Current Events > So why do people usually not stay 20 years in the military?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I did my 4 years, but the Military was tired of me and the other 2 74D's in my unit(Why the hell did my unit sign on 3 74D's????) doing nothing basically all day for four years. Once we taught a Chemical class, one time we attended a class on updated chemical stuff.....other than that we just sat around doing nothing in an Engineer unit, playing games mostly. Helped the supply sergeant other times. Oh and one time, I got to help in the armory, super awesome.

So they gave me an opportunity for a re-up bonus all that jazz after my 4 was up, but told me I would have to reclass to an 12B Engineer. I was like HELL NO. First sergeant signed my release and I got the hell out of my unit.

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RAAAWWWRRR posted...

I didn't even know it was possible to serve 20 years. Interesting read here.

@RAAAWWWRRR 20 is just the minimum for retirement benefits (unless you get medically separated then you could be eligible for certain lifelong benefits through that). A person generally has to be E-6 minimum (don't know the O rank) to even reach 20, though - don't make that and you'll be hitting High Year Tenure and be separated beforehand. Higher ranking people can serve longer - E-9 can serve up to 30, and sometimes even longer with certain policy waivers.

Technically a person can be in a certain reserve status up to I believe 60 years of age, too.

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I did my 4 as well and they even kept me 3 months after my original ETS date...at the time I didn't think I would of survived the whole 20. Not talking about combat either.

10 years later...yeah I doubt I would still be here.

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ManaYuka posted...

So they gave me an opportunity for a re-up bonus all that jazz after my 4 was up, but told me I would have to reclass to an 12B Engineer. I was like HELL NO. First sergeant signed my release and I got the hell out of my unit.

You didn't wanna go blow shit up?

Though I do get not wanting to go on route clearance on deployments

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Hexenherz posted...

A person generally has to be E-6 minimum (don't know the O rank) to even reach 20, though - don't make that and you'll be hitting High Year Tenure and be separated beforehand. Higher ranking people can serve longer - E-9 can serve up to 30, and sometimes even longer with certain policy waivers.

E-6 Minimum for enlisted
At least O-4 for Officer, though you're either hitting O-5 or likely getting out before 20 years if you hit O-4 too fast. Officer world is competitive

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008Zulu posted...

How good is the 20 year pension?

Good enough to help my parents with their retirement. My dad before being an office worker, spent 20 years in the military. He cheated though and did officer school and never served time as a grunt and never saw combat

He still calls himself a "vet" though which I secretly think is dumb but never told him that to his face

Zikten posted...

Good enough to help my parents with their retirement. My dad before being an office worker, spent 20 years in the military. He cheated though and did officer school and never served time as a grunt and never saw combat

He still calls himself a "vet" though which I secretly think is dumb but never told him that to his face

To be a veteran, a service member must have:
180 days of consecutive active duty (not counting training)
Or one day in a combat zone: served on Active Duty during a period of war or in a campaign or expedition for which a campaign badge was authorized.
Served in the National Guard or Reserve for 20 years and retired under honorable conditions. (passed 2016)

I know it isn't what your typical layperson thinks when the term veteran is used, but pretty much anyone who was ever active duty or deployed to the middle east while national guard/reserves, is a veteran.

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wackyteen posted...

To be a veteran, a service member must have:
180 days of consecutive active duty (not counting training)
Or one day in a combat zone: served on Active Duty during a period of war or in a campaign or expedition for which a campaign badge was authorized.
Served in the National Guard or Reserve for 20 years and retired under honorable conditions. (passed 2016)

I know it isn't what your typical layperson thinks when the term veteran is used, but pretty much anyone who was ever active duty or deployed to the middle east while national guard/reserves, is a veteran.

He only ever spent time abroad in West Germany in the 70s. Rest of his time was stateside.

My younger brother was a Captain in the USMC. He wanted to do 20 years. After 5 tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. He decided "I gave. These motherfuckers are going to kill me".

He was medically retired due to PTSD and is comfortably living off his Captain's level disability stipend plus retirement in Costa Rica. Condo, maid, free healthcare, large expat community.

The guys I know who did 20 years usually did it before we had presidents who initiated batshit crazy wars.

The human mind was not made for a "total war" mentality for 20 years.

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008Zulu posted...

How good is the 20 year pension?

My dad got kinda high up and did a lot of shit but I know hes pretty much been set every year and hasnt had to do anything since he retired if he didnt want to.

Zikten posted...

Good enough to help my parents with their retirement. My dad before being an office worker, spent 20 years in the military. He cheated though and did officer school and never served time as a grunt and never saw combat

He still calls himself a "vet" though which I secretly think is dumb but never told him that to his face

Id call him smart. Did his time with no nonsense. Seems perfect.

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Zikten posted...

He only ever spent time abroad in West Germany in the 70s. Rest of his time was stateside.

Everyone has their role man. Like I said, almost 15 years in, have never done a single deployment, haven't even stepped foot on a ship that hadn't been converted to museum -_-

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And yeah officers have it made. Say you make O-4, base pay now is 8,573.70, get out at 20, you'd get over 4k a month alone. Enlisted side you're looking at like 2150-3300 depending on how far you get (if you retired at 20, range covers E-6 to E-9). CWO = somewhere in between.

It's not a lot but 20 years of experience + a degree = you're going to get a job when you get out anyway. And 2100 can cover the mortgage and a few of the bills for sure.

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There are several reasons why people don't stay in for the 20.

I've been in the Marine Corps for 10 years now, and there are times where I absolutely do not like being in at all. I've even contemplated of getting out after this enlistment, but I decided that I've had a lot more positive moments in the Corps rather than negative moments. Although I don't enjoy what I do in the military, I do enjoy the military.

A lot of factors include your MOS (job), your unit, your leadership, and which branch. The Marine Corps is more physically demanding than the other branches, but I believe a lot of this, is because the Marine Corps has that "tough guy" factor mentality. That being said, the Corps attracts a lot of dumb teenagers who want to earn that title, because the Corps has been known as the "toughest branch". Then once they actually graduate boot camp, they go to their first duty station and, depending on their leadership, they will become those immature leaders who don't know how to take care of their Marines and get their guys hurt because "You can suck it up" or "we're Marines, we're not weak" or some stupid stuff like that.

I can only answer on the behalf of my experience, but I've also had Marines who joined, expected something completely different (deployments, etc) but ended up being admin or something and didn't do stuff like that.

Thankfully I've had good leadership my entire time. I was a former Drill Instructor and may or may not go back to be a hat again.

Also, in regards to NOT retiring as an officer, those dudes just have way too many meetings all the time lol. It's always about something dumb and, like someone else said, there is a lot of responsibilities that come with being an officer. Many people (including myself) don't want that piece of the pie where I'm constantly working everyday or dealing with work everyday. Doing that for 20 years can be very mentally demanding.

thing1010 posted...

There are several reasons why people don't stay in for the 20.

I've been in the Marine Corps for 10 years now, and there are times where I absolutely do not like being in at all. I've even contemplated of getting out after this enlistment, but I decided that I've had a lot more positive moments in the Corps rather than negative moments. Although I don't enjoy what I do in the military, I do enjoy the military.

A lot of factors include your MOS (job), your unit, your leadership, and which branch. The Marine Corps is more physically demanding than the other branches, but I believe a lot of this, is because the Marine Corps has that "tough guy" factor mentality. That being said, the Corps attracts a lot of dumb teenagers who want to earn that title, because the Corps has been known as the "toughest branch". Then once they actually graduate boot camp, they go to their first duty station and, depending on their leadership, they will become those immature leaders who don't know how to take care of their Marines and get their guys hurt because "You can suck it up" or "we're Marines, we're not weak" or some stupid stuff like that.

I can only answer on the behalf of my experience, but I've also had Marines who joined, expected something completely different (deployments, etc) but ended up being admin or something and didn't do stuff like that.

Thankfully I've had good leadership my entire time. I was a former Drill Instructor and may or may not go back to be a hat again.

Also, in regards to NOT retiring as an officer, those dudes just have way too many meetings all the time lol. It's always about something dumb and, like someone else said, there is a lot of responsibilities that come with being an officer. Many people (including myself) don't want that piece of the pie where I'm constantly working everyday or dealing with work everyday. Doing that for 20 years can be very mentally demanding.

Semper Fidelis my friend. As I posted before my younger brother was a USMC officer. Myself, I used to write speeches and do intelligence - as a political military affairs officer (PMAO) for an undisclosed federal agency. I was never in the military,

BUT

Always Sometimes I used to have to sit in those god damned meetings on behalf of the officer - usually a colonel - I worked for. 75% were a waste of time.

I don't know what it's like now but that's what it was like in the 90's.

Stay well and stay safe.

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I did 4 years in the Army from 98-02, as an 11B. Would have stayed for 20 but I tore my left knee pretty bad late in my tour and that pretty much turned me off. At the time, your were called a POGE or a Profile when you were injured and you might as well have been called trash. Was stuck on every crappy detail, every gate watch, every terrible duty one could call for. The details would usually conflict with my physical therapy and this caused me to get in trouble with my unit. Even though the unit decided to say screw my therapy and put me on a 24 hour no relief gate guard. My docs got mad and went to to the Brigade XP, he in turn yelled at my CO and at that point life was way worse than ever before.

I was a good soldier too, on the Scout team and was gonna get a shot at Ranger school before the injury. The unit even screwed me from getting an EIB badge. My profile expired a month before the course and I was going through all the training. My 1st Sergeant pulled me stating that they didn't feel I was up to par for the ruck march considering just a month off profile. That just fast tracked me to become the Armorer for the company. 9/11 happened and a few months later I was given a fitness test to see if my knee was combat ready. The docs said I only had 50% range of motion and that would disqualify me as an infantryman. To re-up, I would need to change MOS and declined and finished my tour.

I never got to see combat and finished my four years 60days early due to accumulating leave.

I loved the service. The brotherhood. The women. The job. The uniform. The training. The way I was forced to stay physically fit. But when I got hurt, I was treated like garbage and me being 20-21 at the time, I didn't know any better. Then when my number was called and asked why I didn't speak up, well, your drilled to follow orders. I tell my Sergeant about my therapy, he tells me I gotta pull a guard duty. The guard duty supercedes this. That's what I was under the impression of. Don't get me wrong, this is still an incredible job, but being naive gets you know where and being a know it all gets you the same. You gotta find a good medium and stick there until you get some solid rank.


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brestugo posted...

Semper Fidelis my friend. As I posted before my younger brother was a USMC officer. Myself, I used to write speeches and do intelligence - as a political military affairs officer (PMAO) for an undisclosed federal agency. I was never in the military,

BUT

Always Sometimes I used to have to sit in those god damned meetings on behalf of the officer - usually a colonel - I worked for. 75% were a waste of time.

I don't know what it's like now but that's what it was like in the 90's.

Stay well and stay safe.

Thank you! No it hasn't changed at all. Its mind numbing meetings that talk about dumb stuff that, for some reason, they hold these meetings at the end of the day.

thing1010 posted...

Thank you! No it hasn't changed at all. Its mind numbing meetings that talk about dumb stuff that, for some reason, they hold these meetings at the end of the day.

I honestly believe they hold the meetings just to say they did it. It's a documentable way of saying "we're paying attention to this thing" that they can send to the SECDEF, President and Congress.

Even though nothing comes from it, it's a plain way to say "we're on it!"

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Hexenherz posted...

And there are priorities for who gets waitlisted when it's at maximum capacity - priority 1 is Medal of Honor recipients, priority 2 is anyone who was a prisoner of war, priority 3 is retiree with 20 years of active service and who has 100% service-related disability, priority 4 is 100% disability with 10 or more years of active duty service.

I thought it might just have been a service they offered to anyone who served, not just those who were disabled (1 and 2 probably excluded).

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thing1010 posted...

Thank you! No it hasn't changed at all. Its mind numbing meetings that talk about dumb stuff that, for some reason, they hold these meetings at the end of the day.

Also, in the 90s. after the "substantial" work was done, they would open a dorm sized fridge full of beer and we'd all get loaded.

The meetings were attended by O5s, O6s and PMAOs like me. And occasionally State Department types.

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008Zulu posted...

I thought it might just have been a service they offered to anyone who served, not just those who were disabled (1 and 2 probably excluded).

That's just the waitlist if they hit max capacity. Before then you have to have retired with 20+ years of service and at least half that as enlisted.

That's the official retirement community for the military. I imagine regular retirement homes might sometimes offer military discounts or something though idk.

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I did a few years and was all but dead inside towards my last year. Got out when I failed my physical for the NCO academy due to how bad my cardio was and couldnt ever pass the run. Not sure what was wrong with me but no matter how much extra running i did outside of PT i just couldnt keep up anymore.

Wish I'd had gotten out sooner becuase mentally it didn't help me at all because it didnt feel like I'd grown at all and in many ways was still a dumb highschool kid into my mid 20s.

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The military life is physically and mentally taxing. So its understandable why most don't do 20 years. But mad respect to those that did.

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Gohan187 posted...

Then when my number was called and asked why I didn't speak up, well, your drilled to follow orders. I tell my Sergeant about my therapy, he tells me I gotta pull a guard duty. The guard duty supercedes this. That's what I was under the impression of.

Lmfao what a shitty nco.

Though that was more of the mentality back before the war.

A lot of things changed once the War on Terror kicked off.

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