Current Events > I see why people call The Last Jedi awful now

(+) Yeah! (+)

Rey and Kylo were the worst protagonist/antagonist duo in sw

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They actually need to hire a director thats a Star Wars enthusiast

the mandalorian proves that. Just do the same for the fucking core movies for god sakes

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It is shit, but from my perspective most of Star Wars is kinda shit, even the original trilogy is like in the 6-8 range at best and those are the movies the rest of them look terrible in comparison to.

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TLJ could have been amazing if they changed a few scenes and cut out the casino part. I still think its my favorite of the trilogy.

gna647 posted...

They actually need to hire a director thats a Star Wars enthusiast

the mandalorian proves that. Just do the same for the fucking core movies for god sakes

Mandalorian is kinda bland af, tbh.

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COVxy posted...

Mandalorian is kinda bland af, tbh.

This, and other wrong opinions, coming soon to a theater near you!

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COVxy posted...

Mandalorian is kinda bland af, tbh.

Hey at least it doesn't suck major dunkey balls.

Although I don't think 8 specifically was that bad. But 7 and 9? Yikes

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The ST had potential to be good, but they got the wrong people to create it. It feels like a ripoff of star wars. To make a good star wars, you need actual fans of the material and lore to create it. Not only that, but the characters...feel out of place? I don't know. They just don't feel like star wars characters. I don't know if it's the actors or what, but something just feels off about the ST.

gna647 posted...

They actually need to hire a director thats a Star Wars enthusiast

the mandalorian proves that. Just do the same for the fucking core movies for god sakes

All of this.

gna647 posted...

They actually need to hire a director thats a Star Wars enthusiast

Good news! Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams are huge Star Wars fans.

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Johnson isn't at all IIRC but i think you're right on Abrams

Girl Jedi can move mountains but boy Jedi need to train for years to move a rock

Neckhomachus posted...

Johnson isn't at all IIRC but i think you're right on Abrams

Johnson has been pretty vocal about how much of a Star Wars geek he is.

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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Johnson has been pretty vocal about how much of a Star Wars geek he is.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/03/03/star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-rian-johnson-admits-he-didnt-care-about-star-wars-canon-and-history/

I guess that's what I was thinking of, which granted doesn't necessarily make him not a fan

postcall posted...

Girl Jedi can move mountains but boy Jedi need to train for years to move a rock

Years? Luke got one training session on a hyperdrive road trip and was able to use the force to freehand launch a torpedo at a target the computers were missing.

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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Johnson has been pretty vocal about how much of a Star Wars geek he is.

big if true
that makes the whole thing even more embarrassing for him

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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Johnson has been pretty vocal about how much of a Star Wars geek he is.

Are they EU enthusiasts? This is what most hyper star wars nerds are looking for. Not just fans of the OT movies. The type of dude that knew what beskar was before the Mandalorian, and get giddy when a clone yells Malachor in the Clone Wars.

I'm genuinely curious, but don't care enough to check myself.

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Jabodie posted...

Are they EU enthusiasts? This is what most hyper star wars nerds are looking for. Not just fans of the OT movies. The type of dude that knew what beskar was before the Mandalorian, and get giddy when a clone yells Malachor in the Clone Wars.

fwiw i wasn't thinking along these lines. idk shit about star wars beyond the movies, the samurai jack cartoon, and a couple games here and there

Neckhomachus posted...

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/03/03/star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-rian-johnson-admits-he-didnt-care-about-star-wars-canon-and-history/

I guess that's what I was thinking of, which granted doesn't necessarily make him not a fan

eww Bounding Into Comics.

Gonna need a different source. Preferably one that isn't from a fake news hate rag,

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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

eww Bounding Into Comics.

Gonna need a different source. Preferably one that isn't from a fake news hate rag,

was unaware my bad, just clicked the first one i saw. never heard of the site

the information was allegedly gleaned from this interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v98NTr4D5PE&feature=emb_title

gna647 posted...

They actually need to hire a director thats a Star Wars enthusiast

They did that. Abrams is a huge Star Wars fan.

And being that, he was too scared to do anything interesting.

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Akagami_Shanks posted...

nothing in this movie makes sense

Spoken like a kid who grew up with the shitty PT.

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Another case of fans thinking they could do better than actual directors and producers.

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Nobody gives a shit what a qanoner thinks about anything

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postcall posted...

Girl Jedi can move mountains but boy Jedi need to train for years to move a rock

You can thank George Lucas's shitty writing and pure misunderstanding of the Force for that.

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EliteGuard99 posted...

You can thank George Lucas's shitty writing and pure misunderstanding of the Force for that.

he misunderstood what he made up? what?

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None of the individual ST movies are any good as part of a trilogy because fucking no one had the common sense to put together an entire narrative before making the movies.

The PT was bad in so many ways, but the narrative was at least cohesive. Even if any of the ST movies were 10/10 on their own, the trilogy is still shitty and stupid.

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The Trent posted...

he misunderstood what he made up? what?

Happens more often than you'd think. A creator can make a new type of magic/ability, give it rules, and then break the rules.

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Funny thing is even after knowing how much the series sucks to you, you'll prolly still watch the new trilogy once it comes out. I hope yall know this about yourself at the very least.

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Rian Johnson should have been given a standalone trilogy that went to the Game of Thrones directors and they should have let Abrams just make the whole main trilogy. Episode 9 was such a mess in part because Abrams was trying to salvage plot threads he wanted to carry through that Johnson ignored, and the middle movie in a huge trilogy isn't the best time to hand the reins to a small experimental director who famously stated that he wanted to make a movie that half the audience hated.

Edit: just in case people aren't familiar with the quote I'm talking about.
https://twitter.com/Dataracer117/status/996486979578662912?s=20

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The Trent posted...

he misunderstood what he made up? what?

Since the OT was a labor of love created by a group of passionate people, and the PT was created by one inept narcissist, and the OT and the PT have very different ideas of how the Force works, yes George Lucas probably either:
1) Didn't have much of a hand in the Force's creation, and thus didn't know about it.
2) Did have a hand in it but retconed how the Force worked to fit his own shitty writing.
3) Was lazy as fuck and didn't care, which makes sense since George Lucas isn't an artist and is a shrewd businessman.


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Veggeta X posted...

Funny thing is even after knowing how much the series sucks to you, you'll prolly still watch the new trilogy once it comes out. I hope yall know this about yourself at the very least.

Nah I haven't seen a SW movie since TLJ, lost interest. Mando season 1 was cool but it was at its worst anytime it reminded me it was Star Wars

King_Hutton posted...

The PT was bad in so many ways, but the narrative was at least cohesive

LOL, literally nothing of importance happens in the first two movies, they were just to sell toys and make George that sweet, sweet merchandising $$$.

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Neckhomachus posted...

Nah I haven't seen a SW movie since TLJ, lost interest. Mando season 1 was cool but it was at its worst anytime it reminded me it was Star Wars

Congrats you're the exception while the rest of the people will go in full cosplay for the next movies which they claim to hate.

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King_Hutton posted...

because fucking no one had the common sense to put together an entire narrative before making the movies.

This is commonly cited as the big failing of the ST, but honestly I don't think it ultimately tracks. You can have no plan at all and succeed in a series (see the MCU up to Avengers) or you could have everything meticulously charted out and still fall flat on your face (see the DCCU).

I'm not saying the ST wouldn't have benefited from such a plan, just that it's not a slam dunk to point to the lack of narrative planning as the ultimate culprit.

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Nazanir posted...

As much as it was a rehash of a New Hope, The Force Awakens is in my humble opinion the best one out of the trilogy.

It is by no means perfect and has it's own problems, but at least it's the most coherent film out of the three without too many big offenses/stupid ass pulls like the hyperjump crash, the miraculous return of Palpatine, the scene were Rose destroys the resistance or the fucking green space cow milk.

People say this but TFA is rife with instances where major plot points aren't explained at all within the movie. Back when the movie came out and fans would point this out the defense was always like "well they have 2 more movies to explain those things", which we now know didn't happen because every movie in the trilogy was doing its own random thing with no overarching story structure.

Anakin's lightsaber and Maz's "that's a story for another time" is the most meme'd about example of TFA not even trying to explain its plot points. But a more important one that I don't see pointed out enough is the entire map plot. The map to Luke that works as the main macguffin of the movie that both the good guys and the bad guys are trying to get their hands on. Nothing about it makes any sense. Thing like "who was the old guy in the beginning of the movie and why did he have a piece of the map?" or "R2D2 at the end of the movie apparently had the entire map the entire time?" He was just in his robot coma and so he didn't get a chance to tell everyone? And why is the beep boop droid of all characters the one who goes into a coma of depression?

In interviews outside of the movie we learn that apparently R2D2 downloaded the map to that planet that Luke went to in Episode IV when he connected to the Death Star computer. But that's not mentioned in the films so if you were a normal person who just watches the movies you'd be wondering how that plotline resolution worked at all. I think a lot of fans just gloss over the map stuff because it was a dumb driving plot point to begin with and that's why it doesn't get the same amount of attention as other more interesting plotlines that also don't get explained at all in the ST, like Anakin's lightsaber, the "Holdo maneuver", "Palpatine has somehow returned", etc.

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CyricZ posted...

This is commonly cited as the big failing of the ST, but honestly I don't think it ultimately tracks. You can have no plan at all and succeed in a series (see the MCU up to Avengers) or you could have everything meticulously charted out and still fall flat on your face (see the DCCU).

I'm not saying the ST wouldn't have benefited from such a plan, just that it's not a slam dunk to point to the lack of narrative planning as the ultimate culprit.

I feel like the no plan thing is thrown out there by Johnson fans as an excuse, when Abrams/Ridley mentioned that he had plans for all three movies and gave Johnson notes for things he wanted including an episode 8 so they could carry forward to episode 9 and he ignored them.

The problem wasn't that they didn't have a plan. It's that Johnson ignored the plan and then Abrams, rather than just suck it up and rewrite episode 9, tried to jam all of the development that he was hoping for into one movie and it turned into a mess.

Source:
https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/star-wars-rian-johnson-scrapped-jj-abrams-episode-viii-script/

Heres what I think I know. J.J. wrote Episode VII, as well as drafts for VIII & IX, Ridley said. Then Rian Johnson arrived and wrote TLJ entirely. I believe there was some sort of general consensus on the main lines of the trilogy, but apart from that, every director writes and realizes his film in his own way.

Rian Johnson and J. J. Abrams met to discuss all of this, although Episode VIII is still his very own work, Ridley explained of Abrams involvement with The Last Jedi. I believe Rian didnt keep anything from the first draft of Episode VIII.

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EliteGuard99 posted...

LOL, literally nothing of importance happens in the first two movies, they were just to sell toys and make George that sweet, sweet merchandising $$$.

I dont mean to jerk off the narrative as something amazing but the movies are just shitty enough that a fine story gets lost in boring broody Anakin being annoying and Padme not showing any emotion.

CyricZ posted...

This is commonly cited as the big failing of the ST, but honestly I don't think it ultimately tracks. You can have no plan at all and succeed in a series (see the MCU up to Avengers) or you could have everything meticulously charted out and still fall flat on your face (see the DCCU).

I'm not saying the ST wouldn't have benefited from such a plan, just that it's not a slam dunk to point to the lack of narrative planning as the ultimate culprit.

Oh Im not saying that wouldve guaranteed anything, Im just saying its completely unforgivable to know youre making the most anticipated trilogy of a generation and not even figuring out the story first.

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So much better than the dogshit prequels

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CyricZ posted...

They did that. Abrams is a huge Star Wars fan.

And being that, he was too scared to do anything interesting.

Exactly

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yOu hAtE It bEcAuSe yOuR FaN ThEoRy wAs wRoNg

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Freddie_Mercury posted...

yOu hAtE It bEcAuSe yOuR FaN ThEoRy wAs wRoNg

ngl it irks me when ppl say this.

"you just wanted luke skywalker to be goku!"

no one wanted that

Rise of the Skywalker was so bad and predictable that it retroactively made me appreciate The Last Jedi for at least trying to be different.

The problem I have with TLJ is, as most of the people here have said, the plot isn't nearly as clever or consistent as it thinks it is. I don't know how anyone could think Holdo exemplified a new attitude towards military leadership - she struck me as being irritating and her lack of adequate communication even to her closest officers / crew were ultimately what resulted in the predicted outcome. The "big reveal" that she had a plan all along and that Poe and Co should've been ashamed of themselves for not trusting her was completely nuts.

If I was in Poe's position, watching literally 95% of the entire Rebel alliance get mowed down while my commanding officer seemingly had no plan other than "keep going forward until we run out of fuel" I'd mutiny too.


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Trelve posted...

For someone who actually thought The Last Jedi was the best Star Wars film since Empire, it really annoys me that Rise of Skywalker ignored everything that happened in TLJ. It was basically a sequel to The Force Awakens.

So you dont like TRoS even though TLJ did the same thing to TFA?

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pres_madagascar posted...

Part of what made the prequels so lame was too many lightsabers. They lost their mystique and cool factor when everyone and their mom had one.

I dont really get this criticism cuz prequels were supposed to be during the Jeid's heyday

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<a onclick="return show_quoted_message(400, 79143171, 947767782, '167fd226');" href="/boards/400-current-events/79143171/947767782"><a onclick="return show_quoted_message(400, 79143171, 947767782, '167fd226');" href="/boards/400-current-events/79143171/947767782"><a onclick="return show_quoted_message(400, 79143171, 947767782, '167fd226');" href="/boards/400-current-events/79143171/947767782">ViewtifulGrave posted... </a></a></a>

So you dont like TRoS even though TLJ did the same thing to TFA?

As far as I recall, the only thing that TLJ "ignored" really was subverting expectations with Rey's origin. Which combined with Broom Kid is a much better theme than TRoS's thing about how only your last name matters.

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The ST is pretty bad but the PT isnt much better. The original 3 will always be the best.

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