Current Events > Switzerland approves 'burqa ban' to prohibit some face coverings in public

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Shablagoo 03/09/21 6:24:59 PM #1:	Swiss voters approved a proposition Sunday banning facial coverings in public. Niqabs and burqas, worn by almost no one even among the country's Muslim population, will be banned outside of religious institutions. The new law doesn't apply to facial coverings for health reasons. Switzerland will join several European countries that have implemented a ban on facial coverings, including France, Denmark, the Netherlands and Austria. The new legislation was brought to the ballot through a people's initiative launched by the nation's right-wing Egerkingen Committee, the same group that led the charge to ban minarets over a decade ago, the Swiss Broadcasting Corporation reported. In 2017, the group presented over 100,000 signatures to the government and demanded the issue be brought to a national vote. The Swiss government opposed the nationwide initiative as excessive and argued such bans should be decided by individual regions, two of which already have a "burqa ban" in place. The ban barely passed a majority vote, with 51.2% of the Swiss voting in support of the proposal. Only six of the country's cantons, similar to states, voted against the proposition, according to the SBC. One of the largest backers of the initiative was the nationalist Swiss People's Party, which applauded the outcome of the vote and called the new measure "A strong symbol in the fight against radical political Islam." "The burqa creates a barrier between the person wearing it and the environment and thus prevents integration into society," Swiss People's Party President Marco Chiesa said in a statement. Some feminist groups and progressive Muslims reportedly were supporters of the initiative, arguing that full face coverings are oppressive to women. Other groups felt the new restriction was Islamophobic and that women should not be told what to wear. The Islamic Central Council of Switzerland said the results were "Islamophobically motivated." "Today's decision is tearing open old wounds, expanding the principle of legal inequality and sending a clear signal of exclusion to the Muslim minority," the group wrote. Researchers found that at most a few dozen Muslim women wear full face coverings in Switzerland. About 5% of Switzerland's population of 8.6 million is Muslim, the BBC reported. Swiss authorities now have two years to draft the legislation, according to The Associated Press. https://www.npr.org/2021/03/07/974630640/switzerland-approves-ban-on-face-coverings-in-public They love to talk about women's rights but they don't understand these women have been wearing the burqa their entire lives and when they start being forced to go out like the people in the West do they feel naked and uncomfortable. That's what you're forcing on them. Whatever happened to "women can wear whatever they want"? What, with the exception of the burqa? --- "If you wanna grow your business you need to exploit more." ~Austin_Era_II "Out of those two? Racist for me... easily." ~Vicious_Dios <cite>Shablagoo posted [p:951532272] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Swiss voters approved a proposition Sunday banning facial coverings in public. Niqabs and burqas, worn by almost no one even among the country's Muslim population, will be banned outside of religious institutions. The new law doesn't apply to facial coverings for health reasons. Switzerland will join several European countries that have implemented a ban on facial coverings, including France, Denmark, the Netherlands and Austria. The new legislation was brought to the ballot through a people's initiative launched by the nation's right-wing Egerkingen Committee, the same group that led the charge to ban minarets over a decade ago, the Swiss Broadcasting Corporation reported. In 2017, the group presented over 100,000 signatures to the government and demanded the issue be brought to a national vote. The Swiss government opposed the nationwide initiative as excessive and argued such bans should be decided by individual regions, two of which already have a "burqa ban" in place. The ban barely passed a majority vote, with 51.2% of the Swiss voting in support of the proposal. Only six of the country's cantons, similar to states, voted against the proposition, according to the SBC. One of the largest backers of the initiative was the nationalist Swiss People's Party, which applauded the outcome of the vote and called the new measure "A strong symbol in the fight against radical political Islam." "The burqa creates a barrier between the person wearing it and the environment and thus prevents integration into society," Swiss People's Party President Marco Chiesa said in a statement. Some feminist groups and progressive Muslims reportedly were supporters of the initiative, arguing that full face coverings are oppressive to women. Other groups felt the new restriction was Islamophobic and that women should not be told what to wear. The Islamic Central Council of Switzerland said the results were "Islamophobically motivated." "Today's decision is tearing open old wounds, expanding the principle of legal inequality and sending a clear signal of exclusion to the Muslim minority," the group wrote. Researchers found that at most a few dozen Muslim women wear full face coverings in Switzerland. About 5% of Switzerland's population of 8.6 million is Muslim, the BBC reported. Swiss authorities now have two years to draft the legislation, according to The Associated Press. https://www.npr.org/2021/03/07/974630640/switzerland-approves-ban-on-face-coverings-in-public They love to talk about women's rights but they don't understand these women have been wearing the burqa their entire lives and when they start being forced to go out like the people in the West do they feel naked and uncomfortable. That's what you're forcing on them. Whatever happened to "women can wear whatever they want"? What, with the exception of the burqa? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Flauros 03/09/21 6:25:39 PM #2:	Aren't they doing this in China too? --- https://imgur.com/EX6Md7k https://imgur.com/nhHkg9L https://imgur.com/A3kur0P https://imgur.com/Hj9RrC6 <cite>Flauros posted [p:951532295] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Aren't they doing this in China too? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SquirtleSkwad 03/09/21 6:26:13 PM #3:	I agree that they should be well within their rights to make their own decisions, but "That's the way it's always been." has literally never been a good defense. --- "If you cannot explain it simply, you do not understand it well enough."-Albert Einstein <cite>SquirtleSkwad posted [p:951532310] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>I agree that they should be well within their rights to make their own decisions, but "That's the way it's always been." has literally never been a good defense. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Background_Guy 03/09/21 6:26:22 PM #4:	How is it that America exports Hollywood movies and fast food chains with ease but we can't export the First Amendment <cite>Background_Guy posted [p:951532318] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>How is it that America exports Hollywood movies and fast food chains with ease but we can't export the First Amendment </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Phynaster 03/09/21 6:26:30 PM #5:	Yeah Islamophobia is terrible, and any country engaging in it should be condemned. For example, if a country was to start putting Muslims in concentration camps and committing genocide against them, that would be pretty awful. --- Rebel <cite>Phynaster posted [p:951532321] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Yeah Islamophobia is terrible, and any country engaging in it should be condemned. For example, if a country was to start putting Muslims in concentration camps and committing genocide against them, that would be pretty awful. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nothanks1 03/09/21 6:26:42 PM #6:	several countries have this Shablagoo posted... Whatever happened to "women can wear whatever they want"? hey you? YOU! OVER HERE! I HAVE ANOTHER FALSE FLAG!!! --- for the alcohlics https://www.aa.org/ <cite>nothanks1 posted [p:951532329] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>several countries have this Shablagoo posted...</cite> <quote> Whatever happened to "women can wear whatever they want"? </quote> hey you? YOU! OVER HERE! I HAVE ANOTHER FALSE FLAG!!!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SquirtleSkwad 03/09/21 6:28:31 PM #7:	Phynaster posted... For example, if a country was to start putting Muslims in concentration camps and committing genocide against them, that would be pretty awful. No shit. --- "If you cannot explain it simply, you do not understand it well enough."-Albert Einstein <cite>SquirtleSkwad posted [p:951532375] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Phynaster posted... </cite> <quote>For example, if a country was to start putting Muslims in concentration camps and committing genocide against them, that would be pretty awful.</quote>No shit. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Phynaster 03/09/21 6:30:06 PM #8:	SquirtleSkwad posted... No shit. I think you're missing the point of that post. --- Rebel <cite>Phynaster posted [p:951532425] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>SquirtleSkwad posted... </cite> <quote>No shit.</quote>I think you're missing the point of that post. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CouldBeAnAlt 03/09/21 6:30:43 PM #9:	Shut the fuck up tc you disingenuous turd --- Fithos lusec wecos vinosec <cite>CouldBeAnAlt posted [p:951532456] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Shut the fuck up tc you disingenuous turd </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SquirtleSkwad 03/09/21 6:30:57 PM #10:	Phynaster posted... I think you're missing the point of that post. Explain it like I'm 5. --- "If you cannot explain it simply, you do not understand it well enough."-Albert Einstein <cite>SquirtleSkwad posted [p:951532460] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Phynaster posted... </cite> <quote>I think you're missing the point of that post.</quote>Explain it like I'm 5. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Phynaster 03/09/21 6:31:32 PM #11:	SquirtleSkwad posted... Explain it like I'm 5. The TC is an outspoken denier of the Uyghur genocide in China. He's been suspended for it multiple times now. So him pretending to care about this when he handwaves them being put in camps and being victims of genocide is beyond hypocritical. --- Rebel <cite>Phynaster posted [p:951532481] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>SquirtleSkwad posted... </cite> <quote>Explain it like I'm 5.</quote>The TC is an outspoken denier of the Uyghur genocide in China. He's been suspended for it multiple times now. So him pretending to care about this when he handwaves them being put in camps and being victims of genocide is beyond hypocritical. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SquirtleSkwad 03/09/21 6:32:19 PM #12:	Phynaster posted... The TC is an outspoken denier of the Uyghur genocide in China. He's been suspended for it multiple times now. So him pretending to care about this when he handwaves them being put in camps and being victims of genocide is beyond hypocritical. The FUCK --- "If you cannot explain it simply, you do not understand it well enough."-Albert Einstein <cite>SquirtleSkwad posted [p:951532502] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Phynaster posted... </cite> <quote>The TC is an outspoken denier of the Uyghur genocide in China. He's been suspended for it multiple times now. So him pretending to care about this when he handwaves them being put in camps and being victims of genocide is beyond hypocritical.</quote>The FUCK </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Phynaster 03/09/21 6:33:36 PM #14:	Fishstick posted... He also lives in a very messy house and has mice. But it's the houses fault for being old Also his family's fault because they refuse to come over to clean for him. Can't forget that part. --- Rebel <cite>Phynaster posted [p:951532569] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Fishstick posted... </cite> <quote>He also lives in a very messy house and has mice. But it's the houses fault for being old</quote>Also his family's fault because they refuse to come over to clean for him. Can't forget that part. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shablagoo 03/09/21 11:13:30 PM #15:	Also the disingenuous users faults for making things up about me. Ill have you know multiple users have had meltdowns at me since the inception of my account for defending Islam and correcting misinformation about the faith. I took the shahada ~7 damn years ago. Im not a good Muslim (I drink, etc.) but Islam has been a big part of my adult life. Me at the local mosque: Me studying Muhammads (pbuh) life: So Phynaster posted... So him pretending to care I actually do fucking care, yes. Stop getting shit twisted. --- "If you wanna grow your business you need to exploit more." ~Austin_Era_II "Out of those two? Racist for me... easily." ~Vicious_Dios <cite>Shablagoo posted [p:951542540] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Also the disingenuous users faults for making things up about me. Ill have you know multiple users have had meltdowns at me since the inception of my account for defending Islam and correcting misinformation about the faith. I took the shahada ~7 damn years ago. Im not a good Muslim (I drink, etc.) but Islam has been a big part of my adult life. Me at the local mosque: Me studying Muhammads (pbuh) life: So Phynaster posted... </cite> <quote>So him pretending to care</quote> I actually do fucking care, yes. Stop getting shit twisted. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Phynaster 03/09/21 11:23:29 PM #16:	Shablagoo posted... I actually do f*ing care, yes. Stop getting s* twisted. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/79340164 Nah. You're full of shit. --- Rebel <cite>Phynaster posted [p:951542855] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Shablagoo posted... </cite> <quote> I actually do f*ing care, yes. Stop getting s* twisted.</quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/79340164 Nah. You're full of shit. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Turbam 03/09/21 11:24:47 PM #17:	I thought Switzerland was supposed to be neutral :V --- ~snip (V)_(;,;)_(V) snip~ I'm just one man! Whoa! Well, I'm a one man band! https://imgur.com/p9Xvjvs <cite>Turbam posted [p:951542901] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>I thought Switzerland was supposed to be neutral :V </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Damn_Underscore 03/09/21 11:24:59 PM #18:	There is nothing in the Quran that tells women to go to extraneous lengths to cover themselves. Burqas, niqabs, and even hijabs are used because they are laws in ultraconservative Islamic societies. And unsurprisingly they are used to oppress women there. Salafists shouldn't dictate the direction of the religion. --- I try to laugh about it, hiding the tears in my eyes. <cite>Damn_Underscore posted [p:951542905] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>There is nothing in the Quran that tells women to go to extraneous lengths to cover themselves. Burqas, niqabs, and even hijabs are used because they are laws in ultraconservative Islamic societies. And unsurprisingly they are used to oppress women there. Salafists shouldn't dictate the direction of the religion. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shablagoo 03/09/21 11:30:05 PM #19:	Damn_Underscore posted... There is nothing in the Quran that tells women to go to extraneous lengths to cover themselves. Burqas, niqabs, and even hijabs are used because they are laws in ultraconservative Islamic societies. And unsurprisingly they are used to oppress women there. Salafists shouldn't dictate the direction of the religion. Thats fair but I have many Muslima friends who choose to wear them here (and also many who decided not to at some point in their lives) in the U.S. where it is not mandated or used as a tool of oppression that way. The situation is the same in Switzerland. --- "If you wanna grow your business you need to exploit more." ~Austin_Era_II "Out of those two? Racist for me... easily." ~Vicious_Dios <cite>Shablagoo posted [p:951543065] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Damn_Underscore posted... </cite> <quote>There is nothing in the Quran that tells women to go to extraneous lengths to cover themselves. Burqas, niqabs, and even hijabs are used because they are laws in ultraconservative Islamic societies. And unsurprisingly they are used to oppress women there. Salafists shouldn't dictate the direction of the religion.</quote> Thats fair but I have many Muslima friends who choose to wear them here (and also many who decided not to at some point in their lives) in the U.S. where it is not mandated or used as a tool of oppression that way. The situation is the same in Switzerland. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Damn_Underscore 03/10/21 12:23:03 AM #20:	The Quran says to dress modestly That is a very simple interpretation, but I think that's a good thing because religion should be a personal matter. And what makes one person's interpretation better than another person's? Theology is an important field because it allows people to discuss and debate their beliefs and interpretations. If someone wants to wear a special dressing for religious reasons, especially a cultural one like a hijab, that is up to them. HOWEVER, it is appropriate to draw a line at a niqab or burqa. These coverings go too far, essentially. You can argue about freedom of choice, but in reality these garments are a) used to oppress women and b) are enforced by ultraconservative Muslim societies. It doesn't really make any sense to defend them. Salafis are basically the Muslim equivalent of fundamentalist Christians. Like I said, they shouldn't dictate the direction of the religion. --- I try to laugh about it, hiding the tears in my eyes. <cite>Damn_Underscore posted [p:951544516] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>The Quran says to dress modestly That is a very simple interpretation, but I think that's a good thing because religion should be a personal matter. And what makes one person's interpretation better than another person's? Theology is an important field because it allows people to discuss and debate their beliefs and interpretations. If someone wants to wear a special dressing for religious reasons, especially a cultural one like a hijab, that is up to them. HOWEVER, it is appropriate to draw a line at a niqab or burqa. These coverings go too far, essentially. You can argue about freedom of choice, but in reality these garments are a) used to oppress women and b) are enforced by ultraconservative Muslim societies. It doesn't really make any sense to defend them. Salafis are basically the Muslim equivalent of fundamentalist Christians. Like I said, they shouldn't dictate the direction of the religion. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MARKINGRAM22 03/10/21 12:24:00 AM #21:	SquirtleSkwad posted... No shit. TC defends China's genocide of muslims. <cite>MARKINGRAM22 posted [p:951544553] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>SquirtleSkwad posted... </cite> <quote>No shit.</quote>TC defends China's genocide of muslims. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pure_temper 03/10/21 12:25:09 AM #22:	Honestly TC I'll give you a serious chance if you are the way you say you are and if that is actually you. Because you're similar to me, just more inexperienced. --- proudclad LAYIN DOWN THE SMACK - Error1355 Christian Marxism actually makes sense. (Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, etc too!) <cite>pure_temper posted [p:951544592] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Honestly TC I'll give you a serious chance if you are the way you say you are and if that is actually you. Because you're similar to me, just more inexperienced. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
teep_ 03/10/21 12:29:15 AM #23:	I watched a German satirical show once (think last week tonight) talking about how this law would ban fursuits/mascot costumes etc Ridiculous --- teep dumb as f*** fr - BatmanVonDoom I'm gonna pound a 400 lb woman just to prove teep wrong - NigerianKnight <cite>teep_ posted [p:951544712] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>I watched a German satirical show once (think last week tonight) talking about how this law would ban fursuits/mascot costumes etc Ridiculous</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pure_temper 03/10/21 12:29:55 AM #24:	I'm of a Christian left approach, but you venerate the State. The true God does not venerate any tankie state, because Maoist/Stalinist/Leninist Statism is inferior to what we are capable of becoming as humans. The American model is the superior approach that will scale if it is encouraged. America just needs more divesity & inclusion, and China too. But we have surpassed China in this regard and will make fast progress. meanwhile you still seem overly partial to the claims about Uyghur ideological subversion which is literally against the Qur'an. I too studied the Qur'an for a time. I respect the prophet of the that book the way I do all the rest - fundamentally a religion of Peace when understood correctly. But only when it is parallel to the American constitution of a secular federation of states (backed by a federal government for matters pertaining to the entire state) You venerate a State and want everyone to. I want the American model on steroids. America is a federation of states precisely to prevent a single figurehead or set of figures. Trump was deranged yet his time was brief but we elected another. Is China committed to peace or not? Will they allow independent journalism groups to go and check out the Uyghur situation together as friends? With cameras? --- proudclad LAYIN DOWN THE SMACK - Error1355 Christian Marxism actually makes sense. (Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, etc too!) <cite>pure_temper posted [p:951544724] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>I'm of a Christian left approach, but you venerate the State. The true God does not venerate any tankie state, because Maoist/Stalinist/Leninist Statism is inferior to what we are capable of becoming as humans. The American model is the superior approach that will scale if it is encouraged. America just needs more divesity & inclusion, and China too. But we have surpassed China in this regard and will make fast progress. meanwhile you still seem overly partial to the claims about Uyghur ideological subversion which is literally against the Qur'an. I too studied the Qur'an for a time. I respect the prophet of the that book the way I do all the rest - fundamentally a religion of Peace when understood correctly. But only when it is parallel to the American constitution of a secular federation of states (backed by a federal government for matters pertaining to the entire state) You venerate a State and want everyone to. I want the American model on steroids. America is a federation of states precisely to prevent a single figurehead or set of figures. Trump was deranged yet his time was brief but we elected another. Is China committed to peace or not? Will they allow independent journalism groups to go and check out the Uyghur situation together as friends? With cameras? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Damn_Underscore 03/10/21 12:32:08 AM #25:	It's also worth noting that "Switzerland" didn't approve this, the Swiss people did. Switzerland has a ton referendums where the people vote for proposals, and this is one of them. The proposal won with 51.2% of the vote. And the law doesn't even exist yet. See the last line: "Swiss authorities now have two years to draft the legislation, according to The Associated Press." I would like to know how Swiss Muslims voted for this, as a whole and by gender. --- I try to laugh about it, hiding the tears in my eyes. <cite>Damn_Underscore posted [p:951544790] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>It's also worth noting that "Switzerland" didn't approve this, the Swiss people did. Switzerland has a ton referendums where the people vote for proposals, and this is one of them. The proposal won with 51.2% of the vote. And the law doesn't even exist yet. See the last line: "Swiss authorities now have two years to draft the legislation, according to The Associated Press." I would like to know how Swiss Muslims voted for this, as a whole and by gender. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pure_temper 03/10/21 12:33:36 AM #26:	Islam is not even about face coverings. You even said you're not a good Muslim. So why are you enforcing laws that aren't even actually part of sharia? You're misrepresenting a beautiful religion and lots of people because you're trying to divide the way a tankie would. Why pose for credibility with a Qur'an when your real views are so transparent and dishonest? Time to level up by being less prideful if you're being honest. Pride blinds people and your veneration of China's State is an abomination in the real god's eyes. --- proudclad LAYIN DOWN THE SMACK - Error1355 Christian Marxism actually makes sense. (Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, etc too!) <cite>pure_temper posted [p:951544814] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Islam is not even about face coverings. You even said you're not a good Muslim. So why are you enforcing laws that aren't even actually part of sharia? You're misrepresenting a beautiful religion and lots of people because you're trying to divide the way a tankie would. Why pose for credibility with a Qur'an when your real views are so transparent and dishonest? Time to level up by being less prideful if you're being honest. Pride blinds people and your veneration of China's State is an abomination in the real god's eyes. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 03/10/21 12:34:52 AM #27:	They shouldn't wear burqas and the world would be better without oppressive religious views, but no one should tell you how to dress. If you choose to dress a certain way, then that's on you. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:951544849] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>They shouldn't wear burqas and the world would be better without oppressive religious views, but no one should tell you how to dress. If you choose to dress a certain way, then that's on you. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pure_temper 03/10/21 12:34:55 AM #28:	There is only one God, and you my friend are corrupted by Lucifer's blinding yet phony brilliance. Look through the smokescreen. It's clear where free people flee to when they leave the State. Soviet Union, North Korea, eastern Europe, all collapsed and depressed to this day because of tankies. World is full of people who know the tankie ways. --- proudclad LAYIN DOWN THE SMACK - Error1355 Christian Marxism actually makes sense. (Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, etc too!) <cite>pure_temper posted [p:951544852] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>There is only one God, and you my friend are corrupted by Lucifer's blinding yet phony brilliance. Look through the smokescreen. It's clear where free people flee to when they leave the State. Soviet Union, North Korea, eastern Europe, all collapsed and depressed to this day because of tankies. World is full of people who know the tankie ways. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
teep_ 03/10/21 12:35:59 AM #29:	Damn_Underscore posted... It's also worth noting that "Switzerland" didn't approve this, the Swiss people did. Distinction without a difference --- teep dumb as f*** fr - BatmanVonDoom I'm gonna pound a 400 lb woman just to prove teep wrong - NigerianKnight <cite>teep_ posted [p:951544871] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Damn_Underscore posted...</cite> <quote>It's also worth noting that "Switzerland" didn't approve this, the Swiss people did.</quote> Distinction without a difference</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shablagoo 03/10/21 12:36:30 AM #30:	pure_temper posted... So why are you enforcing laws that aren't even actually part of sharia? Im....not. What are you talking about? Why pose for credibility with a Qur'an when your real views are so transparent and dishonest? Thats not a Quran, its a textbook about the life of Muhammad (pbuh). teep_ posted... I watched a German satirical show once (think last week tonight) talking about how this law would ban fursuits/mascot costumes etc Ridiculous Yup --- "If you wanna grow your business you need to exploit more." ~Austin_Era_II "Out of those two? Racist for me... easily." ~Vicious_Dios <cite>Shablagoo posted [p:951544887] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>pure_temper posted... </cite> <quote>So why are you enforcing laws that aren't even actually part of sharia?</quote> Im....not. What are you talking about? <quote>Why pose for credibility with a Qur'an when your real views are so transparent and dishonest?</quote> Thats not a Quran, its a textbook about the life of Muhammad (pbuh). teep_ posted... </cite> <quote>I watched a German satirical show once (think last week tonight) talking about how this law would ban fursuits/mascot costumes etc Ridiculous</quote> Yup </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Machete 03/10/21 12:37:55 AM #31:	Good on you for ignoring bait like I suggested, tc. --- I do not receive notifications, so using the @ feature will not do anything. I might see your post and respond though if I have already been in the topic. <cite>Machete posted [p:951544928] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Good on you for ignoring bait like I suggested, tc.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Phynaster 03/10/21 12:38:36 AM #32:	Machete posted... Good on you for ignoring bait like I suggested, tc. Hey remember when you were going to "call TC on the phone" and get him to drop all his terrible opinions. That sure worked out! --- Rebel <cite>Phynaster posted [p:951544946] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Machete posted... </cite> <quote>Good on you for ignoring bait like I suggested, tc.</quote>Hey remember when you were going to "call TC on the phone" and get him to drop all his terrible opinions. That sure worked out! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pure_temper 03/10/21 12:39:36 AM #33:	Shablagoo posted... Im....not. What are you talking about? face coverings are not part of the most charitable and modern interpretations of Islam you're so far behind in your understanding Shablagoo posted... Thats not a Quran, its a textbook about the life of Muhammad (pbuh). there are no legitimate writings about the prophet besides the Qur'an and maybe some external commentaries (Hadith) but debate on those is constant and eternal because only the Qur'an is a prophecy. and a prophet is not a perfect human - only gods are perfect. so the Qur'an must be interpreted at its most charitable. it's about Peace. not face coverings or war or division. It's about cooperation and letting Allah answer all evils and reward people for good that is not rewarded here. IE be a good person for the pleasure of being a good and honorable person. The first Muslims were incredible people who aided the world when Europe fell because of the plague and yet here you profane their honor and their legacy by sticking to a child's understanding of the Qur'an instead of a deep thinkers' --- proudclad LAYIN DOWN THE SMACK - Error1355 Christian Marxism actually makes sense. (Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, etc too!) <cite>pure_temper posted [p:951544980] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Shablagoo posted... </cite> <quote>Im....not. What are you talking about?</quote> face coverings are not part of the most charitable and modern interpretations of Islam you're so far behind in your understanding Shablagoo posted... </cite> <quote>Thats not a Quran, its a textbook about the life of Muhammad (pbuh).</quote> there are no legitimate writings about the prophet besides the Qur'an and maybe some external commentaries (Hadith) but debate on those is constant and eternal because only the Qur'an is a prophecy. and a prophet is not a perfect human - only gods are perfect. so the Qur'an must be interpreted at its most charitable. it's about Peace. not face coverings or war or division. It's about cooperation and letting Allah answer all evils and reward people for good that is not rewarded here. IE be a good person for the pleasure of being a good and honorable person. The first Muslims were incredible people who aided the world when Europe fell because of the plague and yet here you profane their honor and their legacy by sticking to a child's understanding of the Qur'an instead of a deep thinkers' </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Machete 03/10/21 12:40:47 AM #34:	Phynaster posted... Hey remember when you were going to "call TC on the phone" and get him to drop all his terrible opinions. That sure worked out! I did and his account is in good standing now, so what are you even attempting to claim here? And hey why aren't you on your main, rebel? Did something happen? I've been away for a few days. --- I do not receive notifications, so using the @ feature will not do anything. I might see your post and respond though if I have already been in the topic. <cite>Machete posted [p:951545016] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Phynaster posted...</cite> <quote> Hey remember when you were going to "call TC on the phone" and get him to drop all his terrible opinions. That sure worked out! </quote> I did and his account is in good standing now, so what are you even attempting to claim here? And hey why aren't you on your main, rebel? Did something happen? I've been away for a few days.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ssjevot 03/10/21 12:41:14 AM #35:	Flauros posted... Aren't they doing this in China too? Yes, they did it years ago: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-burqa-abnormal-beards-ban-muslim-province-xinjiang-veils- province-extremism-crackdown-freedom-a7657826.html The thing with TC is he doesn't actually have any kind of ideology or morals. He just knows West bad and country that doesn't like West good. --- Favorite Games: BlazBlue: Central Fiction, Street Fighter III: Third Strike, Bayonetta, Bloodborne thats a username you habe - chuckyhacksss <cite>ssjevot posted [p:951545029] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Flauros posted... </cite> <quote>Aren't they doing this in China too?</quote> Yes, they did it years ago: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-burqa-abnormal-beards-ban-muslim-province-xinjiang-veils- province-extremism-crackdown-freedom-a7657826.html The thing with TC is he doesn't actually have any kind of ideology or morals. He just knows West bad and country that doesn't like West good. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
teep_ 03/10/21 12:43:18 AM #36:	pure_temper posted... there are no legitimate writings about the prophet besides the Qur'an and maybe some external commentaries (Hadith) but debate on those is constant and eternal because only the Qur'an is a prophecy. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) is probably the historical-religious figure we know the most about pure_temper posted... and a prophet is not a perfect human - only gods are perfect Only Allah is a perfect being. As far as humans go, though, the Holy Prophet (pbuh) is the perfect man and is literally referred to as such in the Qur'an --- teep dumb as f*** fr - BatmanVonDoom I'm gonna pound a 400 lb woman just to prove teep wrong - NigerianKnight <cite>teep_ posted [p:951545075] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>pure_temper posted...</cite> <quote>there are no legitimate writings about the prophet besides the Qur'an and maybe some external commentaries (Hadith) but debate on those is constant and eternal because only the Qur'an is a prophecy. </quote> The Holy Prophet (pbuh) is probably the historical-religious figure we know the most about pure_temper posted...</cite> <quote>and a prophet is not a perfect human - only gods are perfect</quote> Only Allah is a perfect being. As far as humans go, though, the Holy Prophet (pbuh) is the perfect man and is literally referred to as such in the Qur'an</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Damn_Underscore 03/10/21 12:47:00 AM #37:	teep_ posted... Distinction without a difference There is a difference. The fact that this passed reflects the will of the country, not the will of a few politicians as depicted in the first post. In other words, the picture in the first post does not accurately describe this situation. --- I try to laugh about it, hiding the tears in my eyes. <cite>Damn_Underscore posted [p:951545156] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>teep_ posted... </cite> <quote>Distinction without a difference</quote> There is a difference. The fact that this passed reflects the will of the country, not the will of a few politicians as depicted in the first post. In other words, the picture in the first post does not accurately describe this situation. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 03/10/21 12:47:12 AM #38:	Call me an Islamophobe but I can't help but laugh at that dumb fucking image in the OP of a woman covered head to toe in black cloth rolling her eyes for being told to take it off. That's no way to live and Allah ain't real --- https://imgur.com/u5kY6Yt https://imgur.com/V6HBhkR <cite>Doe posted [p:951545164] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Call me an Islamophobe but I can't help but laugh at that dumb fucking image in the OP of a woman covered head to toe in black cloth rolling her eyes for being told to take it off. That's no way to live and Allah ain't real </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pure_temper 03/10/21 12:47:49 AM #39:	teep_ posted... The Holy Prophet (pbuh) is probably the historical-religious figure we know the most about not quite true, we have more historical materials now of many Popes since then, it's been a long time. ultimately in terms of physical mass of documents and letters and appearances in political commentary, the christian and catholic figureheads win there. it's also not doctrinally important for the prophet (pbuh even tho not muslim) to be the most known figure about. that's just a pointless standard nobody can measure to after enough history, so why impose it? Islam doesn't need to trounce anything, it's either true or it's not. Let it be true in Peace for all. teep_ posted... Only Allah is a perfect being. As far as humans go, though, the Holy Prophet (pbuh) is the perfect man and is literally referred to as such in the Qur'an in the intentions of his heart at the time and in whatever God truly revealed to him, although note that after 1,000+ years royalty and all kinds of greed can co-opt texts and prophecies and visions and weapons and materials and EVERYTHING for evil purposes. --- proudclad LAYIN DOWN THE SMACK - Error1355 Christian Marxism actually makes sense. (Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, etc too!) <cite>pure_temper posted [p:951545179] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>teep_ posted... </cite> <quote>The Holy Prophet (pbuh) is probably the historical-religious figure we know the most about</quote> not quite true, we have more historical materials now of many Popes since then, it's been a long time. ultimately in terms of physical mass of documents and letters and appearances in political commentary, the christian and catholic figureheads win there. it's also not doctrinally important for the prophet (pbuh even tho not muslim) to be the most known figure about. that's just a pointless standard nobody can measure to after enough history, so why impose it? Islam doesn't need to trounce anything, it's either true or it's not. Let it be true in Peace for all. teep_ posted... </cite> <quote>Only Allah is a perfect being. As far as humans go, though, the Holy Prophet (pbuh) is the perfect man and is literally referred to as such in the Qur'an</quote> in the intentions of his heart at the time and in whatever God truly revealed to him, although note that after 1,000+ years royalty and all kinds of greed can co-opt texts and prophecies and visions and weapons and materials and EVERYTHING for evil purposes. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MrKapowski 03/10/21 12:48:04 AM #40:	TC is giving very mixed signals --- So! You want to hear a story, eh? <cite>MrKapowski posted [p:951545184] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>TC is giving very mixed signals </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shablagoo 03/10/21 12:48:22 AM #41:	Machete posted... Good on you for ignoring bait like I suggested, tc. thanks playa --- "If you wanna grow your business you need to exploit more." ~Austin_Era_II "Out of those two? Racist for me... easily." ~Vicious_Dios <cite>Shablagoo posted [p:951545194] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Machete posted... </cite> <quote>Good on you for ignoring bait like I suggested, tc.</quote> thanks playa </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pure_temper 03/10/21 12:48:43 AM #42:	Doe posted... Call me an Islamophobe but I can't help but laugh at that dumb fucking image in the OP of a woman covered head to toe in black cloth rolling her eyes for being told to take it off. That's no way to live and Allah ain't real it's not more stupid to believe in god(s), than to not the whole point is for people to coexist and have the most charitable and level'd up version of their worldviews. in this equation, Islam is not the problem. it's State-worship. --- proudclad LAYIN DOWN THE SMACK - Error1355 Christian Marxism actually makes sense. (Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, etc too!) <cite>pure_temper posted [p:951545198] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Doe posted... </cite> <quote>Call me an Islamophobe but I can't help but laugh at that dumb fucking image in the OP of a woman covered head to toe in black cloth rolling her eyes for being told to take it off. That's no way to live and Allah ain't real</quote> it's not more stupid to believe in god(s), than to not the whole point is for people to coexist and have the most charitable and level'd up version of their worldviews. in this equation, Islam is not the problem. it's State-worship. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 03/10/21 12:50:00 AM #43:	Shablagoo posted... Me studying Muhammads (pbuh) life: PBUHing false prophets betrays Marx's conclusion that religion is a tool of oppression --- https://imgur.com/u5kY6Yt https://imgur.com/V6HBhkR <cite>Doe posted [p:951545221] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Shablagoo posted... </cite> <quote>Me studying Muhammads (pbuh) life:</quote>PBUHing false prophets betrays Marx's conclusion that religion is a tool of oppression </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pure_temper 03/10/21 12:52:10 AM #44:	Doe posted... PBUHing false prophets betrays Marx's conclusion that religion is a tool of oppression Religion is the opiate of the masses. But we all know that he was just talking about the Pharisees of his time. I remember the funny argument "Jesus would've been a Marxist." Nope, I'ma say that "Marx was probably a Christian" Why do you think MLK was a Christian and Malcom X was a Muslim? When understood at their best, these are peaceful movements and communities. Religions were to most people what the internet is to us now, but we will still need to be educated on their ways if we wish to dispel tankie thinking whish IS pseudo-theology basically. --- proudclad LAYIN DOWN THE SMACK - Error1355 Christian Marxism actually makes sense. (Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, etc too!) <cite>pure_temper posted [p:951545270] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Doe posted... </cite> <quote>PBUHing false prophets betrays Marx's conclusion that religion is a tool of oppression</quote> Religion is the opiate of the masses. But we all know that he was just talking about the Pharisees of his time. I remember the funny argument "Jesus would've been a Marxist." Nope, I'ma say that "Marx was probably a Christian" Why do you think MLK was a Christian and Malcom X was a Muslim? When understood at their best, these are peaceful movements and communities. Religions were to most people what the internet is to us now, but we will still need to be educated on their ways if we wish to dispel tankie thinking whish IS pseudo-theology basically. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Doe 03/10/21 12:52:17 AM #45:	pure_temper posted... it's not more stupid to believe in god(s), than to not the whole point is for people to coexist and have the most charitable and level'd up version of their worldviews. in this equation, Islam is not the problem. it's State-worship. "Charitable and level'd up worldview" is a nonsense statement. The burqa itself is a symbol and practice of the idea that men and women can't simply coexist in public spaces. --- https://imgur.com/u5kY6Yt https://imgur.com/V6HBhkR <cite>Doe posted [p:951545274] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>pure_temper posted... </cite> <quote>it's not more stupid to believe in god(s), than to not the whole point is for people to coexist and have the most charitable and level'd up version of their worldviews. in this equation, Islam is not the problem. it's State-worship.</quote>"Charitable and level'd up worldview" is a nonsense statement. The burqa itself is a symbol and practice of the idea that men and women can't simply coexist in public spaces. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pure_temper 03/10/21 12:53:38 AM #46:	Doe posted... "Charitable and level'd up worldview" is a nonsense statement. The burqa itself is a symbol and practice of the idea that men and women can't simply coexist in public spaces. the burqa should not exist and there are entire serious representations of the Qur'an that are progressive af and basically like me I have no rules besides what Jesus said about loving all humans including enemies, but as far as dressing or who you wanna sleep with or what you wanna eat, it's literally not what the Quran is about It's exactly the same when a progressive Christian says "just read what Jesus actually said" to all the Pharisees --- proudclad LAYIN DOWN THE SMACK - Error1355 Christian Marxism actually makes sense. (Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, etc too!) <cite>pure_temper posted [p:951545295] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Doe posted... </cite> <quote>"Charitable and level'd up worldview" is a nonsense statement. The burqa itself is a symbol and practice of the idea that men and women can't simply coexist in public spaces.</quote> the burqa should not exist and there are entire serious representations of the Qur'an that are progressive af and basically like me I have no rules besides what Jesus said about loving all humans including enemies, but as far as dressing or who you wanna sleep with or what you wanna eat, it's literally not what the Quran is about It's exactly the same when a progressive Christian says "just read what Jesus actually said" to all the Pharisees </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pure_temper 03/10/21 12:54:27 AM #47:	Marx was basically just the hipster progressive Christian or at least he knew about what Jesus said and was inspired by the economic implications ;) --- proudclad LAYIN DOWN THE SMACK - Error1355 Christian Marxism actually makes sense. (Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, etc too!) <cite>pure_temper posted [p:951545314] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Marx was basically just the hipster progressive Christian or at least he knew about what Jesus said and was inspired by the economic implications ;) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Damn_Underscore 03/10/21 12:54:57 AM #48:	teep_ posted... Only Allah is a perfect being. As far as humans go, though, the Holy Prophet (pbuh) is the perfect man and is literally referred to as such in the Qur'an I don't think it does. I don't have my verses together right now to properly debate this, but Muhammad is a prophet and prophets are explicitly and implicitly shown in the Quran to have made mistakes/not been perfect. The one thing we must believe they were perfect at is relaying the message of God. The reason I say this is that while we should be using Muhammad (and other prophets) as spiritual guides, we should not consider them to be above other human beings, and we should not view someone's life from the 7th century as how we should live today. That is what I believe, anyway. --- I try to laugh about it, hiding the tears in my eyes. <cite>Damn_Underscore posted [p:951545327] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>teep_ posted... </cite> <quote>Only Allah is a perfect being. As far as humans go, though, the Holy Prophet (pbuh) is the perfect man and is literally referred to as such in the Qur'an</quote> I don't think it does. I don't have my verses together right now to properly debate this, but Muhammad is a prophet and prophets are explicitly and implicitly shown in the Quran to have made mistakes/not been perfect. The one thing we must believe they were perfect at is relaying the message of God. The reason I say this is that while we should be using Muhammad (and other prophets) as spiritual guides, we should not consider them to be above other human beings, and we should not view someone's life from the 7th century as how we should live today. That is what I believe, anyway. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pure_temper 03/10/21 12:57:26 AM #49:	Damn_Underscore posted... I don't think it does. I don't have my verses together right now to properly debate this, but Muhammad is a prophet and prophets are explicitly and implicitly shown in the Quran to have made mistakes/not been perfect. The one thing we must believe they were perfect at is relaying the message of God. The reason I say this is that while we should be using Muhammad (and other prophets) as spiritual guides, we should not consider them to be above other human beings, and we should not view someone's life from the 7th century as how we should live today. That is what I believe, anyway. that's actually how the first Muslims believed it too, and as a result they provided one of teh most formidable logical arguments for the existence of God (Kalaam cosmological argument) It has some rougness because it's still not the best we can do, but it's still remarkable for the time period. truly advanced thinking compared to the stagnation of the planet in general throughout history. Whatever God's visions to prophets were, they were correct but how people understand them may be incorrect. That is why the Qur'ans own words especially on matters like the burqa are abrogated with time. Because obviously after 1,000+ years the prophet isn't around anymore to be asked what things meant. Science and logic, people. That's what God cares about. And not being a fucking tankie to others. --- proudclad LAYIN DOWN THE SMACK - Error1355 Christian Marxism actually makes sense. (Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, etc too!) <cite>pure_temper posted [p:951545364] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>Damn_Underscore posted... </cite> <quote>I don't think it does. I don't have my verses together right now to properly debate this, but Muhammad is a prophet and prophets are explicitly and implicitly shown in the Quran to have made mistakes/not been perfect. The one thing we must believe they were perfect at is relaying the message of God. The reason I say this is that while we should be using Muhammad (and other prophets) as spiritual guides, we should not consider them to be above other human beings, and we should not view someone's life from the 7th century as how we should live today. That is what I believe, anyway.</quote> that's actually how the first Muslims believed it too, and as a result they provided one of teh most formidable logical arguments for the existence of God (Kalaam cosmological argument) It has some rougness because it's still not the best we can do, but it's still remarkable for the time period. truly advanced thinking compared to the stagnation of the planet in general throughout history. Whatever God's visions to prophets were, they were correct but how people understand them may be incorrect. That is why the Qur'ans own words especially on matters like the burqa are abrogated with time. Because obviously after 1,000+ years the prophet isn't around anymore to be asked what things meant. Science and logic, people. That's what God cares about. And not being a fucking tankie to others. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
teep_ 03/10/21 12:58:00 AM #50:	pure_temper posted... it's also not doctrinally important for the prophet (pbuh even tho not muslim) to be the most known figure about It's not, but there are absolutely legitimate writings about the Holy Prophet (pbuh) pure_temper posted... although note that after 1,000+ years royalty and all kinds of greed can co-opt texts and prophecies and visions and weapons and materials and EVERYTHING for evil purposes Correct, but the Qur'an itself is perfect and unchanging, which Allah himself promises in the Qur'an. It's just stupid people who co-opt/distort it's teachings for their own gain Damn_Underscore posted... teep_ posted... Distinction without a difference There is a difference. The fact that this passed reflects the will of the country, not the will of a few politicians as depicted in the first post. In other words, the picture in the first post does not accurately describe this situation. I'd compare it to Brexit. The majority may have voted for it, but without a few far-right lunatics (aka Farage und UKIP) it wouldn't have become a thing in the first place --- teep dumb as f*** fr - BatmanVonDoom I'm gonna pound a 400 lb woman just to prove teep wrong - NigerianKnight <cite>teep_ posted [p:951545372] in Switzerlan... [t:79339976]...</cite> <quote>pure_temper posted...</cite> <quote>it's also not doctrinally important for the prophet (pbuh even tho not muslim) to be the most known figure about</quote> It's not, but there are absolutely legitimate writings about the Holy Prophet (pbuh) pure_temper posted...</cite> <quote>although note that after 1,000+ years royalty and all kinds of greed can co-opt texts and prophecies and visions and weapons and materials and EVERYTHING for evil purposes</quote> Correct, but the Qur'an itself is perfect and unchanging, which Allah himself promises in the Qur'an. It's just stupid people who co-opt/distort it's teachings for their own gain Damn_Underscore posted...</cite> <quote>teep_ posted... </cite> <quote> Distinction without a difference</quote> There is a difference. The fact that this passed reflects the will of the country, not the will of a few politicians as depicted in the first post. In other words, the picture in the first post does not accurately describe this situation.</quote> I'd compare it to Brexit. The majority may have voted for it, but without a few far-right lunatics (aka Farage und UKIP) it wouldn't have become a thing in the first place</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Switzerland approves 'burqa ban' to prohibit some face coverings in public (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Switzerland approves 'burqa ban' to prohibit some face coverings in public