Current Events > To reach Bezos' net worth while working the minimum wage...

(+) Yeah! (+)

ZeldaMutant posted...

Poor people, meanwhile, risk crippling financial damage from health care or car repairs constantly.

thats only in the USA, which is already established as pretty fuckin dumb, the healthcare system that is

Broseph_Stalin posted...

You still have to provide value.

Bezos' net worth is just the estimated value of stock he owns.
Amazon stock is worthless if the company isn't successful.
The company is successful because it provides such a large consumer surplus to people.

You do realize you can own stock in a company without ever providing anything of value beyond your money....right?

Capitalism is NOT a zero-sum game.

It literally is. Wealth and resources aren't created from literally nothing. They HAVE to come from somewhere else.

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Join a trade.

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As someone who did literally everything a capitalist system tells you to do in order to become successful - worked extremely hard in school, went to medical school, paid off all my loans, invested my money, I have one thing to say:

There is literally no way to get ahead unless you are either extremely lucky or you are born into wealth. Yes, I'm not in debt. Yes, I can buy basic material things. But there will never be a point in my life I can afford the kinds of things a wealthy person can, from a luxurious retirement to exclusive goods.

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DarkRoast posted...

As someone who did literally everything a capitalist system tells you to do in order to become successful - worked extremely hard in school, went to medical school, paid off all my loans, invested my money, I have one thing to say:

There is literally no way to get ahead unless you are either extremely lucky or you are born into wealth. Yes, I'm not in debt. Yes, I can buy basic material things. But there will never be a point in my life I can afford the kinds of things a wealthy person can, from a luxurious retirement to exclusive goods.

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Lots of economically illiterate people here

"Obviously you're not working hard enough!"

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pure_temper posted...

considering the number of people who would otherwise squander those 4 years on a worthless degree, its excellent advice

it should be about developing into someone who provides value in what is in demand

and then you make a lot more than min wage

How does your advice help someone who doesn't have the money to go to school? Or someone that's already paid their dues and still can't find work due to an oversaturated job market?

Poverty and income inequality doesn't exist in a bubble. There's a reason these things are happening and it has nothing to do with people pursuing "useless" degrees.

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DarkRoast posted...

As someone who did literally everything a capitalist system tells you to do in order to become successful - worked extremely hard in school, went to medical school, paid off all my loans, invested my money, I have one thing to say:

There is literally no way to get ahead unless you are either extremely lucky or you are born into wealth.

I dont know about extremely lucky but Ive built my wealth by being better than my opponents and I started from nothing, luck does play a role but skills are certainly more valueable

Im far from billionaire though but I feel like Im quite ahead, there are lots of opportunities to make money, having a concentional job with a salary is the most inefficient way

that said I think people like bezos are on the luckiest end of the bell curve

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

It literally is. Wealth and resources aren't created from literally nothing. They HAVE to come from somewhere else.

It comes from bartering. Person A has x material. Person B has y material. Both want some of each others material so they trade with each other. Bartering is literally capitalism.

DarkRoast posted...

The next level of thinking is when you realize the entire concept of economic systems is a mechanism by which a select few hold power, and that class conflict is one of many ways they keep you distracted from that realization.

You're thinking of political systems. Economic systems are designed to address the scarcity problem. Economics itself is really the study of scarcity.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

You do realize you can own stock in a company without ever providing anything of value beyond your money....right?

Money... is value.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

It literally is. Wealth and resources aren't created from literally nothing. They HAVE to come from somewhere else.

You're confusing the free market with economic systems without consensual transactions.

if we see it from a material standpoint literally everything is a zero sum game

ROOTFayth posted...

I dont know about extremely lucky but Ive built my wealth by being better than my opponents and I started from nothing, luck does play a role but skills are certainly more valueable

Im far from billionaire though but I feel like Im quite ahead, there are lots of opportunities to make money, having a concentional job with a salary is the most inefficient way

that said I think people like bezos are on the luckiest end of the bell curve

That's the thing though, we live in a world that makes you think you're ahead until you sit back and ask yourself what exactly you're ahead in.

Because even when you are successful in ways people can only dream of, what you ultimately realize is that success comes at a cost, and often the cost is the very thing you thought the success would bring you.

The people who don't bear that cost are the ones who are already wealthy, and the influx of wealth is such that they don't have to worry about it anymore. And the fact is, there's really no way to get there unless you're lucky or already extremely wealthy.

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Better get something that pays more than the minimum.

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kage_53 posted...

It comes from bartering. Person A has x material. Person B has y material. Both want some of each others material so they trade with each other. Bartering is literally capitalism.

Bartering exists in literally every economic system, capitalist or not lol. The existence of markets isn't capitalism.

Also, how did Person B acquire material y? They certainly didn't just will it into existence.

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DarkRoast posted...

That's the thing though, we live in a world that makes you think you're ahead until you sit back and ask yourself what exactly you're ahead in.

Because even when you are successful in ways people can only dream of, what you ultimately realize is that success comes at a cost, and often the cost is the very thing you thought the success would bring you.

what are we even talking about here? Maslows hierarchy of needs?

I have no idea what blaming luck achieves to be honest, we have no control over that, only over the decisions you make

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Bartering exists in literally every economic system, capitalist or not lol.

It... does not.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

Money... is value.

That's not the point. You mentioned innovation. How is investing money in stocks innovative?

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

That's not the point. You mentioned innovation. How is investing money in stocks innovative?

investing money allows for the person with an innovative idea to act upon said idea

Broseph_Stalin posted...

It... does not.

It does.

Growing apples and trading them with another farmer that grows oranges is bartering, but it isn't necessarily capitalism.

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

That's not the point. You mentioned innovation. How is investing money in stocks innovative?

You are investing in companies that must innovate, what is hard to understand about this?

The profit you may or may not see on that is the incentive to invest in the first place.

ROOTFayth posted...

investing money allows for the person with an innovative idea to act upon said idea

You're funding someone with an innovative idea. You aren't being innovative yourself.

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Bartering exists in literally every economic system, capitalist or not lol. The existence of markets isn't capitalism.

Also, how did Person B acquire material y? They certainly didn't just will it into existence.

It does not exist in socialism. The value of products are driven by supply and demand.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

You are investing in companies that must innovate, what is hard to understand about this?

The profit you may or may not see on that is the incentive to invest in the first place.

The company is being innovative. You yourself are not. Throwing money at an idea that sounds good to you isn't the same as being innovative, nor is it any indication that you yourself have good ideas.

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kage_53 posted...

It does not exist in socialism. The value of products are driven by supply and demand.

Socialism simply dictates who owns the means of production. It doesn't mean there is no bartering happening.

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

You're funding someone with an innovative idea. You aren't being innovative yourself.

you think you shouldnt be rewarded to lend tools to someone so that they attempt to make their innovative ideas a reality?

DarkRoast posted...

There is literally no way to get ahead unless you are either extremely lucky or you are born into wealth. Yes, I'm not in debt. Yes, I can buy basic material things. But there will never be a point in my life I can afford the kinds of things a wealthy person can, from a luxurious retirement to exclusive goods.

So someone who worked themselves up from nothing post HS or from homelessness and reached your position in life somehow arent ahead? Why? How? Because they cant afford a private jet, the latest super cars, Yacht's, or mansions?

When did the American dream become being a millionaire/billionaire or bust?

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ROOTFayth posted...

you think you shouldnt be rewarded to lend tools to someone so that they attempt to make their innovative ideas a reality?

I'm simply demonstrating that the system isn't as entirely meritocratic as you claim.

Having money and common sense does not make you somehow more deserving of your wealth.

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Too bad you can't consumer surplus the cost of living

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

It does.

Growing apples and trading them with another farmer that grows oranges is bartering, but it isn't necessarily capitalism.

You're very confused.

For example, in the USSR if you wanted a new car you would have to apply for one from the government. If you were approved (you wouldn't be) the waitlist was years long and you would end up getting whatever model the government decided to give you. There was no bartering.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

The company is being innovative. You yourself are not. Throwing money at an idea that sounds good to you isn't the same as being innovative, nor is it any indication that you yourself have good ideas.

They're still risking their money to invest. Without the incentive of profit no one would.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

I'm simply demonstrating that the system isn't as entirely meritocratic as you claim.

Having money and common sense does not make you somehow more deserving of your wealth.

unsure where I stand on that, I think making better decisions does mean you deserve more money

Broseph_Stalin posted...

You're very confused.

For example, in the USSR if you wanted a new car you would have to apply for one from the government. If you were approved (you wouldn't be) the waitlist was years long and you would end up getting whatever model the government decided to give you. There was no bartering.

what if someone wanted an apple and you were willing to give him an orange for it, was it legal?

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Socialism simply dictates who owns the means of production. It doesn't mean there is no bartering happening.

It doesnt happen.The government controls the production of goods and services.

Rexdragon125 posted...

Too bad you can't consumer surplus the cost of living

Economics applies there as well.

The cost of housing for example is only rising as fast as it is because local governments intentionally limit the supply of new housing.

ROOTFayth posted...

unsure where I stand on that, I think making better decisions does mean you deserve more money

This is a moot point when the poor don't have the money to make investing decisions at all.

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kage_53 posted...

It doesnt happen.The government controls the production of goods and services.

That's not what socialism is.

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kage_53 posted...

It doesnt happen.The government controls the production of goods and services.

government is socialism for the most part, at least over here in Canada

Broseph_Stalin posted...

They're still risking their money to invest. Without the incentive of profit no one would.

That is completely irrelevant.

Explain to me how someone throwing money into the stock market deserves more wealth than a poor person capable of making the same decisions.

Literally the only difference is the money they can afford to lose. The rich person isn't smarter, more talented or more innovative. They just have more money.

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

This is a moot point when the poor don't have the money to make investing decisions at all.

its not strictly investing, I started with 50$, could have bought a video game with it, instead I learned poker at the penny stakes and slowly built this 50$ up, Im just one example among many but thats still a decision I made and dropped out of college 6 months after that

you need to get good at something though and you usualy know ahead of time what the potential earnings of whatever field you choose is

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

That's not what socialism is.

Yes it is. Under socialism, government does control the economy. If the government owns the companies, then there is no negotiating if bartering were to occur.

You are probably thinking about communism.

https://i.imgur.com/0DVK3FS.jpg

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kage_53 posted...

Yes it is. Under socialism, government does control the economy. If the government owns the companies, then there is no negotiating if bartering were to occur.

You are probably thinking about communism.

Workers own the means of production under socialism, not the state. The state can still own things and it can still be capitalism.

And communism is a stateless/classless society.

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ROOTFayth posted...

government is socialism for the most part, at least over here in Canada

No its not. Socialism is when the controls the production of goods and services. Having safety nets does not make a country socialist.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

Wow I can't believe creating a company that provides a consumer surplus to hundreds of millions of people is more lucrative than working a minimum wage job who would have thought????

everyone knows bezos delivered all the packages himself like Norman Reedus in Death Stranding

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ROOTFayth posted...

its not strictly investing, I started with 50$, could have bought a video game with it, instead I learned poker at the penny stakes and slowly built this 50$ up, Im just one example among many but thats still a decision I made and dropped out of college 6 months after that

That's irrelevant. Someone who started with more money than you can make more money than you, despite both of you making the exact same decisions.

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Nah, the wealth disparity is perfectly reasonable and capitalism is working as intended.

ITP: "I don't understand the economy."

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coh posted...

Lots of economically illiterate people here

Yes, 100%

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

That's irrelevant. Someone who started with more money than you can make more money than you, despite both of you making the exact same decisions.

nobody starts with more money, if you inherit money thats not the fault of capitalism