Board 8 > Magic the Gathering: Kaldheim spoiler season etc

(+) Yeah! (+)

Nice. Went 7-2 and qualified for day 2 of the Qualifier Weekend tournament. This is also means no matter what I'm entered into next month's qualifier weekend which means I won't have to do the mythic grind this month >.>

Don't know how much people here care about standard but just in case anyone was curious:

Deck: Dimir Rogues (idk if people have used my exact list online but it's basically the same as every other rogues list you can find with maybe a few numbers tweaked)

Round 1: W 2-1 vs a non-meta W/G midrange deck with some seemingly suboptimal card choices
Round 2: W 2-1 vs Izzet Tempo
Round 3: W 2-1 vs Sultai Ultimatum (including a win on a mull to 5 which was neat)
Round 4: W 2-0 vs Mono-red Aggro
Round 5: L 1-2 vs Mono-red Aggro
Round 6: W 2-0 vs Naya Adventures/Tokens
Round 7: L 1-2 vs Mono-white Aggro
Round 8: W 2-0 vs Sultai Ultimatum
Round 9: W 2-0 vs Sultai Titan's Nest
---

Nice, grats man.

---

Lmao I don't what I was expecting from day 2 of the qualifier but it certainly wasn't "Wizards of the Coast accidentally makes the event Historic instead of Standard and then resets the whole event 3 hours in".

To be entirely fair, it is probably true that a total reset is the right call after the first mistake, which was likely just "some employee pushed the wrong button". Still very frustrating though.
---

Wow, that is awful.

---

Yep! They did compensate us by giving us auto entry into the next 3 qualifier weekends (instead of next 1 which we already had by making day 2 at all), which is good for me at least. Thank god I didn't have something else going on today though.

Thought I posted how I did in day 2 but apparently not--I ended 2-3. I was 2-0 before the reset so that kinda sucked, but at least the difference wasn't enough that it really would have mattered. Some people on Twitter were complaining because they had 4 or 5 wins by the time they reset the event.

Can't remember what my records were, but I think I played against 3 Izzet Tempo, 1 Sultai Ultimatum, and 1 Cycling. Losses were to 2 of the Izzet players and the Cycling player.
---

I was going to say everybody should get some kind of compensation for the hours lost, but I figured from their perspective WotC wasn't obliged to give anybody anything. Of course they choose something that costs them nothing, but if I got auto-entry for the next three qualifiers I'd be psyched.

It's surprising how good that Izzet Tempo deck does in tournaments considering how poor of a choice it is on ladder. I guess it mostly comes down to aggro being much more popular on the ladder.

Gratz on the free entries, with a few extra shots at it in the future I hope you find yourself on a good run next time.

---

I am all for dunking on Wizards of the Coast but in this case I find it hard to justify expecting more than what they gave us. It's a qualifier that we all got free entry to anyways, so it's not like we got screwed out of an entry fee. Tbh this is more than I was expecting since I thought they were just going to give us gems or something. (Which we also got, which actually probably has some indirect cost to them)

Of course the fact that this happened at all is still kind of ridiculous.

I'm still not particularly a believer in the Izzet Tempo deck in general tbh, but it is the sort of thing I can see performing well in the right meta. Though the question my gut is asking is "can it handle mono-red/decks with Embercleave?" which is not a matchup I have experience in from either side. And if that matchup is doable then it's probably fine, especially for a meta clogged to the brim with Sultai Ramp
---

I wasn't trying to dunk on WotC here. Like I said, I'd be psyched if I had gotten that as compensation. If this happened in a paper tournament (not that they got the format wrong but what is basically a 3 hour delay) I find it unlikely they'd give anybody anything on the same level. They aren't really obligated to compensate people in either situation, so it's cool when they do.

No, Izzet Tempo does not do well against mono red. Most of the things it wants to do are too slow against a good RDW hand, and I think it might even be worse against mono white since the white deck has such resilient threats. 3/4 and 4/4 dragons aren't that great if the opponent has a bigger first striking flier with alseid/savior backup.

---

So uh...I have no idea if this deck is actually good, but it is 1-1 and is some of the most silly/fun times I've had on Arena draft ever.

https://i.imgur.com/fK2uvuQ.png

ChichiriMuyo posted...

I think it might even be worse against mono white since the white deck has such resilient threats. 3/4 and 4/4 dragons aren't that great if the opponent has a bigger first striking flier with alseid/savior backup.

I didn't actually think about this but you're probably right here. Seems like it might really struggle as long as they get down the Savior/Alseid early
---

Tendrils + Mizzix is kinda hilarious

---

Playing tendrils in that deck might be the most win more play I have ever seen.

---

I started playing the Tainted Pact deck in historic for a bit. I actually think it's fairly fun to pilot, it's not a braindead combo deck like Tibalt's Trickery where you just mull to the combo and faceroll. It's more of a control deck with a combo wincon.

That being said, I fully expect either Oracle or Pact to get banned in the very near future just because of the logistics of the win taking too long. I wish people would just scoop more often, but about 75% of games the opponent makes me click decline 40 times.

---

The Mana Sword posted...

That being said, I fully expect either Oracle or Pact to get banned in the very near future just because of the logistics of the win taking too long. I wish people would just scoop more often, but about 75% of games the opponent makes me click decline 40 times.

They've had this same problem with decks on MTGO before and not cared about it, though that's a bit of a different beast because

1) Historic is digital only
2) unlike Pact, the decks that did this were not "the best deck"

One alternative they could do is adjust the chess timer/rope to not tick down during it, since the main reason people do it is because there's a real possibility to time out during it which makes it "correct" to not concede if you care more about win rate than not wasting time.

---

Unless youre really slow I dont think theres any way to realistically rope out during the combo. Ive gotten close once or twice but even then I had at least 1 time extension available after rifling through 40+ cards.

Ill be interested to see how they handle it.

---

Oh okay, last I heard it was something that hard required two timeouts to execute which maybe isn't accurate.

---

Man there is so much ridiculous stuff in Strixhaven limited. Currently on Channel+Crackle With Power. Honestly there's a good chance the deck is better without Channel since it isn't doing much otherwise and I can't exactly get the combo consistently, but I thought this was too silly not too run. Definitely enjoying this more than any of the other draft formats I've played, which is admittedly not too many.

On the subject of Tainted Pact, my understanding is you can set it up so that you win even if you rope out--as long as you play Thassa's Oracle first and then respond to the ETB trigger with Tainted Pact. If you do that and rope out mid-Tainted Pact, I think what happens is that it auto-declines every card and then you just win once the Oracle ETB effect resolves.
---

Yeah, I would always cast Oracle, hold priority, then cast Pact in response so everything was already on the stack.

Again, not that it mattered because Ive never actually timed out, but still. And it extra wont matter because theres a B&R announcement coming tomorrow to take the deck out back behind the woodshed.

---

From my playing of Tainted Pact so far, once you have the combo set up it doesn't take that much time to play out. In fact, I'd say it's one of the faster decks that win off of Thassa's Oracle.

I suspect neither Oracle or Pact will get banned. Pact might, but certainly not Oracle. Stifle is in Historic Anthology 5 and that's an incredibly solid answer to this or any Oracle combo. Also there are already decks that disassemble Pact pretty easily without changing their lists at all from what they ran pre-Pact.

I really think that banning Pact is premature right now. If they do I'll get my wildcards and move on, but I feel like a lot of the hate is coming from people who just don't want to see the meta change significantly. They built their decks and have tweaked and tuned them for the last ~6 months and so that's how historic should always be, right? It sucks when your deck goes from tier 1 to tier 3, and maybe when it does you don't notice the tier 2 decks going up to tier 1 because of the new boogieman, but that doesn't mean bannings are necessary.

---

I don't think they ban pact, except playing it on arena is such a janky interface. You don't want a card in a tier 1 deck to be so miserable to play with and against.

---

I hope they dont, its my favorite deck to play in a long time. But a URL for a ban announcement today exists in the Wizards website (though its not live yet), and I cant imagine what else would warrant a ban right now.

---

masterplum posted...

I don't think they ban pact, except playing it on arena is such a janky interface. You don't want a card in a tier 1 deck to be so miserable to play with and against.

I know I'm only talking from one side of the equation here but I don't find the deck miserable to play with at all. I actually find it fun, and the interface doesn't bottleneck playing the deck in the same way that something like Cat-Oven did. The play progression mentioned earlier is the optimal way of doing it "in case," but like Mana I also haven't timed out at all.

When I think of a deck that was miserable to play with and against I think of the U/G Oko decks. I hated it even while I was playing it and it crushed everything else so hard nothing else was worth playing. Tainted Pact isn't that, not even close.

---

RIP Thassas Oracle

---

Those combo hating bastards. So many intriguing decks just gone now. Oh well.

---

Is the deck still playable with Jace, Wielder of Mysteries?

---

Yes, but there's obviously the issue of Jace being more expensive.

---

Define playable.

The deck was T1 because once thassa was on the battlefield there was nothing you could do about it. Jace is twice the cost and can be removed.

mystic reflections life gain jank is playable Im sure Jace version will still win games, but I doubt you could ever hit mythic with it

---

masterplum posted...

Define playable.

T1-T2, enough to still be a meta deck. Though you answer my question here by saying it isn't good enough to hit mythic.

Although it could be different for the tournament meta, I dunno. It was banned for having a 50+% metagame share in a pro tournament which is normally a fair call. I thought it was a bit premature but then I realized the championship is in two weeks and they clearly didn't want to risk Tainted Pact dominating the Historic matches if the meta couldn't adjust. This gives pros time to test the format without it. Plus, it's even more of an issue because HA5 drops soon. The players only have a few days to test that before locking in decks and from WotC's perspective they absolutely do not want Pact to overshadow their shiny new gold sink.

So I get the ban for the specific purpose of having this one tournament (hopefully) be more diverse and more fun to watch. But idk about it from a pure gameplay perspective, or what the actual pros think about it. It could be something to revisit after the championship.

---

I tested a Jace list this morning a bit and it's not great. The slow down from needing 6 mana from 4 is pretty detrimental against a lot of decks. Maybe someone will come up with a more solid list at some point, but I don't really think the deck is worth playing at this point.

---

Its just not a good idea to be a slow combo deck

---

I suspect it might also matter that removing Jace at instant speed disrupts the combo and makes it so you lose instead.

Maybe, I'm not actually sure how much instant speed planeswalker removal there is available.
---

pyresword posted...

I suspect it might also matter that removing Jace at instant speed disrupts the combo and makes it so you lose instead.

Maybe, I'm not actually sure how much instant speed planeswalker removal there is available.

Not a lot, but it exists.

Having your combo deck be oops I lose instead of oops I win is really terrible

---

It would remind me a lot of Twin (even have the 4 mana sorcery now, more mana needed for protection) except losing the ability to "just go for it" without putting your library to 3 cards and be in danger of losing is a huge deal, as is the singleton aspect. And Tainted Pact it not itself an alternate wincon like Twin's creatures are. It's MUCH worse.

Still, much worse Twin is still Twin and people are gonna try and workshop the combo until it works. Combo/control decks are like crack to people.

---

Lots of MH2 spoilers. There's an uncastable demonic tutor with suspend 2

Also Dakkon planeswalker


---

Also they reprinted cabal coffers...at mythic. Of course.

---

DT seems insane in restore balance, but probably too slow for other decks

---

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

It would remind me a lot of Twin (even have the 4 mana sorcery now, more mana needed for protection) except losing the ability to "just go for it" without putting your library to 3 cards and be in danger of losing is a huge deal, as is the singleton aspect. And Tainted Pact it not itself an alternate wincon like Twin's creatures are. It's MUCH worse.

Still, much worse Twin is still Twin and people are gonna try and workshop the combo until it works. Combo/control decks are like crack to people.

Not even in the same universe. Twin flashing in a land tapper is what made it so killer. You had to immediately burn your removal if you had it. You couldnt wait for them to go for it.

---

This card evoked + Ephemerate is a very silly turn 1 play


---

masterplum posted...

Not even in the same universe. Twin flashing in a land tapper is what made it so killer. You had to immediately burn your removal if you had it. You couldnt wait for them to go for it.

Yeah man that's what I said. It's much worse, that isn't going to stop people. The play pattern is the same.

---

Very happy with the Horizons stuff shown today. Very excited for the set, hopefully the draft format will be as good as the original.

---

I have to admit I'm a bit concerned knowing that the evoke creature from above is part of a cycle, and it's known from Maro's hints that there's at least one other free spell that's not part of the evoke cycle.

Free spells and Wizards messing up, name a more iconic duo

---

So I really like the Timeless Dragon, but I feel like it will totally be lost in the shuffle. Am I wrong or does it feel very Standard power level more than Modern power level?

Trampling over planeswalkers on Thrasta is cute.

I like that the frame on the "unfinished" alt art Dakkon looks like a child colored it in, including going outside the lines on the set symbol. I guess the Urza's enchantment/land does so too, but you can barely see any frame on it to get what the art style was meant to be.

---

Yeah, the Dragon is a cute callback, but I dont think itll see much play outside of Commander.

---

VintageGin posted...

I have to admit I'm a bit concerned knowing that the evoke creature from above is part of a cycle, and it's known from Maro's hints that there's at least one other free spell that's not part of the evoke cycle.

Free spells and Wizards messing up, name a more iconic duo

They will never stop trying to make free spells. They're always going to chase the dream of free spells that are playable, beloved by the players, and not broken. As for other, non-evoke, free spells in the set we've already seen Force of Negation. I don't think these cards are too likely to break the game given the fact that they aren't truly free - you're losing card advantage in the process. That's a lot more fair than something like Once Upon a Time where the card literally says you can pay it for no cost.

---

Yeah, I do like that it's very much like Eternal Dragon but has costs on it that better reflects today's power level. I just really wish they could have found an excuse to fit it into a standard legal set.

---

ChichiriMuyo posted...

They will never stop trying to make free spells. They're always going to chase the dream of free spells that are playable, beloved by the players, and not broken. As for other, non-evoke, free spells in the set we've already seen Force of Negation. I don't think these cards are too likely to break the game given the fact that they aren't truly free - you're losing card advantage in the process. That's a lot more fair than something like Once Upon a Time where the card literally says you can pay it for no cost.

Yeah I guess the Force cycle from MH1 was pretty reasonable. The other "free" spell I was referring to is a card that has "you may sacrifice a mountain rather than pay this spell's mana cost".

---

I could see Ephemerate eating a ban at some point.

They mentioned the combo on stream though so they are aware.

---

If something needs to get banned, I doubt its Ephemerate. You still have Cloudshift in that case, which essentially serves the same purpose.

Well see. Its a cute combo, but filling your deck with mostly do-nothing cards like Ephemerate doesnt seem like something you want to do, even for a nice payoff like that. Plus its a 4-card combo to pull off turn 1, so Im not particularly concerned about the implications.

---

The Mana Sword posted...

If something needs to get banned, I doubt its Ephemerate. You still have Cloudshift in that case, which essentially serves the same purpose.

Well see. Its a cute combo, but filling your deck with mostly do-nothing cards like Ephemerate doesnt seem like something you want to do, even for a nice payoff like that. Plus its a 4-card combo to pull off turn 1, so Im not particularly concerned about the implications.

Ephemerate is so infinitely better than cloud shift. Remember this deck also 4Xs Wall of omens. Ephemerate is a 1 mana divination

---

I know Ephemerate is better, I'm just saying for the purposes of doing the turn 1 blink Grief combo, they're essentially the same.

---