Current Events > 13th official Melee Tier List, updated for the first time in nearly 6 years

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.pgstats.com/articles/super-smash-bros-melee-13th-official-tier-list-character-rankings



this is with wobbling legal btw

---

I'm surprised that Falco only dipped to 4th.

---

ThePieReborn posted...

I'm surprised that Falco only dipped to 4th.

basically no top player would put him lower than that, whereas a few would put him higher

---

Post all twelve tier list images

sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

Post all twelve tier list images

you can have this instead
https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSBM_tier_lists_(NTSC)

---

biggest surprise to me is mewtwo


---

kirby rise up

---

My boy Fox still #1

---

wtf Kirby isn't worst anymore

Sakurai be praised!

---

lil bump

---

my two favorite characters are garbage

why does it sting to find out lol i haven't played melee in like 15+ years

---

Eyeratosthenes posted...

my two favorite characters are garbage

why does it sting to find out lol i haven't played melee in like 15+ years

which ones?

---

Ganon and Link, boyo

---

Eyeratosthenes posted...

Ganon and Link, boyo

if it makes you feel any better, there's a ganon main in the top 100 and a fox main who uses link sometimes

---

I still amuses me that Zelda can go from bottom tier to top tier in the blink of an eye.

"Oh, you thought you were dealing with a wimpy princess with lame spells? Well now it's SHEIK TIME, suckas!"

---

Choco posted...

if it makes you feel any better, there's a ganon main in the top 100 and a fox main who uses link sometimes

Level 9 Ganondorf is also a terror in 2v2.

---

YourLovelyTina posted...

I still amuses me that Zelda can go from bottom tier to top tier in the blink of an eye.

"Oh, you thought you were dealing with a wimpy princess with lame spells? Well now it's SHEIK TIME, suckas!"

Zelda may be bad, but she can always take pride in knowing she has the best move in Smash history. Just press down B and watch yourself skyrocket up the tier list

---

one last bump

---

nvm they released a community tier list too
https://www.pgstats.com/articles/over-1-000-melee-community-members-rank-the-characters

---

Wait, why is Kirby so low? I remember playing this as a kid and you could just suck the enemy up and then spit them off the edge for an instant KO.

LoDsdeath posted...

Wait, why is Kirby so low? I remember playing this as a kid and you could just suck the enemy up and then spit them off the edge for an instant KO.

Low priority on moves, no range on those moves, slow on ground and in the air, light as fuck, and all of the "Kirbicides" can be buttonmashed out of. And people have had 20 years to git gud at button mashing.

---

BRB Maining Bowser.

Also what the hell is wobbling?
---

Falcon above Peach?? Is it because only a retired player got such great Peach results?

---

oof Falco

---

Doe posted...

Falcon above Peach?? Is it because only a retired player got such great Peach results?

Armada was just that good. Falcon has always been better than Peach

---

Captain_Qwark posted...

What are the differences between fox and falco outside of their neutral B gun attack?

Fox's options and matchup spread are just that much better

---

cawmaster5 posted...

Armada was just that good. Falcon has always been better than Peach

reminder that Jigglypuff's placement is likewise carried by Hungrybox

---

Captain_Qwark posted...

What are the differences between fox and falco outside of their neutral B gun attack?

a ton of their moves have different properties, knockback angles, strengths, etc. like, more than you can really summarize concisely. the key points (imo) though are:

fox's down-b knocks away, falco's knocks straight up
fox's dair is a multihit drill kick with little knockback, falco's is a single hit powerful spike
fox's up-b and side-b go way further

just watch a bit of footage of high level players playing them and you'll see the difference pretty quickly I suspect.

Duncanwii posted...

Also what the hell is wobbling?

an ice climbers infnite you can do if you have both climbers near each other and land a grab

---

Captain_Qwark posted...

What are the differences between fox and falco outside of their neutral B gun attack?

Almost everything, actually.

Fox's Up smash and up air are legendary, broken kill moves that give him an advantage on stages with lower ceilings. Falco's versions of these moves are unimpressive. Falco does have a stronger Forward Smash but in Melee a good Up Smash is a better asset.

Fox is way faster than Falco in terms of movement. Fox has a much farther recovery.

Fox's reflector (Shine) is a spike move that sends people downwards. Very deadly when combined with his speed. Falco's Shine sends people up. With the addition of Falco's down air, which is basically the best spike in the game, Falco can "pillar", which is where he repeatedly shines people up, dairs them, and drops down to repeat for enormous damage.

Fox's laser just pressures and lets him force characters to approach. Falco's laser is better though because by canceling the end lag by landing right when the shot fires, he can approach people while being protected by a hitbox.

Falco's biggest problem is Jigglypuff, in practical results Falco just doesn't beat the Puff. She outmaneuvers him. Marth and Fox can beat puff though. Thus the 1-4 order

---

Duncanwii posted...

BRB Maining Bowser.

Also what the hell is wobbling?

If you get hit in melee, you are in "hit stun" and frozen in place, and you cannot break out of a grab while in hit stun. If Ice Climbers grab you, if they tap the A button at a certain rhythm to pummel (not even hard to do) since there are 2 of them, they will hit you in such a pattern that you are forever in hit stun and can never break out of the grab, so they can pummel all the way to 999%. Basically, if you ever get grabbed by IC's, it is probably death, no matter what % you are at.

Puff is way overrated IMO, Fox/Marth/Falco are top 3, Puff is only carried by HBox. She should be below Falcon.

---

Doe posted...

Almost everything, actually.

Fox's Up smash and up air are legendary, broken kill moves that give him an advantage on stages with lower ceilings. Falco's versions of these moves are unimpressive. Falco does have a stronger Forward Smash but in Melee a good Up Smash is a better asset.

Fox is way faster than Falco in terms of movement. Fox has a much farther recovery.

Fox's reflector (Shine) is a spike move that sends people downwards. Very deadly when combined with his speed. Falco's Shine sends people up. With the addition of Falco's down air, which is basically the best spike in the game, Falco can "pillar", which is where he repeatedly shines people up, dairs them, and drops down to repeat for enormous damage.

Fox's laser just pressures and lets him force characters to approach. Falco's laser is better though because by canceling the end lag by landing right when the shot fires, he can approach people while being protected by a hitbox.

Fox's speed, recovery, and kill moves make him better. Falco's biggest problem is Jigglypuff, in practical results Falco just doesn't beat the Puff. She outmaneuvers him.

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

If you get hit in melee, you are in "hit stun" and frozen in place, and you cannot break out of a grab while in hit stun. If Ice Climbers grab you, if they tap the A button at a certain rhythm to pummel (not even hard to do) since there are 2 of them, they will hit you in such a pattern that you are forever in hit stun and can never break out of the grab, so they can pummel all the way to 999%. Basically, if you ever get grabbed by IC's, it is probably death, no matter what % you are at.

Puff is way overrated IMO, Fox/Marth/Falco are top 3, Puff is only carried by HBox. She should be below Falcon.

*looks at math and technical explanations*

...



---

Melee is trash

---

BudDupree48 posted...

Melee is trash

Steelers fan post.

---

DrizztLink posted...

*looks at math and technical explanations*

...

---

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

The exact reference I was thinking but I couldn't find the comic.

---

ThePieReborn posted...

Low priority on moves, no range on those moves, slow on ground and in the air, light as fuck, and all of the "Kirbicides" can be buttonmashed out of. And people have had 20 years to git gud at button mashing.

really, pro Melee players have gotten the game's mechanics and physics down to a fucking science

Kirby got hit hard by the nerf hammer after dominating SSB64. So fucking light and slow and pretty much all of his moves are overruled by the other fighters' attacks

---

Kirby's kinda awful even outside pro-level play. His swallow and stone slam work at very casual levels, but are almost unusable with a small bit of practice. It's like learning wall jumps in a 3D Mario, looks hard at first but ultimately pretty basic.
His kit is pretty bad. Even some of his good attacks are minus on hit (meaning your opponent can move before you can when you hit them), he's slow, has awkward ranged attacks, poor combos, easily combo'd, and light weight. He really feels like a Dan or Roll character, just about all of his attributes are glaringly bad.

Anyway, like the list. Obviously Mango and Zain inspired some movement (even though Falco dropped). Seeing more Falcons is always a good thing. We'll see how hbox does when live tournaments are back.

---