Current Events > Zizek is kind of right about participatory democracies/communism

(+) Yeah! (+)

does anyone actually want to to go weekly means of production management meetings in addition to their actual job?

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yes. absolutely.

especially given that if the working class were properly emancipated as in such a situation these actual jobs of ours would occupy like 10-20 hours of our week instead 40-70, as was predicted would be the case by now by mainsream economists of the early part of the previous century.

Omnislasher posted...

yes. absolutely.

especially given that if the working class were properly emancipated as in such a situation these actual jobs of ours would occupy like 10-20 hours of our week instead 40-70, as was predicted would be the case by now by mainsream economists of the early part of the previous century.

Well yeah. A lot of private sector jobs would stop existing and a lot more people would be working similar jobs in the same cost centers. But I wouldn't be able to guess the actual numbers to the point I'd tell you how long everyone would have to work. Also for efficiency sake people would still be working as much as possible, it doesn't make sense to drastically half labour supply like that. You want people to work, as a socialist. I think over all people would still have a bit more free time, or free time would be more fairly distributed, though.

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I don't even want to do my job

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Balrog0 posted...

I don't even want to do my job

I know right. It takes a special kind of person to want to do additional administrative work. But such people do exist, even if it's kind of imbricated with people pursuing power,

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

A lot of private sector jobs would stop existing and a lot more people would be working similar jobs in the same cost centers. But I wouldn't be able to guess the actual numbers to the point I'd tell you how long everyone would have to work.

fortunately, there are people who are able to make reasonable guesses about those numbers.

plus, once the administrative meetings are up and running, they won't take very much time or require much effort.

I think zizek is getting hung up on peoples' current working conditions -- obviously if I've worked 8 hours already that day I don't want to spend another 2 hours in a meeting, but what if the regular work day were, say, 6 hours and the meeting was scheduled as part of that every week?

it's also worth noting that a system like this would make it much easier for people to change jobs and prevent it from getting overly tedious, and such meetings would greatly facilitate this -- maybe on monday and tuesday I'm a janitor, at the end of the day tuesday we have a meeting, then wednesday I do a different job.

shorter hours and more flexibility in the amount of work you do, in exchange for a 2-hour meeting every week that's also part of the work day? that seems like a pretty good deal to me

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I think this kinda leads into Crimethinc's "your politics are boring as fuck"

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It's fine but a lot of the people that would be enthusiastic about it are power driven


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Politics posted...

I think this kinda leads into Crimethinc's "your politics are boring as fuck"

cool, a slogan

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Yeah, if during those meetings I can propose shortening our work hours.

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1337toothbrush posted...

Yeah, if during those meetings I can propose shortening our work hours.

by hiring a few more people.

the system supports itself.

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

It's fine but a lot of the people that would be enthusiastic about it are power driven

I'm still not seeing a problem here

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averagejoel posted...

I'm still not seeing a problem here

I'm not saying there is a problem, I'm saying I don't like it and would be at odds. I mean if there is no singular leader then there is always going to be infighting as people vie for power.

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MedeaLysistrata posted...

I'm not saying there is a problem, I'm saying I don't like it and would be at odds.

at odds with what?

I mean if there is no singular leader then there is always going to be infighting as people vie for power.

that also happens when there is a singular leader

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