth worshiping anyway. If they don't exist then it doesn't matter"

Something like that

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The threat of pain is only s thing because we fear death as the result. Eternal pain makes no sense because you can't die. Also why would you have a physical body or mind in a place outside of nature anyway.

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If you're interested in this idea TC read up on Pascal's wager. Some issues:
Would you really be able to decieve God in this way?
If someone is serious about their non believing then rather than seeing it as giving up little for potentially huge reward; they would be giving up much in return for nothing.

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Knowing what earth is like, our god is probably a drunken fat slob kicking puppies

Which god would that be closest to

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imagine being a "loving god" that punishes people for choosing the wrong religion with everlasting torment

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nfearurspecimn posted...

imagine being a "loving god" that punishes people for choosing the wrong religion with everlasting torment

That's because he loves you so much though

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Smackems posted...

That's because he loves you so much though

uh, no

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Imagine being an adult that believes in God. I still find it completely hard to fathom how it is so prolific.

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How do I know which religion is the real one dumb dumb?

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But what if there's a god who actively wants you to not believe in him, and sends people to hell for doing so?

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i'd be up for whatever adventure i'll get, maybe god kidnapped a pretty princess and i have to go through hell to save her


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Trumble posted...

But what if there's a god who actively wants you to not believe in him, and sends people to hell for doing so?

Ah man that sounds like me if i was God

"Leave me the fuck alone or I'm putting you in a volcano. Trying to play Ys for fucks sake"

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Mackorov posted...

what if you'll really go to hell and burn for eternity if you don't believe in God?

would it not be safer to just proclaim you belief in some supernatural entity, spend like just 1 minute to pray each day and be assured you'll go to heaven than to be straight up athiest?

You can't force yourself to believe in something if you don't believe in it

Fuck God if he sends people to hell just cause we have doubts since he gives no proof

SpaceBear_ posted...

Just be a good person TC and you'll be fine.

this

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Is Hell even in the Bible?

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Thus I Hail Ticket Oak as the one true god.



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If God is all powerful/knowing then he knows who is truly worthy of heaven regardless of what you do, say or claim to believe and fake believers likely get kicked to the side anyway. And if an all powerful deity does require their ego being stroked?

Fuck 'em.

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TicketOak posted...

This exact train of thought has been with me for a very long time. If I ever bring this up to my family and ask for an explanation.. I probably would be... I dont even know. It would be very bad though

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The only god I pray to is Lady Palutena



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DepreceV2 posted...

This exact train of thought has been with me for a very long time. If I ever bring this up to my family and ask for an explanation.. I probably would be... I dont even know. It would be very bad though

it is imo a really weak train of thought because it relies on vacuous/nebulous words like all-powerful

Problem of evil has been a bad argument for a while now. Check out Alvin Plantinga, etc

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Funkydog posted...

If God is all powerful/knowing then he knows who is truly worthy of heaven regardless of what you do, say or claim to believe and fake believers likely get kicked to the side anyway. And if an all powerful deity does require their ego being stroked?

Fuck 'em.

yep and it is my view the Bible says the same thing tbh

most ppl just never get enough of a holistic view of the text to see the broad themes

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Id rather burn in hell than worship a guy who would burn you in hell for not believing in him. He can go fuck himself

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SSJCAT posted...

hell

DepreceV2 posted...

Is Hell even in the Bible?

Yes, it's referenced plenty of times though most verses are centered in Revelations and Matthews. I googled and there aren't many articles that give this alternate viewpoint about hell. I read that one from Medium and the author wasn't that substantial in his claims either. I think you may be more of talking about the religious sect called Universalism, where adherents believe everyone will be saved end of the day.

TicketOak posted...

Thus I Hail Ticket Oak as the one true god.

I find the Epicurean paradox has flaws to it though. This is also known as the 'problem of evil' but it's usually brought up by people that don't know the Christian doctrine.
These people listen to pastors making sermons day-by-day preaching about sin here and there... you'd think they never think about this question??

The only correct question is to skip all the way to the end where it asks 'Could god have created a universe with free will but without evil?'
The answer then points back to God being not all-powerful if the answer is No.

However, this already assumes the definition of 'all-powerful' and mixes the definition up with 'understandable'. The correct answer a logical Christian would give you (which unfortunately most aren't...) is that the answer is 'I don't know'. Yes, it sounds like a horse s*** answer to escape from the issue but that's really the gist of it.

Christians don't know why God did what he did. Some believe he did it as a test. Others believe having free will is God's gift to mankind and sin is a repercussion of that. The common belief however, is that God did it to showcase his salvation to the world. Yes, I know...sounds stupid. let evil thrive, so you have a whole story to go on with about a good vs evil fight... but that's that.

I could argue with you if evil is even something that exists without good as a moral opposite but that may be too philo. And yeah, you could then say God is the one who created the whole concept of morality in the first place then. Mindblown much?

shockthemonkey posted...

This is Pascals Wager, and Pascals Wager is stupid because an omnipotent God would know whether you actually believe or if youre faking it

To this answer, I'd say if you're scared of hell enough to choose the less risky option of believing, I'm pretty sure that's your belief in the religion right there already, mate

pure_temper posted...

Alvin Plantinga

I looked a little bit into this. I guess his argument is that God cant create a world with free will and exclude evil from it. That is logical for sure but I have questions following that up. If that is the case then why create a world with free will to begin with? If you can create a world with no evil but limit the free will of people then why not do that? Why create a world with all this suffering?

pure_temper posted...

it is imo a really weak train of thought because it relies on vacuous/nebulous words like all-powerful

Also, speaking on this. I feel like this would be a good point if there were no verses in the Bible directly referencing this very thing.

Matthew 19:26
But Jesus looked at them and said, With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

Luke 1:37
For nothing will be impossible with God.

Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure.

Jeremiah 32:17
Ah, Lord God! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for you.

That is just a small sample of God being referenced as all powerful in the Bible. That is something that cant be ignored. Doing so would mean that the Bible is wrong, or at least some of it is.

I think a reasonable explanation is that the Bible has been altered so much over the centuries from the original that we truly have a hard time knowing what God is really without the influence and control the others are trying to put on people by editing the Bible.

If the true Bible is only the Old Testament then I have issues with that as well. The idea of making someone kill their son to prove they are loyal is just cruel

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imo it's obvious god exists

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Mackorov posted...

Yes, it's referenced plenty of times though most verses are centered in Revelations and Matthews. I googled and there aren't many articles that give this alternate viewpoint about hell. I read that one from Medium and the author wasn't that substantial in his claims either. I think you may be more of talking about the religious sect called Universalism, where adherents believe everyone will be saved end of the day.

i believe the entire message of the Bible is that all people are by default saved or going to heaven if they are good people

read Romans

the religion one has doesnt matter, what matters is 1) if you follow the shared morality people have (dont murder, dont steal, etc) and 2) respond favorably to the amount of revelation given to you as an individual

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pure_temper posted...

i believe the entire message of the Bible is that all people are by default saved or going to heaven if they are good people

read Romans

the religion one has doesnt matter, what matters is 1) if you follow the shared morality people have (dont murder, dont steal, etc) and 2) respond favorably to the amount of revelation given to you as an individual

Really? Interesting. I should read that


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DepreceV2 posted...

I looked a little bit into this. I guess his argument is that God cant create a world with free will and exclude evil from it. That is logical for sure but I have questions following that up. If that is the case then why create a world with free will to begin with? If you can create a world with no evil but limit the free will of people then why not do that? Why create a world with all this suffering?

if we could create AI too, we would

in fact we are already trying to

and the Christian view is really just that God has already solved the suffering in the world by making Heaven for the ppl who get there, and our perception of time just has to catch up

for example, an analogy would be that God would just be the programmer at the computer running a command to solve some bug. From his point of view it is compiling and almost done and he went off to get coffee, and we live in CPU-time so it seems like ages until we get to Heaven. Etc.

DepreceV2 posted...

Also, speaking on this. I feel like this would be a good point if there were no verses in the Bible directly referencing this very thing.

Matthew 19:26
But Jesus looked at them and said, With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

Luke 1:37
For nothing will be impossible with God.

Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure.

Jeremiah 32:17
Ah, Lord God! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for you.

That is just a small sample of God being referenced as all powerful in the Bible. That is something that cant be ignored. Doing so would mean that the Bible is wrong, or at least some of it is.

those verses basically say that God can do whatever can be done

a square circle or a married bachelor are just contradictory words that dont mean anything. So we wouldnt expect an all-powerful God to make sense of nonsense. That just doesnt compile.

free-willed or semi-willed beings without access to choice is also a contradiction. And if suffering and evil have an expiration date already because of Heaven, can we really blame God or use evil as an argument against his existence? That strikes me as silly to do tbh

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It's just as likely there is a trickster god who throws all the believers in hell and lets the atheists into heaven because he thinks it's funny. Literally the exact same probability.

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DepreceV2 posted...

Really? Interesting. I should read that

yeah its my serious view that it does. The problem is that most people never read and retain enough of the text in their head to have a holistic view of the entire story

part of that problem is that some people are extremist purists who rely on really old translations like King James Version which is awful. I recommend The Message, its very accessible and reads like a modern text

ive read a lot of translations and its my
favorite one

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So which of the thousands of gods should I be worshiping?

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ssjevot posted...

It's just as likely there is a trickster god who throws all the believers in hell and lets the atheists into heaven because he thinks it's funny. Literally the exact same probability.

i think the probability changes when we look at human progress

why would an evil god allow any human progress at all?


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