Current Events > USA and allies sanction Chinese officials for Uyghur Muslim genocide

(+) Yeah! (+)

ssjevot posted...

You have repeatedly misrepresented the origin of the word:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie

Yes they support what happened in Tianamen Square, but it was supporting Soviets crushing labor/rights movements in satellite states that earend them the name.

huh TIL that it was coined even as early as the 50s. I previously thought the tank-man picture was where it got the name but i guess not

Ill edit my definition of it next time to include its origin from the Soviet use of tanks in the Hungary revolution

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ssjevot posted...

Exactly this. Don't downplay the horrible things happening in Yemen. There is absolutely no justification.

here i can show you what i said to shockthemonkey in response:

pure_temper posted...

i support biden and making amends for involvement in arms deals to saudi arabia

if you have noticed anything, it should be what i keep saying about Big Oil and fossil fuel garglers and royalty

Im not a fan and you didnt even know that Biden suspended these to review. What else do you want?

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pure_temper posted...

huh TIL that it was coined even as early as the 50s. I previously thought the tank-man picture was where it got the name but i guess not

Ill edit my definition of it next time to include its origin from the Soviet use of tanks in the Hungary revolution

From what I understand, it's a "send in the tanks" thing, like with Czechoslovakia and Hungary.

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Good news

My EU Parliament rep is one of the people sanctioned by China, so he must be doing something right ^^
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Good. About damn time

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Bump

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Has CEs resident tankie melted down about this yet?

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

You think its ok for them to systematically wipe out an entire race of people because hur dur their backyard their rules.

This is quite the fucking take.

I don't think it's ok, but its also not our business. We just narrowly avoided another civil war, perhaps our time would be better spent getting our own house in order before hopping up on a soapbox and telling other countries why they suck

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SPE posted...

Has CEs resident tankie melted down about this yet?

Shab? I blocked him after he tried to get people to click on one of his weird CCP-propaganda phishing URLs.


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PoundGarden posted...

I don't think it's ok, but its also not our business.

Genocides are everyone's business, and we'd better start taking it seriously with sanctions or straight up economic embargos by moving production out of China and back into America and allied countries if they don't comply.

We can tank slightly higher prices by making sure we build quality products here. And on that note, Intel just announced a $20 billion investment to create two new fabs in Arizona. TMSC and Samsung are looking to do the same type of investment in Arizona and Texas as well.

Up to China at this point.

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Shab is melting down on Reddit

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56512430

China about to get fucked by the market.

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we need our plates

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Fuck the Chinese government.

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DarkProto05 posted...

Fuck the Chinese government.

Intel is about to by taking their lunch. TSMC and Samsung also both said they want fabs in Arizona/Texas.

Intel has 4 coming online over the next year (2 USA, 2 Europe) with 2 more planned for next years as well.

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pure_temper posted...

Genocides are everyone's business, and we'd better start taking it seriously with sanctions or straight up economic embargos by moving production out of China and back into America and allied countries if they don't comply.

We can tank slightly higher prices by making sure we build quality products here. And on that note, Intel just announced a $20 billion investment to create two new fabs in Arizona. TMSC and Samsung are looking to do the same type of investment in Arizona and Texas as well.

Up to China at this point.

You are just adorable. If you could bottle and sell naivety you'd be a billionaire lol.

Sanctions don't work, China dont give a fuck. Which still doesn't change the fact a nation on the brink of collapse doesn't have any business telling others how to run things. Let's not pretend the US is a paragon of morality and human rights

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PoundGarden posted...

Sections

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If all you have in response is "hirr dirr u made typo" why bother responding or posting? Just want to be absolutely sure eveyone knows you can't debate for shit and have nothing of value to say?

Go ahead and block me again please lol

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Oh I can assure you, random account, that anyone worth discussing with on this board will have no difficulties laughing at your dismissal of genocide and whataboutism.

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pure_temper posted...

Shab? I blocked him after he tried to get people to click on one of his weird CCP-propaganda phishing URLs.

thats wise

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Theres a big difference between killing terrorists who harm society and innocent bystanders dying. And torturing and raping your own citizens because of their religion.

One is objectively worse than the other. Anyone who thinks the USA is on the same level of evil as the Chinese government has some kind of anti-USA fetish. Stick to conversations about your own boring country and its lack of military power. You have no place in this conversation.

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DarkProto05 posted...

Stick to conversations about your own boring country and its lack of military power. You have no place in this conversation.

Considering the US has the biggest stick and has been shown to be imperfect, even downright untrustworthy I can understand why those people want to voice off

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I just blocked MildEnergy, they wont be posting in here again.

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MildEnergy posted...

Considering the US has the biggest stick and has been shown to be imperfect, even downright untrustworthy I can understand why those people want to voice off

oh look shablagoo hating on the US again

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SPE posted...

oh look shablagoo hating on the US again

SPE and mildwhatever being adorable as usual woth each other
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MildEnergy posted...

Considering the US has the biggest stick and has been shown to be imperfect, even downright untrustworthy I can understand why those people want to voice off

I understand their frustrations of the USA on other topics. And weve done terrible things in the past. But saying modern USA is comparable to China is ridiculous. One is objectively worse and they have no say in it.

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Machete posted...

SPE and mildwhatever being adorable as usual woth each other

I think he wants my deku stick

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SPE posted...

I think he wants my deku stick

Yeah those burr things can be irritating I guess
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@pure_temper Since you are an open minded individual, I invite you to watch this video. It's long, almost 1.5 hours, but it basically sums up why so many people on Reddit, Twitter, and Youtube are becoming more and more skeptical about what we're being told about China and Xinjiang. I'm interested in what you think.

https://youtu.be/8yURIS7S9zg

I'm not saying this video is right or wrong. But I do find it fascinating that a growing number of Westerners are questioning the China narrative, judging from the fact that this documentary was created by an American.

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Literal CCP shill asks you to watch a YouTube video that's an hour and a half long. Yet another thing Trumpers and Tankies have in common. They think fucking YouTube videos are quality sources of information. No one is wasting an hour and a half on that shit, we're on a message board, at least have the decency to send your propaganda in written form.

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DarkProto05 posted...

Theres a big difference between killing terrorists who harm society and innocent bystanders dying. And torturing and raping your own citizens because of their religion.

One is objectively worse than the other. Anyone who thinks the USA is on the same level of evil as the Chinese government has some kind of anti-USA fetish. Stick to conversations about your own boring country and its lack of military power. You have no place in this conversation.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/
us-military-drone-nazis-brandon-bryant-a9324011.html

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shockthemonkey posted...

The US is knowingly selling weapons that are being used for genocide.

Period.

>US sells weapons to cartels who then mass produce drugs Americans amongst many consume to the point of crisis and basically take over Mexico

iLleGaLs

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Calling the Iran backed faction in Yemen terrorists is pretty ridiculous. The Saudi backed faction is also terrorists by that logic. It's a proxy war, neither side is good, the US just backs Saudi Arabia and you have to pick one of the other. All the bad things you hear about Iran? They basically exist to a similar degree in SA. It's not a good guys versus bad guys thing and even if it was that doesn't make killing kids okay.

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Jumping in from the first 10 posts, seeing a bunch of deflecting and arguing about the US and stuff. To which I say my usual piece:

The way that China treats Uyghurs is absolutely vile, we should absolutely be shaming them for having literal fucking re-education camps, there are reports of people being forcibly sterilized and injected with mystery chemicals and there have been reports of illegal organ harvesting for years. People are being sent to these camps on trumped up charges and held for years without a trial, being interrogated for 8 hours at a time, and either eventually being trotted out in front of a judge to be judged as innocent or disappearing without a trace. That's not "sinophobic" - that's what former detainees and whistleblowers have been saying for years, including Uyghurs who fled China due to rising backlash against the Uyghur population and who were called back to China on false pretenses only to be thrown in prison for years. I understand that bigots like to take bad shit and use it as an excuse to express their bigotry, but you can't throw all of this away as racism and bigotry when China have a habit of fucking disappearing people they don't like. It happens every so often to anti-CCP scholars who moved to Australia to escape persecution.

None of what I just said invalidates the issues of America or Australia. America absolutely needs to shape up with how they treat asylum seekers and immigrants. ICE is an evil organisation, the centres where they're keeping immigrants are inhumane and wrong, and the fact that they're building more is a travesty. Australia's detention centres are so bad that a man wrote a novel about how he and his family were treated there - on a phone he had smuggled into the detention centre, where he still resides. The Liberal-National government have made conditions completely inhumane for asylum seekers, keeping them detained for the better half of a decade if they can't find a way to send them back or send them somewhere else, and they justify it as "being hard on them will deter them from trying to come here". Despite the fact that A) most illegal immigration happens via overstaying one's visa - we had that one on lock years before Americans were too stupid to realise a border wall wouldn't stop the bulk of illegal immigration - and B) the people who are being put in these camps are from war-torn nations, where their families have either been slaughtered or face certain death if they return. Our government, who came into power in 2013 on a slogan of "Stop the Boats", is absolutely dogshit in regards to immigration and border security, and Australia is absolutely complicit in human rights violations.

Now, here's the concept I want China shills to understand the most:

Nothing about the latter invalidates the former, either.

We absolutely should keep an eye on what's happening at home, within our own borders, and we should hold our own government, and the people who enact/benefit from these cruel acts, to account for them. That doesn't change the fact that China is committing genocide against a religious minority, that there have been accounts of people being unjustly imprisoned and outright disappearing for decades, that China has re-education camps where prisoners are fed propaganda, interrogated for hours on end, beaten, submitted to medical testing against their will, forcibly sterilized and - possibly - being harvested for their fucking organs.

Nothing invalidates that. People can care about more than one cause, especially if they're actively aware of the bad shit happening where they live and actively oppose it. Oh no, my government is corrupt and inhumane - guess I can't talk about the people who are summoned back to China and imprisoned without a trial for years, or who are never seen again. No - I understand that my government is cruel and inhumane, and I don't support my government on principle because of the blatant corruption, greed and disregard for human life they exhibit. I understand that the people of China are beholden to a genocidal government who have pushed propaganda to such an extent that the nation has its own isolated internet, and its own phone app where you're encouraged to watch Xi Jinping speeches and then tap the screen to simulate clapping for more social credit. I don't support bigotry against Chinese people, and I'm appalled that people have stooped to bigotry over stuff like Covid-19, but China - the state of China, headed by Xi Jinping and the CCP, with its decades of espionage, false imprisonments and unabashed use of re-education camps - is a malevolent entity that deserves to be criticized by anyone with a heart and a brain.

Do you go after people who talk about the Kurds and Armenians too? Can I not express my disgust at Turkey for the wanton displacement and massacre of the Kurdish people because my country recently deported a New Zealand teenager without informing the NZ government? Should I not care about Azerbaijan trying to wipe out Armenians, or Russia/Crimea rounding up gay men and beating/killing them in clandestine locations, because my nation fought a lengthy court case to try and deport indigenous people? Because I can assure you, the things my government have done are absolutely fucking monstrous on their own. But that doesn't change the depths of human depravity that other nations indulge in on a regular basis and it doesn't change the injustice of those actions or the disgust I feel as I hear about these people being forcibly exterminated by a ruling power. It's the same reason I speak about America with such disdain over your COVID death toll, or your rampant mass shootings. Your culture and its complacency with massacre and death is disgraceful, and you have the gall to go after other countries for their "lack of freedom" because we don't have an equal firearm-to-person ratio or because we enforce mask mandates to prevent 1% of our population from dying of plague.

We can't pretend that we don't have our own problems, but we can sure as shit bring attention to other nations who are COMMITTING GENOCIDE THROUGH WANTON VIOLENCE, FALSE IMPRISONMENT AND FORCED STERILIZATION. The problems of our own nations don't disqualify us from bringing attention to that, and to see users who I've otherwise liked in the past take this dogshit troll position of "you're just being sinophobic, pay attention to your own garden before you pay attention to theirs". I know my garden's a fucking mess, as is the garden of my neighbours. But that doesn't exclude me from shitting on your garden when there's so much that's absolutely, ass-fuck backwards about it. And it's sick that you would either troll to that effect, which is petty and evil in the enjoyment that you must get from people who actually do care, or actually go to bat for a nation committing genocide against an ethnic minority - in which case, you're genuinely a sick motherfucker, and I hope your hero's welcome after the damage has been done is punctuated by a pair of handcuffs and the same awful treatment against you that you deliberately and maliciously ignored.

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MrMallard posted...

Jumping in from the first 10 posts, seeing a bunch of deflecting and arguing about the US and stuff. To which I say my usual piece:

The way that China treats Uyghurs is absolutely vile, we should absolutely be shaming them for having literal fucking re-education camps, there are reports of people being forcibly sterilized and injected with mystery chemicals and there have been reports of illegal organ harvesting for years. People are being sent to these camps on trumped up charges and held for years without a trial, being interrogated for 8 hours at a time, and either eventually being trotted out in front of a judge to be judged as innocent or disappearing without a trace. That's not "sinophobic" - that's what former detainees and whistleblowers have been saying for years, including Uyghurs who fled China due to rising backlash against the Uyghur population and who were called back to China on false pretenses only to be thrown in prison for years. I understand that bigots like to take bad shit and use it as an excuse to express their bigotry, but you can't throw all of this away as racism and bigotry when China have a habit of fucking disappearing people they don't like. It happens every so often to anti-CCP scholars who moved to Australia to escape persecution.

None of what I just said invalidates the issues of America or Australia. America absolutely needs to shape up with how they treat asylum seekers and immigrants. ICE is an evil organisation, the centres where they're keeping immigrants are inhumane and wrong, and the fact that they're building more is a travesty. Australia's detention centres are so bad that a man wrote a novel about how he and his family were treated there - on a phone he had smuggled into the detention centre, where he still resides. The Liberal-National government have made conditions completely inhumane for asylum seekers, keeping them detained for the better half of a decade if they can't find a way to send them back or send them somewhere else, and they justify it as "being hard on them will deter them from trying to come here". Despite the fact that A) most illegal immigration happens via overstaying one's visa - we had that one on lock years before Americans were too stupid to realise a border wall wouldn't stop the bulk of illegal immigration - and B) the people who are being put in these camps are from war-torn nations, where their families have either been slaughtered or face certain death if they return. Our government, who came into power in 2013 on a slogan of "Stop the Boats", is absolutely dogshit in regards to immigration and border security, and Australia is absolutely complicit in human rights violations.

Now, here's the concept I want China shills to understand the most:

Nothing about the latter invalidates the former, either.

We absolutely should keep an eye on what's happening at home, within our own borders, and we should hold our own government, and the people who enact/benefit from these cruel acts, to account for them. That doesn't change the fact that China is committing genocide against a religious minority, that there have been accounts of people being unjustly imprisoned and outright disappearing for decades, that China has re-education camps where prisoners are fed propaganda, interrogated for hours on end, beaten, submitted to medical testing against their will, forcibly sterilized and - possibly - being harvested for their fucking organs.

Nothing invalidates that. People can care about more than one cause, especially if they're actively aware of the bad shit happening where they live and actively oppose it. Oh no, my government is corrupt and inhumane - guess I can't talk about the people who are summoned back to China and imprisoned without a trial for years, or who are never seen again. No - I understand that my government is cruel and inhumane, and I don't support my government on principle because of the blatant corruption, greed and disregard for human life they exhibit. I understand that the people of China are beholden to a genocidal government who have pushed propaganda to such an extent that the nation has its own isolated internet, and its own phone app where you're encouraged to watch Xi Jinping speeches and then tap the screen to simulate clapping for more social credit. I don't support bigotry against Chinese people, and I'm appalled that people have stooped to bigotry over stuff like Covid-19, but China - the state of China, headed by Xi Jinping and the CCP, with its decades of espionage, false imprisonments and unabashed use of re-education camps - is a malevolent entity that deserves to be criticized by anyone with a heart and a brain.

Do you go after people who talk about the Kurds and Armenians too? Can I not express my disgust at Turkey for the wanton displacement and massacre of the Kurdish people because my country recently deported a New Zealand teenager without informing the NZ government? Should I not care about Azerbaijan trying to wipe out Armenians, or Russia/Crimea rounding up gay men and beating/killing them in clandestine locations, because my nation fought a lengthy court case to try and deport indigenous people? Because I can assure you, the things my government have done are absolutely fucking monstrous on their own. But that doesn't change the depths of human depravity that other nations indulge in on a regular basis and it doesn't change the injustice of those actions or the disgust I feel as I hear about these people being forcibly exterminated by a ruling power. It's the same reason I speak about America with such disdain over your COVID death toll, or your rampant mass shootings. Your culture and its complacency with massacre and death is disgraceful, and you have the gall to go after other countries for their "lack of freedom" because we don't have an equal firearm-to-person ratio or because we enforce mask mandates to prevent 1% of our population from dying of plague.

We can't pretend that we don't have our own problems, but we can sure as shit bring attention to other nations who are COMMITTING GENOCIDE THROUGH WANTON VIOLENCE, FALSE IMPRISONMENT AND FORCED STERILIZATION. The problems of our own nations don't disqualify us from bringing attention to that, and to see users who I've otherwise liked in the past take this dogshit troll position of "you're just being sinophobic, pay attention to your own garden before you pay attention to theirs". I know my garden's a fucking mess, as is the garden of my neighbours. But that doesn't exclude me from shitting on your garden when there's so much that's absolutely, ass-fuck backwards about it. And it's sick that you would either troll to that effect, which is petty and evil in the enjoyment that you must get from people who actually do care, or actually go to bat for a nation committing genocide against an ethnic minority - in which case, you're genuinely a sick motherfucker, and I hope your hero's welcome after the damage has been done is punctuated by a pair of handcuffs and the same awful treatment against you that you deliberately and maliciously ignored.

Based

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Damn China shills are actually real.
Who knew.

TrowaBarton7 posted...

@pure_temper Since you are an open minded individual, I invite you to watch this video. It's long, almost 1.5 hours, but it basically sums up why so many people on Reddit, Twitter, and Youtube are becoming more and more skeptical about what we're being told about China and Xinjiang. I'm interested in what you think.

https://youtu.be/8yURIS7S9zg

I'm not saying this video is right or wrong. But I do find it fascinating that a growing number of Westerners are questioning the China narrative, judging from the fact that this documentary was created by an American.

@TrowaBarton7 Okay, I will give it a serious chance and get back to you on it.

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pure_temper posted...

@TrowaBarton7 Okay, I will give it a serious chance and get back to you on it.

do not believe a single fucking word that account says

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Delirious_Beard posted...

do not believe a single fucking word that account says

This. It's one of CE's many genocide deniers. Anything they post is utter shit and they should be dismissed as someone with abhorrent views who spreads Chinese government propaganda.

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You guys should already know by now you can trust me to sift through any bullshit. No worries.

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pure_temper posted...

@TrowaBarton7 Okay, I will give it a serious chance and get back to you on it.

Thank you. I look forward to your assessment and our future discussion on it.

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I'm 30 minutes in and taking notes on specific claims being made, but want to immediately call out the claim on USA forced sterilization.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-54265571

More than 150 members of the US Congress, including top Democrat Nancy Pelosi, have called for an investigation into the detention centre.

Did Xinjiang's and China's elected officials in general call for an investigation into the claims of forced sterilization in Xinjiang? Was there one done?

And the investigation found that the allegations by Dawn Wooten were not actually the case:

https://apnews.com/article/georgia-archive-only-on-ap-immigration-f2008d23c5f9087f4214d9722dfb097e

The APs review did not find evidence of mass hysterectomies as alleged in a widely shared complaint filed by a nurse at the detention center. Dawn Wooten alleged that many detained women were taken to an unnamed gynecologist whom she labeled the uterus collector because of how many hysterectomies he performed.

And say what you will about ICE, but they openly said they'd welcome independent investigations into their facilities when allegations of forced sterilization came out. America does have a dark past with racism back during Jim Crow and before that all the way to slavery, but that doesn't mean we can just trust allegations when investigations show otherwise.

So for this guy in the video to cling to that as an argument just doesn't seem like he cares about the truth. Because he made this video recently and yet this information has been out there for months by now.

It also was never the same magnitude of allegations as what is being claimed about the number of Uyghur women who are having this happen to them.

This AP News link has many other follow-up links that paint a really different picture than the minute or two this dude is spending trying to deflect criticisms or diminish criticisms with weasel words.

https://apnews.com/article/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c

This being said I'm still going through it and compiling a list of specific claims he makes to go through them w/ a finer tooth comb, especially the ones on Zenz as a source.

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Also, note that my interest here is not winning a debate. It's only the truth.

Because it's only in everyone's best interests to know the truth. If there are legitimate reasons to suspect that there's propaganda flying everywhere, we need to find out as quickly as possible.

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pure_temper posted...

Zenz as a source

He is a whackjob, but they use that as a shield for literally any source.
"This Uighur woman says she was raped in one of the camps."
"Zenz!"
"No, not him, the actual woman herself who was in the camp, and not just her, other people who were in the camps also say..."
"Lol, Zenz, CIA Propaganda!"
"I'm talking about actual people who were..."
"Zenz, it's always Zenz!"

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ssjevot posted...

He is a whackjob, but they use that as a shield for literally any source.
"This Uighur woman says she was raped in one of the camps."
"Zenz!"
"No, not him, the actual woman herself who was in the camp, and not just her, other people who were in the camps also say..."
"Lol, Zenz, CIA Propaganda!"
"I'm talking about actual people who were..."
"Zenz, it's always Zenz!"

Yeah part of my note taking will be to separate Zenz from all other sources and critically look at Zenz in isolation

I also just got in touch with a coworker via private channels, because he has USA citizenship now but came from the mainland and still has family there. He'll be helping me arrange my summer trip for tourism, that I mentioned to you. Or autumn trip, depends on when covid gets out of the way and if we're not all dead because of WW3 by then.

Anyway, I asked him straight up for his opinion and I'm going to take it very seriously because I've worked with the dude for years now and he's an honorable man with kids and a life in the USA and also in China.

We'll get to the bottom of this shit real quick because I want that fucking hotpot in Sichuan I keep telling you about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw_tJOwZmac

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Cowthief posted...

Free Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor

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So, this is happening: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/antonio-guterres-rosemary-barton-china-1.5966385

The United Nations is engaged in a "serious negotiation" with China about granting UN officials access to China's western Xinjiang province the scene of what many Western nations have called a campaign of genocide directed by Beijing against the Muslim minority Uyghur population.

"A serious negotiation is, at the present moment, taking place between the Office of the High Commissioner [for Human Rights] and the Chinese authorities," UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres told CBC chief political correspondent Rosemary Barton in an interview that aired Sunday on Rosemary Barton Live.

"I hope that they will reach an agreement soon and that the human rights high commissioner will be able to visit China without restrictions or limitations."

Seems this is what everyone wanted, no? For the UN to go inside of Xinjiang and see for themselves what is (or not) happening?

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TrowaBarton7 posted...

Seems this is what everyone wanted, no? For the UN to go inside of Xinjiang and see for themselves what is (or not) happening?

Yes. This is the path that would absolve China if it's propaganda, and allow us all to move forward and work together to actually save the planet.

The visit must be without restrictions or limitations, though. There must be cameras and live streams and the people must be allowed to investigate thoroughly so no questions are left. There must be representatives from every major country, including the countries that have placed sanctions on the two Chinese officials closest to the events.

It is a good thing that these conversations are happening and I am seriously hoping that the outcome is a peaceful and good one and we can get to the bottom of everything peaceably.

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why do we even have four pages of whataboutism?
sure USA did bad things, but that doesn't make what China doing is ok.
China shills are fucking dumb.

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