Current Events > Do you agree with this Star Wars lightsaber skill hierarchy?

(+) Yeah! (+)

In other words, one's prowess purely in terms of lightsaber combat.

Mace Windu
Yoda = Darth Sidious
Darth Maul
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader
Luke Skywalker = Qui-Gon Jinn
Rey
Kylo Ren

why is maul above obi wan when obi wan has beaten him in pretty much every encounter they've been in, including ones that maul had the upper hand in

he literally kills him twice, and he was able to fight off maul and savage at the same time

Maul has no business being above Kenobi. Vader is above Kenobi.

It is hard to place Luke due to lack of showings. The only opponent he regularly fought was someone actively not trying to turn him, not kill him.

---

Reis posted...

why is maul above obi wan when obi wan has beaten him in pretty much every encounter they've been in, including ones that maul had the upper hand in

Compsognathus posted...

Maul has no business being above Kenobi. Vader is above Kenobi.

It is hard to place Luke due to lack of showings. The only opponent he regularly fought was someone actively not trying to turn him, not kill him.

Again, this ranking is based on the films.

Even though Obi-Wan "killed" Maul, there is no doubt IMO that Maul won the lightsaber duel. Obi-Wan got lucky with a surprise strike.

And Kenobi defeated Vader on Mustafar and only allowed him to win in ANH.

okay but placing obi-wan below maul is still silly because he grew a lot stronger from the time he was a padawan to his time as a jedi master

Reis posted...

okay but placing obi-wan below maul is still silly because he grew a lot stronger from the time he was a padawan to his time as a jedi master

Yes, but I'm not convinced he improved enough to be superior to Maul. Maul took on Obi and Qui-Gon simultaneously and had the upper hand.

Josiah_Is_Back posted...

Again, this ranking is based on the films.

Even though Obi-Wan "killed" Maul, there is no doubt IMO that Maul won the lightsaber duel. Obi-Wan got lucky with a surprise strike.

And Kenobi defeated Vader on Mustafar and only allowed him to win in ANH.

You just said characters in the films, not that we could only use the films.

And the only reason Kenobi beat Vader on Mustafar was because Kenobi knew Anakin better than anyone, including playing to his arrogance.

Anakin/Vader otherwise consistently performed better against similar opponents. The best example of which is Count Dooku.

---

Reis posted...

why is maul above obi wan when obi wan has beaten him in pretty much every encounter they've been in

---

Josiah_Is_Back posted...

Yes, but I'm not convinced he improved enough to be superior to Maul. Maul took on Obi and Qui-Gon simultaneously and had the upper hand.

Eh, he was on the run then beat Qui-Gon one on one, then lost to Kenobi one on one.

---

Obi-Wan should be higher, so should Anakin. That is all.

---

Josiah_Is_Back posted...

Yes, but I'm not convinced he improved enough to be superior to Maul. Maul took on Obi and Qui-Gon simultaneously and had the upper hand.

Obi had an incredibly long duel with Vader, who was better than Maul. When Maul fought Qui-Gon & Obi, he kept brushing Obi aside and would deal with Qui-Gon one on one. At that point, Obi still had his training wheels on.

---

SW duels, especially in the movies, are way too inconsistent and influenced by things other than pure skill for this kind of hierarchy

---

Compsognathus posted...

You just said characters in the films, not that we could only use the films.

Guess I should've worded that better

Rey being above Kylo Ren doesn't make any sense. Like, the movies tell you this is just not the case a few times.

---

Obi-wan was a padawan when he beat Maul. A padawan. Let that sink in. Maul was pretty bottom tier.

---

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Rey being above Kylo Ren doesn't make any sense. Like, the movies tell you this is just not the case a few times.

I seem to recall her owning him every time they met >_>

BeyondWalls posted...

Obi-wan was a padawan when he beat Maul. A padawan. Let that sink in. Maul was pretty bottom tier.

Again, he didn't beat him in lightsaber combat. He caught him off guard. Big difference.

Compsognathus posted...

And the only reason Kenobi beat Vader on Mustafar was because Kenobi knew Anakin better than anyone, including playing to his arrogance.

Its always said that Vader grows more powerful from his anger, but during that fight, it was more of a blinding rage. I often wonder if it would actually hurt Vader rather than help him help him in that instance.

---

Sidious is a master of all light-saber combat styles. He's probably the best there is.

Anakin was touted as the strongest and most accomplished Jedi of the Clone Wars for a reason.

Honestly, Kenobi isn't really that great. He never goes on the offensive and always manages a win over his major opponents because they have a moment of pure rage and don't think clearly

---

Josiah_Is_Back posted...

Again, he didn't beat him in lightsaber combat. He caught him off guard. Big difference.

i mean that just makes it even worse for maul? getting caught off guard by such a stupid maneuver looks even more amateurish on his part, even if you want to ignore obi-wan spanking him across clone wars and rebels

Is Mace really considered the GOAT?

Josiah_Is_Back posted...

Again, he didn't beat him in lightsaber combat. He caught him off guard. Big difference.

He kind of did. He cut his lightsaber in half.

---

Perascamin posted...

Honestly, Kenobi isn't really that great. He never goes on the offensive and always manages a win over his major opponents because they have a moment of pure rage and don't think clearly

He utilizes form 3, which emphasizes defense. His style was used as a means of stamina, to wear down an opponent and take advantage only when the opportunity came about.


---

Maul gets overrated because he was able to kill Qui-Gon, but he did so by suckering him into an environment that put Gui-Gon at a huge disadvantage.

Compare to Count Dooku who mopped the floor with Obi-Wan and Anakin in their first fight, went toe-to-toe with Yoda and held his own for a while, and then wrecked Obi-Wan's shit again in a 1v2 against him and Anakin. And that's just counting the movies. Hell if you don't count force powers I bet even Greivous could have given Maul a run for his money, dude just wasn't that good.

Also I'm of the opinion that Windu didn't actually beat Sideous, the Emperor threw the fight as part of his plan to turn Vader.

---

MrToothHasYou posted...

And that's just counting the movies.

yeah lol dooku beat the shit out of anakin and obi-wan consistently across clone wars, but even if you ignore it he should be above obi-wan in this list which he is absent from for some reason

I like to think that Anakin in his prime could have been better at lazerswords than Kenobi.

Obi Wan didn't really put much of a fight in New Hope. Even with Darth Vader's stiff fighting style.

---

why is maul above obi wan when obi wan has beaten him in pretty much every encounter they've been in

they fought more than once?
---

Perascamin posted...

Sidious is a master of all light-saber combat styles. He's probably the best there is.

Anakin was touted as the strongest and most accomplished Jedi of the Clone Wars for a reason.

Honestly, Kenobi isn't really that great. He never goes on the offensive and always manages a win over his major opponents because they have a moment of pure rage and don't think clearly

Kenobi is excellent. One of the top duelist in the galaxy. He is just constantly up against other top duelist.

Here is the thing, prior to Episode I, most Jedi trained in lightsaber duels out of tradition rather than need. The Sith had been extinct for centuries and the average Jedi, even most masters, would go their entire lives without being in a serious lightsaber duel. So most Jedi weren't particularly good at dueling, as it made far more sense to focus on training against blasters and the like. So someone like Kenobi might not seem as great but the sheer fact that he has fought multiple Sith Lords (who did train for lightsaber duels) and survived puts him in the top tier of duelist.

---

Kelystic posted...

why is maul above obi wan when obi wan has beaten him in pretty much every encounter they've been in

they fought more than once?

yes they fought numerous times across clone wars and rebels, both of which are canon

Compsognathus posted...

Kenobi is excellent. One of the top duelist in the galaxy. He is just constantly up against other top duelist.

Here is the thing, prior to Episode I, most Jedi trained in lightsaber duels out of tradition rather than need. The Sith had been extinct for centuries and the average Jewish, even most masters, would go their entire lives without being in a serious lightsaber duel. So most Jewish weren't particularly good at dueling, as it made far more sense to focus on training against blasters and the like. So someone like Kenobi might not seem as great but the sheer fact that he has fought multiple Sith Lords (who did train for lightsaber duels) and survived puts him in the top tier of duelist.

The fact that your spellchecker is changing Jedi to Jewish is great

---

I knew I was forgetting people. Dooku and Grievous. >_<

Grogu = GOAT

---

The Popo posted...

The fact that your spellchecker is changing Jedi to Jewish is great

My phone's autocorrect and I are in a constant battle.

---

Pretty bad list.

Obi-Wan > Maul, even if you want to argue that Maul beat him and Kenobi killed him as he was celebrating, that was Episode 1 Obi. By RotS being able to swap hands with a bloodlusted Anakin should put him quite a bit above Maul

Kylo steamrolls Rey in the one fair fight they have in TRoS and Rey cheap shots him while he's distracted.

Luke's saber skills are also trash and should be below everyone from the prequels.

Anakin should also be above Obi-Wan and Maul given his showings vs Dooku.

---

SamuelLJackdson posted...

Is Mace really considered the GOAT?

Yes. His form allowed him to flirt with the Dark Side, tapping into both sides of the Force while maintaining his foothold in the Light -- something very few Jedi could achieve. He could also detect "shatterpoints," moments in the Force that gave him a special instantaneous insight into a momentary fracture or weak point in his opponents' fighting strategy. Windu was able to feed off the darkness and rage of his adversaries, hence why he defeated Sidious.

And yes, Mace. Defeated. Sidious.

wbloechel posted...

Uhh where is Han Solo?

That Tauntaun never stood a chance

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Rey being above Kylo Ren doesn't make any sense. Like, the movies tell you this is just not the case a few times.

There's a reason the first rule of fiction is "Show, don't tell" and not the other way around.

---

Maul is solidly below Obi-Wan for one

I mean just look up their last fight

Going with movie feats only, my list would probably go

Mace Windu
Yoda = Sidious
Anakin
Dooku
Obi-Wan
Maul
Vader
Qui-Gon
Luke
Kylo
Rey
General Grievous
Bonus Finn

---

Luke beat Vader, so he should be above him.

---

wbloechel posted...

^ I actually can't argue with that. No idea why Mace gets to be so high, but I have no evidence to prove otherwise.

It's really just because he beat The Senate. I know a ton of people debate whether he really won or Sidious threw the fight, but since we're only using movie feats and GL himself confirmed Windu won the fight I have to put him at the top

Granted, this is sabers only. If we include force powers and/or non movie feats then Yoda and Sidious are a good bit above him. Hell, even Anakin and Dooku give him a run for his money.

---

Josiah_Is_Back posted...

Darth Sidious

Was he really that skillful at the lightsaber? He seemed more powerful with the force than skillful.

BipBapBam posted...

Going with movie feats only, my list would probably go

Mace Windu
Yoda = Sidious
Anakin
Dooku
Obi-Wan
Maul
Vader
Qui-Gon
Luke
Kylo
Rey
General Grievous
Bonus Finn

Curious for your reasoning for putting Vader above Luke based on the movies, when Luke beat Vader in episode 6.

---

The Popo posted...

Curious for your reasoning for putting Vader above Luke based on the movies, when Luke beat Vader in episode 6.

A few reasons.

1. Vader was conflicted that entire fight, he was basically on the verge of turning back to the light side. Being conflicted in Star Wars massively nerfs people, just look at Kylo losing to "a girl that had never held a lightsaber" as evidence.
2. Vader was trying to recruit Luke, not kill him.
3. Luke got a big rage dark side boost after Vader threatened turning Leia

---