Poll of the Day > Why should offices ever reopen?

(+) Yeah! (+)

GrabASnickers posted...

But she likes living in the city for other reasons so she isn't one of those "lot of people", and it doesn't change that you tried to claim that rural areas have a similar cultural footprint as cities

Okay. And your point is... what? I didn't say that everyone who lived in cities did so for work or the like.

Edit: It's like I said 'Most Scotsman live in homes' and you're replying with 'I'm a Scotsman and I'm homeless' and saying that, somehow, means my statement is wrong.

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I just think it's funny you said that rural areas have basically the same cultural amenities as a city

Unbridled9 posted...

Okay. And your point is... what? I didn't say that everyone who lived in cities did so for work or the like.

Edit: It's like I said 'Most Scotsman live in homes' and you're replying with 'I'm a Scotsman and I'm homeless' and saying that, somehow, means my statement is wrong.

I did literally say your statement was true for some people, that was the very first thing I said. I was just offering a different perspective.

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grimhilde00 posted...

It sounds like they're just mistaking introversion for social awkwardness and asocial behaviors to excuse and feel better about themselves.

Boohoo someone doesnt like having their workday constantly interrupted to listen to my endless prattling. They must be socially awkward.

My numbers were up 70% after working from home for 9 months last year. That's what I can get done when I'm not acting as some dipshits sounding board as he tries to pretend he is adding value.

I dont need to bounce my every stupid musing off of another person because I can sound it off of myself. If that's a crutch you require then you can go work in person with the rest of the people who suffer from that affliction.

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GrabASnickers posted...

I just think it's funny you said that rural areas have basically the same cultural amenities as a city

That's not what I said though. I said they weren't lacking in such things. Not that they were on the same magnitude as what a city has.


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TheOkHornedRat posted...

Boohoo someone doesnt like having their workday constantly interrupted to listen to my endless prattling. They must be socially awkward.

My numbers were up 70% after working from home for 9 months last year. That's what I can get done when I'm not acting as some dipshits sounding board as he tries to pretend he is adding value.

I dont need to bounce my every stupid musing off of another person because I can sound it off of myself. If that's a crutch you require then you can go work in person with the rest of the people who suffer from that affliction.

Jeez sorry, sympathy if you're surrounded by idiots who give no value with diversity of thought and you're the one know it all at your whole company.

I'm also a top performer working from home, it was just a more enjoyable life going into the office and certain things were easier.

You very much sound like a walking DunningKruger.

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I agree with most of the perspectives discussed by kriem and Judgmenl. While I do appreciate the benefits from working from home, I absolutely miss the informal socialization of the physical office environment.

My employer already had teleworking policies in place for everyone to access optionally from working episodic (you have a medical appointment closer to home) to expanded telework so folks only had to come in 2-4 days a month. The transition to WFH was relatively smooth because of that. For me it's less about logistics and more about needing a solid buffer between work and personal life.

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grimhilde00 posted...

Jeez sorry, sympathy if you're surrounded by idiots who give no value with diversity of thought and you're the one know it all at your whole company.

I'm also a top performer working from home, it was just a more enjoyable life going into the office and certain things were easier.

You very much sound like a walking DunningKruger.

I've seen both sides of the argument plenty of times. Both when someone approaches with a new perspective that helps and when someone approaches and has no clue what they're actually talking about. The latter is far more common than the former. In general high-performers are high-performers for a reason and trying to change that causes problems that may not be immediately obvious to anyone but said high-performer. It's like saying that a store is well-organized and is always properly stocked so you don't need an overnight shift anymore since there are few customers and don't realize that said overnight shift was when most of the stocking/organization happened because there were few customers resulting in overworked employees and a messy store (had that happen twice).

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Unbridled9 posted...

Both when someone approaches with a new perspective that helps and when someone approaches and has no clue what they're actually talking about. The latter is far more common than the former

The latter is still useful just more as an opportunity for mentorship. I'm in a senior position and part of that is mentorship for people who are not as high performing. I still have to work with whatever it is they build so if it's done poorly that will have negative outcomes affecting me too. Also you're not going to stay at a company forever and other people need to be able to succeed too. Plus, again, I like my coworkers.

Even if people know very little they can still give fresh perspective just because they have no biases or aren't narrowing in on the problem like you might be.

Diversity of thought drives innovation.

Also, depending on the size of the company and your role, there is just no way to know 100% of all the intricacies of multiple code bases so cross team coordination is just necessary sometimes. Can't just be your own little island.

This might not apply to all jobs but it's important for creative / building processes.

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So the original point still stands.

There's no reason for it to ever be mandated to return. Some people liked the office...some people were close enough to it to not be annoyed by the commute...some didn't have to worry about day care...some actually ENJOYED those god awful fantasy football leagues/ small talkers/ constant "collaborators" who just made meeting after meeting because they hated just simply working for real and going home.

But even acknowledging the presence of these sadistic psychopaths and thier own weird enjoyments...doesn't mean they should be the reason for EVERYONE to come back. They've hurt everyone else long enough... this is a good chance for it to end

As long as a mandated return doesn't happen...guess all will be cool. But I get the feeling they will eventually hurt everyone because that's how the corporate world works. Guess time will tell.

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DrYuya posted...

But even acknowledging the presence of these sadistic psychopaths and thier own weird enjoyments

Lmao uhhh. You sound like you're projecting a bit there

Like, I don't even want to go back to the physical office space full time again but the fact that you can't make your case without these descriptors says a lot more about you than your colleagues >_>

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grimhilde00 posted...

The latter is still useful just more as an opportunity for mentorship. I'm in a senior position and part of that is mentorship for people who are not as high performing. I still have to work with whatever it is they build so if it's done poorly that will have negative outcomes affecting me too. Also you're not going to stay at a company forever and other people need to be able to succeed too. Plus, again, I like my coworkers.

Even if people know very little they can still give fresh perspective just because they have no biases or aren't narrowing in on the problem like you might be.

Diversity of thought drives innovation.

Also, depending on the size of the company and your role, there is just no way to know 100% of all the intricacies of multiple code bases so cross team coordination is just necessary sometimes. Can't just be your own little island.

This might not apply to all jobs but it's important for creative / building processes.

And these things were easier and faster to do in the office.

This only ever seems to flow one-way though and it's usually not in the helpful one. That is to say that you'll get someone with no clue what needs to be done saying you should do it their way and, regardless of mentorship attempts as to why the square peg doesn't fit in the round hole, insisting that they're right. Plus when you're working your job is to, well, WORK. Not to mentor unless that is your job position to serve as a mentor. I don't really see it being viable for a workplace to have all its employees need to mentor other employees every time a non-viable suggestion is made.

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I guess I just have more competent coworkers maybe that's why the majority want to return to the office

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RCtheWSBC posted...

Lmao uhhh. You sound like you're projecting a bit there

Like, I don't even want to go back to the physical office space full time again but the fact that you can't make your case without these descriptors says a lot more about you than your colleagues >_>

I kinda feel some of what he's saying, I find most normie stuff to be cringe/boring/unappealing, but I wouldn't put it the way he does. And I can still find ways to connect with people even if I don't share a lot of their interests

GrabASnickers posted...

I kinda feel some of what he's saying, I find most normie stuff to be cringe/boring/unappealing, but I wouldn't put it the way he does. And I can still find ways to connect with people even if I don't share a lot of their interests

I can understand not wanting to join in on every lunch and learn or whatever the fuck, but to call people who enjoy engaging in small talk or participating in office events "sadistic psychopaths" is fucking wild though, right? Like goddamn.

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RCtheWSBC posted...

I can understand not wanting to join in on every lunch and learn or whatever the fuck, but to call people who enjoy engaging in small talk or participating in office events "sadistic psychopaths" is fucking wild though, right? Like goddamn.

Yeah I get some people might prefer remote work and those positions exist (and will exist in more capacity after all of this), but then there's just a bunch of arguments in this thread that makes people sounds like misers who just hate their coworkers.

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It kinda sounds like he must work in a bad place. Though playing fantasy football is just office normie shit not "psychopathy"

grimhilde00 posted...

I guess I just have more competent coworkers maybe that's why the majority want to return to the office

The co-workers I've dealt with fall into either the 'actually understands what is required for a job' or 'thinks sales is the only metric that's important' category. The latter is always in the management positions and it's resulted in lots of problems like useful employees getting fired because they don't work cashier positions (which is WHY they're useful. They're restocking/helping customers/cleaning/etc) while the rush-hour cashier gets praised for being the best employee in the store despite being unhelpful otherwise. Repeated attempts to explain to them that the reason why the store is struggling with things like restocking is because they keep cutting staff in the early-morning/late-night shifts when employees are able to restock only results in 'you need to work harder' or 'we caught you taking three seconds off between customers' type comments which are very unhelpful.

Diversity of thought doesn't work when the people being diverse have no clue what's going on and refuse to listen and/or learn.

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Unbridled9 posted...

Diversity of thought doesn't work when the people being diverse have no clue what's going on and refuse to listen and/or learn.

Yeah that wouldn't work, agreed.

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The way I think of it is like building a bridge. Bridges are built the way they are for reasons. On the one hand some diversity might suggest using suspension or torsion bridges for a situation; but a lot of them are going to be management suggesting you find ways to cut costs and questioning if your bridge REALLY needs all those supports or if they can replace the steel/wood with a cheaper product and a lot of the remainder will be some kid thinking it would be really cool if the bridge was also a transformer. Sure, some unique ideas may come along from time to time, but 95% of the time you need people who know how to build a bridge, not people coming up with radical new ideas on how to do it.

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I'd accept it if everything was just like this from now on. Obviously I am not thinking "I hope it stays like this", that's absurd, but the personal inconveniences have not outweighed the benefits to me personally. Though I wish they'd actually use the big stick instead of just walking softly all the time. What's the point in repeatedly fining people for big parties if they clearly don't mind paying? That $750k + 6 months in jail is just sitting there, unused. Make it the third strike penalty. That'll make the vast majority happy to see the assholes totally get wrecked.

I'm with you TC. I get plenty of social interaction through activities I do outside of work. Id rather stay at home then go to that depressing office where I can rarely even look outside.

And my supervisers can't comprehend that I can multitask and not have to stare at my screen nonstop. It's almost like doing something 8 hours a day becomes second nature.

Many probably dont need to. If your work force is as productive from home theres no reason for all the overhead that an office requires.

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grimhilde00 posted...

Jeez sorry, sympathy if you're surrounded by idiots who give no value with diversity of thought and you're the one know it all at your whole company.

I'm also a top performer working from home, it was just a more enjoyable life going into the office and certain things were easier.

You very much sound like a walking DunningKruger.

Who said anything about being a know it all? Projection much? I'm not even a top producer. Guess what though, our top producers are doing better from home too without all the unnecessary BS that comes along with being in an office. They were also not the ones interrupting my day to day with their need for everyone to like them.

You seem to have this idea of what you want my argument to be so itll be easier to take apart, but sorry, that's not how it works.

I'm at work to work, not to be your friend. Being your friend adds nothing to my paycheck, and you're not as interesting as you think you are. Sorry if that hurts your feelings to hear. People with the ability of introspection have known this their entire lives, so maybe talk to them about it. Consider it a learning experience. Maybe they can mentor you.

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TheOkHornedRat posted...

Who said anything about being a know it all?

You don't have to say anything about being one to act like one....

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TheOkHornedRat posted...

Who said anything about being a know it all? Projection much? I'm not even a top producer. Guess what though, our top producers are doing better from home too without all the unnecessary BS that comes along with being in an office. They were also not the ones interrupting my day to day with their need for everyone to like them.

You seem to have this idea of what you want my argument to be so itll be easier to take apart, but sorry, that's not how it works.

I'm at work to work, not to be your friend. Being your friend adds nothing to my paycheck, and you're not as interesting as you think you are. Sorry if that hurts your feelings to hear. People with the ability of introspection have known this their entire lives, so maybe talk to them about it. Consider it a learning experience. Maybe they can mentor you.

Ah yes I'll tell my coworkers that I still game with and video chat, even though with some of them we now have been working at separate companies for over 3 years, they can stop the charade. Is this just a cope for you because no one likes interacting with you? Cause you're the one without work friends it sounds like...

Anyway, I'll go back to having healthy social interactions while still being a top producer. Looking forward to it later this year.

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Everyone at my company is rated on a competency called "Working With Others," lol

I dunno, we spend so much of our adulthood in our workspaces. I couldn't imagine not forming bonds with the people you work with over time. And if anything, the telework environment has made it even more noticeable that some people are not engaging at all with the rest of the staff (via emails, Skype calls, zoom meetings).

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Johnny Eagle posted...

You don't have to say anything about being one to act like one....

Fair, but I didnt. That was pure projection.

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grimhilde00 posted...

Ah yes I'll tell my coworkers that I still game with and video chat, even though with some of them we now have been working at separate companies for over 3 years, they can stop the charade. Is this just a cope for you because no one likes interacting with you? Cause you're the one without work friends it sounds like...

Anyway, I'll go back to having healthy social interactions while still being a top producer. Looking forward to it later this year.

Translation: I am my job, because if I wasnt, I wouldnt be anyone.

Jfc, get an actual life.

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Gamefaqs is such a cool and fun website

damn why is the horny rat guy so angry

I miss having free air conditioning during the summer. Shit got expensive this summer working from home during a heat wave.

DeathMagnetic80 posted...

I miss having free air conditioning during the summer. Shit got expensive this summer working from home during a heat wave.

Damn that's real lol. Increased cooling and heating costs are no bueno. Also, not all businesses reimburse for shit like equipment or even internet services even though we're WFH. I'm about to bite the bullet on increasing my plan with fucking Comcast because their shitty data limit caps.

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Man I've been freezing my ass off in my home office this winter lol

I haven't lived here in summer yet, but should hopefully be nice then since I'm on the lower level

DeathMagnetic80 posted...

I miss having free air conditioning during the summer. Shit got expensive this summer working from home during a heat wave.

Ugh not looking forward to it. Places in SF typically don't have A/C. We bought a window unit but that just has meant on really bad days we sleep on the air mattress in the office with the A/C and doors closed cause it only does so much lmao.

I grew up in Texas but like 110 degrees when you can stay inside with central A/C is perfectly fine, compared to 90s here just baking without anything.

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I miss California weather except for the hot days when I didn't have air conditioning. I lived in multiple places all over the Bay Area and I don't think a single place I was in had air conditioning. I hate the weather here in Vegas, but I like having air conditioning. I don't think I could handle this city without it. Though, I did live in Sierra Leone without air conditioning. That heat was a bit more humid and less dry, so I didn't feel like I was immediately cooking when I went outside.

I enjoy working from home. No commute, can do my wife over lunch, don't have to wear pants, and my home office is very cozy

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I like working from home way more then I thought I would, but I still want to go back to the office. You lose that interaction with your co-workers that is kind of key to being able to work effectively together. Hell, I haven't even met anyone on my current team yet other then in meetings, so asking them questions is always awkward because I don't know how to properly approach the issue in a way that would be beneficial to both of us. Not to mention the co-workers who's houses are WAY to busy and you always hear distractions over the call anytime they are talking (or worse, when they don't even mute themselves).

Would I want to go back 5 days a week? No, but 2-3 days would be fine.

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Dikitain posted...

Would I want to go back 5 days a week? No, but 2-3 days would be fine.

This is exactly what I'm envisioning for myself, too. I was WFH one day a week before everything went to hell. I think once we eventually get clearance to go back in, I'll keep WFH on Mondays and Fridays.

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Kotenks posted...

I hated having to get dressed and dealing with traffic/looking for parking/the weather. I somewhat miss my coworkers but not enough to want to deal with all that before. Plus the interoffice drama you had to deal with. One of my coworkers would bother me because I was quiet and just came in to did my job. She wanted to be everybody's friend. I'm happy I don't have to deal with her anymore.

I'm willing to bet shes also going to be one of the ones most angry about the shutdowns.

Wanting to be everyone's friend likely wasn't just something she did when there wasnt much work to do...it WAS what she did at the office...that and tell everyone else how busy she was of course.

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RCtheWSBC posted...

Damn that's real lol. Increased cooling and heating costs are no bueno. Also, not all businesses reimburse for shit like equipment or even internet services even though we're WFH. I'm about to bite the bullet on increasing my plan with fucking Comcast because their shitty data limit caps.

We get a $50 a month work from home stipend, which is better than nothing I guess.

DeathMagnetic80 posted...

We get a $50 a month work from home stipend, which is better than nothing I guess.

Man I'd take that in a heartbeat. My employer offers transit subsidies which are great normally, but what good has that been to us in the last year? I wish they'd give us an internet subsidy.

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If you dont see the value for office space you have never run a business or even been in some position with any level of managerial authority.

even really small online business start ups will need an office address Or no one will take them seriously even in this day and age. (Many of them rent mailboxes or conference room space and pay a certain minimal fee for that just to show a location or access to one.

this is not true of all industries it is true for a majority of office based business.

with zoom and google meets and people becoming more familiar with that technology many office industries adopted that type of tech for the normal long distance meeting medium with in person meetings relied upon less but for certain more urgent or more important meetings.

many things are still more efficient to do in person but more businesses have become more aware and have adopted more online technologies.

also interpersonal interactions are still key in dealings. However that is something that internet and tech culture has whittled away at and over reliance on online tools has damaged Millenials and Youngers abilities to socially interact in person.

its not insurmountable but those who learn will have an advantage in the workplace which is crazy because such social grace and social interpersonal interaction skills were just commonplace.

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My wfh benefits include 70 dollars of grubhub per month and 50 dollars towards my cellphone bill

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Yeah, there will be a need for offices. This work from home just feels so isolating and these zoom meetings feel so unreal with the bad audio and poorly synced video. It's pretty bad. I can certainly understand businesses going to a hybrid setup where some days you wfh and others you go to the office to save on office space and commuting, but pure wfh does not work well for me.

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I didn't think it was that hard to understand that people may have different preferences than you. There are definitely upsides to office work that many people prefer.

One of the biggest upsides to working from home that I can think of is being able to keep your job wherever you live. I despise commuting. My commute right now is only 40-ish minutes and thats still too much (80 minutes total on top of being at work eight and a half hours a day is just too much). Not every town has lots of job opportunities (like where I live -__-) It would be nice to know that I can move wherever I want and still keep my job without having to start over somewhere new.

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Its another reason why Arv cant accept peoples opinions on things

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CarefreeDude posted...

I enjoy working from home. No commute, can do my wife over lunch, don't have to wear pants, and my home office is very cozy

Smart man

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