Current Events > CE, help me. I need your advice. (Internet and ISP problems)

(+) Yeah! (+)

So my wife and I have been using dinosaur-speed 25mbps internet for the last 5 years in our apartment and never had any issues streaming video or playing online games. Just 2 weeks ago we started experiencing problems where we'll randomly lose connection and the modem would power cycle like 3 times trying to reconnect. Sometimes it happens like once a day, sometimes it happens like 10 times a day. We had a tech from our ISP come last week and tell us our modem and router were getting old (they were like 5 years old), so we should replace them, and it would probably solve the issue. I buy a new router and modem, and it didn't solve it.

So now an Optimum tech came this morning, pokes around the utility closet, and tells us "Ooh, you guys should upgrade your speed." And said that with 20-30mbps, we shouldn't be able to stream video or play games period. I looked into it and every streaming service I see like Netflix and Hulu states that 20 is the recommended minimum, which is why we originally signed up for such a cheapo package when we first moved in. And like I said, we've been using internet as our primary TV source and playing all sorts of online games with absolutely no problems for yeeears.

The hell do I do, guys? He said we should upgrade to 300mbps, but that'll jack our bill up considerably. Are we SOL?

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I have 50 and I never had a problem streaming or gaming
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They don't at least have a 1 yr discount/promo for the upgraded speeds?

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You can definitely stream video or play games with 20 - 30 Mbps. You won't get 4K video at those speeds, but you can stream lower quality video.

Do some other tests from a wired computer:

• Try to close out of any web sites and stop any streaming that anyone in your home is doing.
• Open up the command prompt and type: ipconfig
• You should see an IP address listed for the default gateway. Do an extended ping to that IP address
• In order to do that, type: ping defaultgatewayipaddresshere-n 100
• Once it finishes 100 ping attempts it will give you the results. Post them here.
• Then type: ping 8.8.8.8 -n 100
• Once it finishes 100 ping attempts, it will give you the results. Post them here.

If you see packet loss to the gateway IP, there is something wrong with either the cable you're using to connect to the router or the router itself. If you don't see packet loss to the gateway IP, but you see packet loss to 8.8.8.8, there is something wrong upstream from the router.

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CableZL posted...

there is something wrong upstream from the router.

Hopefully this isn't the case cause then it'll be a pita to convince your ISP that their shit is busted.

LostForest posted...

So now an Optimum tech came this morning, pokes around the utility closet, and tells us "Ooh, you guys should upgrade your speed." And said that with 20-30mbps, we shouldn't be able to stream video or play games period.

Yeah this is complete BS. That more than enough for gaming and streaming(you can do those things with 10mbps). That tech had no idea what was wrong so he said to just throw more mbps at the issue.

Also I've never heard of a modem or router power cycling itself because there was no internet connection. Considering your replacement also did the same thing, don't rule out an electrical issue with the outlet. Try moving the equipment somewhere else in the apartment and test.

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Ping statistics for 192.168.1.1:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 8ms, Average = 0ms

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 10ms, Maximum = 19ms, Average = 11ms


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ya the power cycling on its own is odd for sure if we're talking a real full power cycle.

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LostForest posted...

Ping statistics for 192.168.1.1:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 8ms, Average = 0ms

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 10ms, Maximum = 19ms, Average = 11ms

OK, so that suggests your network connection is clean both locally and to the internet. Do you see different results when you try this while on wifi?

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BlazinBlue88 posted...

Yeah this is complete BS. That more than enough for gaming and streaming(you can do those things with 10mbps). That tech had no idea what was wrong so he said to just throw more mbps at the issue.

Also I've never heard of a modem or router power cycling itself because there was no internet connection. Considering your replacement also did the same thing, don't rule out an electrical issue with the outlet. Try moving the equipment somewhere else in the apartment and test.

Interesting! I've got them plugged into a smart surge protector. I'll have to try moving them to just a regular outlet and see if it helps. Never considered that. Thanks!

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BuckVanHammer posted...

ya the power cycling on its own is odd for sure if we're talking a real full power cycle.

I'm not 100% sure? Basically what will happen is at random times of the day, we'll lose connection, and about 30 seconds after, the modem will restart. Like, the lights all turn off, except for the power light, and everything comes back on in sequence.

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LostForest posted...

I'm not 100% sure? Basically what will happen is at random times of the day, we'll lose connection, and about 30 seconds after, the modem will restart. Like, the lights all turn off, except for the power light, and everything comes back on in sequence.

OK, that suggests either a power issue with the modem or a problem with the modem itself. Has the ISP addressed that at all?

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LostForest posted...

I'm not 100% sure? Basically what will happen is at random times of the day, we'll lose connection, and about 30 seconds after, the modem will restart. Like, the lights all turn off, except for the power light, and everything comes back on in sequence.

ok so thats just your internet coming in fucking up if your power light stays on.

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Wi-fi results:

Ping statistics for 192.168.1.1:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 1545ms, Average = 21ms

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 95, Lost = 5 (5% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 12ms, Maximum = 258ms, Average = 26ms

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CableZL posted...

OK, that suggests either a power issue with the modem or a problem with the modem itself. Has the ISP addressed that at all?

The first technician suggested we get a new modem, which we did. But it kept happening after we got a new modem and router.

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Godnorgosh posted...

This might sound silly, but have you considered what else people are doing using the same connection while you are playing Smash? Is there ever a time you're gaming online and someone else is streaming at the same time, etc?

It's not even just Smash or online games though. We stream all of our television, so at random times we'll be watching TV and nothing else, but it'll just freeze, and the modem will restart like I mentioned :\

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This might sound stupid, but while the technician was here, we double checked the coax running into our apartment, and the connection from the wall was ever so slightly loose. Like, it needed maybe a 1/4-1/2 turn with a wrench to make it super tight.

Could that little bit of tightening have been all we needed to do? I'm only asking because it hasn't been long enough to know if everything is working now, or not.

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if you swapped all the hardware out, id say its safe to say the issue is on the isp side. other than trying a different outlet, but that's a slim chance imo. the internet coming in to your shit is bouncing offline for whatever reason.


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LostForest posted...

Wi-fi results:

Ping statistics for 192.168.1.1:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 1545ms, Average = 21ms

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 95, Lost = 5 (5% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 12ms, Maximum = 258ms, Average = 26ms

Hmm... that 5% loss is troublesome, but strange that it only happened on wifi and only past the router. Might try another test with hardwired, but do 1000 pings instead of 100. Might have just been something the 100 pings didn't catch.

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LostForest posted...

Interesting! I've got them plugged into a smart surge protector. I'll have to try moving them to just a regular outlet and see if it helps. Never considered that. Thanks!

Try and spread them across a few different outlets if possible.

Also is the power cycling the first indication it goes offline?

i.e. Computers go from working normally to the network cable turns to unplugged and then back on.

Ive worked at a few ISPs and it sounds to me like its the link to the ISP.

Modems dont require that much power. Although some UPSs will do weird things when they detect a power problem.

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CableZL posted...

Hmm... that 5% loss is troublesome, but strange that it only happened on wifi and only past the router. Might try another test with hardwired, but do 1000 pings instead of 100. Might have just been something the 100 pings didn't catch.

run this command;

tracert 8.8.8.8

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divot1338 posted...

Try and spread them across a few different outlets if possible.

Also is the power cycling the first indication it goes offline?

i.e. Computers go from working normally to the network cable turns to unplugged and then back on.

Ive worked at a few ISPs and it sounds to me like its the link to the ISP.

Modems dont require that much power. Although some UPSs will do weird things when they detect a power problem.

Nah, generally we'll be using the internet or streaming a video, and it'll freeze to buffer, and then maybe 30 seconds or a minute of that loading and inability to connect to the internet, then the modem will restart.

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LostForest posted...

Nah, generally we'll be using the internet or streaming a video, and it'll freeze to buffer, and then maybe 30 seconds or a minute of that loading and inability to connect to the internet, then the modem will restart.

Yeah, the modem shouldn't restart on its own regardless of what you're doing on the internet. Has it done the same thing since you moved it to a different power source?

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1000 pings on my wired connection:

Ping statistics for 192.168.1.1:
Packets: Sent = 1000, Received = 1000, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 14ms, Average = 0ms

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
Packets: Sent = 1000, Received = 1000, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 10ms, Maximum = 473ms, Average = 23ms


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CableZL posted...

Yeah, the modem shouldn't restart on its own regardless of what you're doing on the internet. Has it done the same thing since you moved it to a different power source?

I'm gonna try moving it somewhere else after lunch. It's just tricky because we have very few power outlets by the coax-in line.

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Alright, moved modem to a new outlet. Don't think there's realistically anyway to do so with the router though. Let's hope it works!

BTW thanks so much to everyone who's been super helpful and supportive in this thread! When CE comes together, it's a beautiful thing <3

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LostForest posted...

Nah, generally we'll be using the internet or streaming a video, and it'll freeze to buffer, and then maybe 30 seconds or a minute of that loading and inability to connect to the internet, then the modem will restart.

How do you know for sure that its restarting and not just running through its connection to the ISP? Can you see it from where youre at?

One thing that might be a good sanity check is toplug something like a small alarm clock in that same power strip. Youll be able to tell for sure whether its power then.

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LostForest posted...

Like, the lights all turn off, except for the power light, and everything comes back on in sequence.

For some reason, when I originally read this, I thought it said all the lights turn off. My mistake. If the power light stays on, then it's more likely something along the lines of what divot1338 said.

LostForest posted...

This might sound stupid, but while the technician was here, we double checked the coax running into our apartment, and the connection from the wall was ever so slightly loose. Like, it needed maybe a 1/4-1/2 turn with a wrench to make it super tight.

Could that little bit of tightening have been all we needed to do? I'm only asking because it hasn't been long enough to know if everything is working now, or not.

Tightening the coax line is indeed a possible fix.

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Also that tracert command I mentioned will help identify where any packet loss is happening? Most likely inside your house (wiring, equipment, gremlins) or between you and whatever local device the ISP uses (their wiring, overloaded network, equipment, line issues).

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divot1338 posted...

Also that tracert command I mentioned will help identify where any packet loss is happening? Most likely inside your house (wiring, equipment, gremlins) or between you and whatever local device the ISP uses (their wiring, overloaded network, equipment, line issues).

Got it. I'll try it out now.


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Tracing route to dns.google [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 7 ms 12 ms 8 ms 67.59.254.65
4 8 ms 9 ms 8 ms 67.59.254.246
5 9 ms 10 ms 9 ms 451be0fe.cst.lightpath.net [65.19.99.254]
6 14 ms 13 ms 12 ms 64.15.2.50
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 15 ms 14 ms 14 ms 108.170.228.94
9 11 ms 12 ms 12 ms 216.239.62.149
10 11 ms 21 ms 11 ms dns.google [8.8.8.8]

Trace complete.


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That traceroute looks clean as well. Might have to run it when you're noticing problems.

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In light of the post about the power lights you need to swap out any cables being used to give you a clean setup.

Try and minimize what other devices you connect with during your test.

If it continues then you can safely tell the ISP its them and to fix it or cancel service.

Theyll fold and send someone out to reconnect the line.

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Let me save you the trouble TC. Optimum is horribly oversold and all the nodes are overcongested pretty much all around NYC, LI, NJ and further.

Even if you get 300, you'll likely face the same issues. What model router and modem do you have? You're not renting from them?

The only way to fix this is to complain to the local DOIT and force them to split the node. Or pray you have Optimum fiber available at your address, which is still rare around the tri-state, but has none of these issues.

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I gotta run some errands but Ill track this topic and check in later.

Good luck.

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divot1338 posted...

In light of the post about the power lights you need to swap out any cables being used to give you a clean setup.

Try and minimize what other devices you connect with during your test.

If it continues then you can safely tell the ISP its them and to fix it or cancel service.

Theyll fold and send someone out to reconnect the line.

Swap out as in buy new ones? Cuz admittedly, a couple of the wires are pretty old. Like, possibly close to 10 years lol. But the one I'm using between modem and router is brand new.

Or do you just mean unplug them while testing?

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CableZL posted...

That traceroute looks clean as well. Might have to run it when you're noticing problems.

Will do! Thanks.

InfinityMonster posted...

Let me save you the trouble TC. Optimum is horribly oversold and all the nodes are overcongested pretty much all around NYC, LI, NJ and further.

Even if you get 300, you'll likely face the same issues. What model router and modem do you have? You're not renting from them?

The only way to fix this is to complain to the local DOIT and force them to split the node. Or pray you have Optimum fiber available at your address, which is still rare around the tri-state, but has none of these issues.

We live in an apartment building which exclusively uses Optimum, because of course lol. Not to defend them, but in fairness, we've had them for almost 5 years and never experienced issues until this started a couple weeks ago.

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If you open a command prompt window and run the command;

ping 8.8.8.8 -t

you can just minimize the window and just let it run. You can check back whenever the problem happens again and at least see whats been happening leading up to it.

Whether the lag was increasing, if packets were being dropped prior to it resetting, ....

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Alright, had the issue once again just now. We were watching TV (streaming), and my wife was using her phone to browse the web. All of a sudden, the TV feed froze and started trying to buffer, and my wife's phone got a push notification that the wifi lost internet access, and then a minute or so later, the modem restarted, though the power button stayed on the whole time. Took about 4 or 5 minutes to restart and get our connection back.

While this was happening I ran traceroute again and got this:

Tracing route to dns.google [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * * * Request timed out.
26 * * * Request timed out.
27 * * * Request timed out.
28 * * * Request timed out.
29 * * * Request timed out.
30 192.168.1.1 reports: Destination net unreachable.

Trace complete.

Then as it was finishing up, the modem finished restarting and we got our connection back, I ran it again immediately and got this:

Tracing route to dns.google [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 7 ms 7 ms 6 ms 67.59.254.65
4 12 ms 8 ms 9 ms 67.59.254.246
5 8 ms 10 ms 9 ms 451be0fe.cst.lightpath.net [65.19.99.254]
6 19 ms 12 ms 14 ms 64.15.2.50
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 12 ms 13 ms 12 ms 108.170.228.94
9 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 216.239.62.149
10 12 ms 11 ms 12 ms dns.google [8.8.8.8]

Trace complete.

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If the power button is staying on, then I would suspect it's just losing it's connection to the ISP as divot1338 said. I would try calling your ISP and tell them you're getting frequent disconnects. Explain what you're seeing with the lights and stuff because it's definitely going to be upstream from the modem at this point.

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Relevant steps you've tried:

• 2 separate modems
• Tightening the coax connection on the new modem
• 2 separate power sources for the modem
• Also, the traceroute you ran while you were having the problem proves your computer is maintaining connectivity to your internal network, but you're not getting any response from beyond that when the problem happens.

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Just for the sake of argument when I call them... we do have mice in our building from time to time. If one of them theoretically damaged one of the coax cables running in through the ceiling, would that be a possibility here? Or no, would it be more constant, with just no connection at all?

Thanks again for all your work, my dude. I really appreciate it

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LostForest posted...

Just for the sake of argument when I call them... we do have mice in our building from time to time. If one of them theoretically damaged one of the coax cables running in through the ceiling, would that be a possibility here? Or no, would it be more constant, with just no connection at all?

Thanks again for all your work, my dude. I really appreciate it

A damaged line is definitely a possibility.

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Dammit. I hope it's not a damaged cable since ISP says it's not their responsibility and it falls to the building management to re-wire.

(Spoilers: Management is not quick to help out with non-emergencies)

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Lol, I'm not sure why you're still trying to troubleshoot this after explaining why it's happening. This is a common problem with Optimum in the tri-state, just check their reddit or DSLrepoets. I don't think I know anybody that hasn't been having these issues, especially the past year. It gets worse during peak time after 5.

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InfinityMonster posted...

Lol, I'm not sure why you're still trying to troubleshoot this after explaining why it's happening. This is a common problem with Optimum in the tri-state, just check their reddit or DSLrepoets. I don't think I know anybody that hasn't been having these issues, especially the past year. It gets worse during peak time after 5.

Regardless of whether it's a common area issue, if it IS the responsibility of the ISP to fix it, it's proper to open a trouble ticket to have them make a repair attempt.

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CableZL posted...

Regardless of whether it's a common area issue, if it IS the responsibility of the ISP to fix it, it's proper to open a trouble ticket to have them make a repair attempt.

Yeah, which is why I told him how to get it solved in my OP. Optimum has a reputation and it's not good and they're gonna waste his time with endless techs visits and "oh I don't see anything wrong" because it's an issue they don't really want to admit. You need to get a regulatory agency involved or switch to fiber if it's available at his address.

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InfinityMonster posted...

Yeah, which is why I told him how to get it solved in my OP. Optimum has a reputation and it's not good and they're gonna waste his time with endless techs visits and "oh I don't see anything wrong" because it's an issue they don't really want to admit. You need to get a regulatory agency involved or switch to fiber if it's available at his address.

You typically won't have much of a leg to stand on with a regulatory agency unless you've called them and had them make multiple repair attempts.

"My internet with my ISP sucks"

• Have you called them to get it fixed?

"No"

• \O/

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Also, ISPs commonly offer some sort of inside wiring protection for an extra monthly fee. If you know you have issues with mice possibly chewing on wiring, that might be worth looking into.

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