Current Events > I don't like where Microsoft is trying to take gaming

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's obvious what they're trying to do - it's the same thing they tried to do back in 2013. Eliminate physical game ownership, except this time they're trying to take it further by heavily promoting subscription services. That alone isn't necessarily so bad, but think back to how Microsoft handled launch titles on Xbox One. The microtransactions were absolutely insane, borderline with freemium cell phone games.

Halo Infinite and to a lesser extent Flight Simulator are previews of this new era they've envisioned of keeping you hooked to a subscription service by releasing unfinished games that can be added to later. This is a stark contrast to Sony's model of big budget single player epics like Horizon, TloU, Bloodborne, etc.

All the fluff aside, I don't think the kinds of games that are starting show up on Game Pass are actually fun to play.

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My gripe is it seems silly to release a shiny new console with all this power, but no games to match the gen. It's literally just a gamepass machine good for games that are on every xbox console except the console that it's got power for.

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I don't recall many Xbox One launch titles that had egregious microtransactions. And releasing unfinished games seems to be the new norm long before subscription services became a part of the conversation.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

I don't recall many Xbox One launch titles that had egregious microtransactions. And releasing unfinished games seems to be the new norm long before subscription services became a part of the conversation.

It was absolutely awful, literally every single aspect of Ryse was monetized. You could actually pay to level up.

And Forza was unbelievable.


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They just delayed Halo Infinite for a unspecified period of time. By your logic this didn't need to happen. I don't see much difference in Flight Simulator compared to other Simulator games either. Do you think the game lacks content? It has the whole goddamn world in it.

They released several games this year with no microtransactions.

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It actually lowers the barrier to entry for the hobby. I think it's fantastic.

Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo aren't competing against each other. They're all taking very different approaches and have they're own set of consumers.
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Darmik posted...

They just delayed Halo Infinite for a unspecified period of time.

They released several games this year with no microtransactions.

They delayed Halo Infinite because in its current state it would probably make the average consumer think the PS5 is more powerful.

Plus, it was probably just unfinished in general.

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ArianaGrandSlam posted...

Sonys doing it too, and Valve spearheaded the charge in a way more insidious than Microsoft, but no-one cared about that because epic GabeN man

Owning physical games on PC sucks.

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DarkRoast posted...

They delayed Halo Infinite because in its current state it would probably make the average consumer think the PS5 is more powerful.

Plus, it was probably just unfinished in general.

It's on Xbox One though. So that wouldn't matter.

Again going by your logic. It probably would be better if they kept Halo Infinite at launch feeling unfinished. But they didn't.

I don't know what games they've released in the last couple of years that feel unfinished anyway.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

Owning physical games on PC sucks.

This. No one has a disk drive anymore, and I have so many PC games I'd never have space for them all.

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DarkRoast posted...

I don't think the kinds of games that are starting show up on Game Pass are actually fun to play.

The most recent additions to Game Pass include Crusader Kings III, RE7, Destiny 2... I'm just not really sure where this take is coming from
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Darmik posted...

It's on Xbox One though. So that wouldn't matter.

Again going by your logic. It probably would be better if they kept Halo Infinite at launch feeling unfinished. But they didn't.

I don't know what games they've released in the last couple of years that feel unfinished anyway.

Microsoft hasn't really released any games in the past few years. Certainly not major ones.

As someone who has owned every Xbox at launch since the original, I just don't trust Microsoft anymore. Even the Xbox 360, which was by far the better option near launch, turned out to be a cluster**** compared to the ps3. I remember having to buy a VGA cable just to output 1080p and the stupidly expensive Wi-Fi adapter just to play online.

And even after all that, the hard drive was only 20 GB, which was basically unusable after a few years due to increasing game size. At least the PS3 supported laptop hard drives. And had hdmi. And wi-fi.

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Antifar posted...

The most recent additions to Game Pass include Crusader Kings III, RE7, Destiny 2... I'm just not really sure where this take is coming from

Streets of Rage 4 is one of the most fun games from this year.

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Master_Bass posted...

This. No one has a disk drive anymore, and I have so many PC games I'd never have space for them all.

I don't think it's fair to compare PC gaming and console gaming when it comes to discs, if for no other reason than PC gaming affords you dozens of options for game ownership, whereas a console is a walled garden entirely.


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DarkRoast posted...

Microsoft hasn't really released any games in the past few years. Certainly not major ones.

As someone who has owned every Xbox at launch since the original, I just don't trust Microsoft anymore. Even the Xbox 360, which was by far the better option near launch, turned out to be a cluster**** compared to the ps3. I remember having to buy a VGA cable just to output 1080p and the stupidly expensive Wi-Fi adapter just to play online.

And even after all that, the hard drive was only 20 GB, which was basically unusable after a few years due to increasing game size. At least the PS3 supported laptop hard drives. And had hdmi. And wi-fi.

They funded the rest of the development of Wasteland 3 which just came out to rave reviews. Completely single player with no transactions and launched day one on Game Pass.

Flight Simulator also got rave reviews. No idea how that game is unfinished.

Tell Me Why and Battletoads seem to be liked by their respective audiences.

All of these came out in the last month.

The Minecraft Ray Tracing demo you constantly wank over was also developed by a Microsoft studio. You seem pretty glad they kept working on that one.

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DarkRoast posted...

Eliminate physical game ownership, except this time they're trying to take it further by heavily promoting subscription services.

You're about 10 years late on catching on.

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Tbqh it may not seem that way right now, but the only possible way game pass could possibly be viable while they continue to produce big budget games is if they load that shit up with microtransactions

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mattymad posted...

Don't blame Microsoft, everyone is going this way.

Investors, stake/stockholders, board members etc all love ARR, anual returning revenue. A measurable, predictable number of cash coming in. It's taken over everything.

We no longer buy music due to spotify. We no longer buy movies due to netflix. You can't buy Photoshop, it's now a subscription, etc.

We call it Software as a Service, or SAAS in the industry. I saw it coming with how game stores like Epic, PS+, Gamepass etc... basically market research has said it's the future so a lot of people are going all in.

Soon we won't own our games, even digitally. We will simply rent them as part of a subscription, till we stop paying, thatal service removes them or shuts down.

Nintendo has already effectively done this by shutting down the Wii Shop. All your purchases are now gone.

Sony and Microsoft have kept up their online services for Xbox 360 and PS3, partly to avoid this controversy, but also because there's some crossplay between the generations.

I suspect it's only a matter of time before some of these things are removed.

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TheGoldenEel posted...

Tbqh it may not seem that way right now, but the only possible way game pass could possibly be viable while they continue to produce big budget games is if they load that shit up with microtransactions

And that's the thing, I remember thinking this exact issue when Game Pass first came out and they boasted about all their games being on Game Pass day one.

I can't think of a single game Microsoft has released (first party at least) day one on Game Pass that isn't at least loaded with microtransactions, except for maybe Crackdown 3.

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DarkRoast posted...

Nintendo has already effectively done this by shutting down the Wii Shop. All your purchases are now gone.

You don't lose games you already have; you just can't buy them again.
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DarkRoast posted...

Nintendo has already effectively done this by shutting down the Wii Shop. All your purchases are now gone.

Sony and Microsoft have kept up their online services for Xbox 360 and PS3, partly to avoid this controversy, but also because there's some crossplay between the generations.

I suspect it's only a matter of time before some of these things are removed.

Microsoft moved over the 360 stuff to their Xbox One marketplace so they'll be fine.

Sony probably will shut it down first because they don't have BC.

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Antifar posted...

You don't lose games you already have; you just can't buy them again.

No, you can't download them either.


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DarkRoast posted...

I can't think of a single game Microsoft has released (first party at least) day one on Game Pass that isn't at least loaded with microtransactions, except for maybe Crackdown 3.

Ori and the Will of the Wisps comes to mind
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Darmik posted...

Microsoft moved over the 360 stuff to their Xbox One marketplace so they'll be fine.

Sony probably will shut it down first because they don't have BC.

As someone who actually really likes her Xbox One X, not every title is actually downloadable on Xbox One.

Plus, there's weird bullshit like Doom XBLA suddenly no longer being available to redownload when the Xbox One port went on sale. Even if you had already bought it, like I did.

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Antifar posted...

Ori and the Will of the Wisps comes to mind

I absolutely love Ori, but let's be honest, it's not exactly The Last of Us 2 in development cost.

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DarkRoast posted...

I absolutely love Ori, but let's be honest, it's not exactly The Last of Us 2 in development cost.

Theres also that it was just published by Microsoft, not developed by them

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DarkRoast posted...

And that's the thing, I remember thinking this exact issue when Game Pass first came out and they boasted about all their games being on Game Pass day one.

I can't think of a single game Microsoft has released (first party at least) day one on Game Pass that isn't at least loaded with microtransactions, except for maybe Crackdown 3.

Ori and the Will of the Wisps
Gears Tactics
Battletoads
Tell Me Why
Minecraft Dungeons

Those all came out this year. I don't think games like State of Decay 2 did either.

I haven't included Wasteland 3 since technically they didn't publish it. But they let InXile use Microsoft funding to polish up the game. Which they're also doing with Psychonauts 2.

TheGoldenEel posted...

Theres also that it was just published by Microsoft, not developed by them

So? Publishers make those sort of decisions.

Not sure why the goalposts have to keep moving.

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So are you going to get a XSX or XSS?

Or are you going PS5?

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Darmik posted...

Ori and the Will of the Wisps
Gears Tactics
Battletoads
Tell Me Why
Minecraft Dungeons

Those all came out this year. I don't think games like State of Decay 2 did either.

I haven't included Wasteland 3 since technically they didn't publish it. But they let InXile use Microsoft funding to polish up the game. Which they're also doing with Psychonauts 2.

So? Publishers make those sort of decisions.

Not sure why the goalposts have to keep moving.

I beat Minecraft Dungeons on PC Game Pass. What a horribly disappointing game.

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DarkRoast posted...

Microsoft hasn't really released any games in the past few years. Certainly not major ones.

there were a couple good xbox games in the last two years - forza horizon 4, gears 5, ori 2, wasteland 3, etc. honestly i kind of like microsoft's approach to games, they have a pretty diverse lineup of arcade shit, nerdy western rpgs, AAA games, multiplayer stuff etc. super cinematic games with emotional storylines get exhausting after a while, TLOU2 was fun to play through once but I keep going back to Horizon 4 to flip my car off sand dunes.

i think game pass is pretty good overall but my primary issue with gamepass is pretty simple, i hate paying monthly subscriptions for stuff and game pass is full of games in the "that looks alright, I guess I'd play it if it was free" category. that's fine if you play video games all day but now as an adult my time is more limited and id rather play one really good game than divide my time among a million mediocre ones

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DarkRoast posted...

I absolutely love Ori, but let's be honest, it's not exactly The Last of Us 2 in development cost.

RDR2 was on Game Pass until two days ago if that's what you care about.

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DarkRoast posted...

No, you can't download them either.

Um yes you can. Any game you bought on Xbox Marketplace can be redownloaded even after a de-listing. Youre just making things up.

Romulox28 posted...

there were a couple good xbox games in the last two years - forza horizon 4, gears 5, ori 2, wasteland 3, etc. honestly i kind of like microsoft's approach to games, they have a pretty diverse lineup of arcade shit, nerdy western rpgs, AAA games, multiplayer stuff etc. super cinematic games with emotional storylines get exhausting after a while, TLOU2 was fun to play through once but I keep going back to Horizon 4 to flip my car off sand dunes.

i think game pass is pretty good overall but my primary issue with gamepass is pretty simple, i hate paying monthly subscriptions for stuff and game pass is full of games in the "that looks alright, I guess I'd play it if it was free" category. that's fine if you play video games all day but now as an adult my time is more limited and id rather play one really good game than divide my time among a million mediocre ones

This is why I've strangely gravitated to Switch.


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CruelBuffalo posted...

Um yes you can. Any game you bought on Xbox Marketplace can be redownloaded even after a de-listing. Youre just making things up.

I was talking about the Wii Shop

It's closed. Period. Your purchases are gone.

Actually I just checked - apparently they can be redownloaded on Wii U.

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Microsoft does have an issue with their first parties. But that was an issue long before Game Pass. They've ahd this problem since like 2011.

Game Pass has actually given them the incentive to improve. They have bought a shitload of studios since they've started. But it takes time for these studios to make games. Studios like InXile and Double Fine are only now wrapping up commitments they made before they were purchased.

Obsidian and InXile are making AAA WRPG's
The Initiative is making some sort of AAA game as well
Playground Games is making a AAA WRPG
I really doubt Hellblade 2 will be some game filled with microtransactions

These games take time. It's a shame that this stuff wasn't ready for launch window but they're still catching up from their dumbass moves from 2011-2015.

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DarkRoast posted...

I was talking about the Wii Shop

Well Microsoft has not gone that route and you have been able to redownload games since the 360 and can use them on your Xbox Series X. Hell their marketplace spans 4 console generations of being able to play on the same system once Series X is released. Microsoft has been by far the best at being a pro-consumer digital marketplace. So direct that energy at Sony and Nintendo.

If you wanna buy the games, buy them, if you want to use a Netflix service use gamepass.

btw I misread the quotes, so sorry, but I dont think you should use Nintendos blatant anti-consumer e-commerce with Microsofts and you shouldnt correlate the two

Oh no, Microsoft is making gaming more accessible to the masses. This is definitely the worst thing ever the topic.

If Sony was doing this, yall be so happy about it.

Like, I seriously dont see why youre so upset by Microsoft bringing more games to more people cheaply.
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I will at least say that PC digital distribution is better for keeping old games past their generation of release (with a few exceptions)

GOG especially, since even stuff like SimCity 3000 Unlimited they've updated to work on new PCs

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FL81 posted...

I will at least say that PC digital distribution is better for keeping old games past their generation of release (with a few exceptions)

GOG especially, since even stuff like SimCity 3000 Unlimited they've updated to work on new PCs

For what it's worth, I do find it irritating that Steam doesn't make it clear that some older games for sale won't work right. Crysis is a perfect example.


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DarkRoast posted...

For what it's worth, I do find it irritating that Steam doesn't make it clear that some older games for sale won't work right. Crysis is a perfect example.

There are several older titles I have on Steam that simply won't even launch on my computer, or if they do, they quickly glitch out.

tfw Linux w/ WINE sometimes offers better Windows legacy support than Windows 10 does

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

Oh no, Microsoft is making gaming more accessible to the masses. This is definitely the worst thing ever the topic.

If Sony was doing this, yall be so happy about it.

Like, I seriously dont see why youre so upset by Microsoft bringing more games to more people cheaply.

Imagine if Halo Infinite went cycled through a significant amount of contractors and the developers suffered severe crunch so they decided to just release the campaign for full price so they could then release the multiplayer later.

Naughty Dog did this and received rave reviews

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FL81 posted...

tfw Linux w/ WINE sometimes offers better Windows legacy support than Windows 10 does

TFW computer hardware has finally reached the point where Crysis can be maxed at 1080p at a good frame rate but Windows itself is no longer compatible

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Darmik posted...

Imagine if Halo Infinite went cycled through a significant amount of contractors and the developers suffered severe crunch so they decided to just release the campaign for full price so they could then release the multiplayer later.

Naughty Dog did this and received rave reviews

I don't think I've ever actually played the multiplayer in any of Naughty Dog's games.

To be fair, I didn't like The Last of Us either.

Actually, now that I think about it, the only one I really liked was Uncharted 2. That game was amazing though.

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Coffeebeanz still a massive Sony fan girl after all these years with the Sony shilling and Microsoft bashing

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YourDrunkFather posted...

Coffeebeanz still a massive Sony fan girl after all these years with the Sony shilling and Microsoft bashing

Are you kidding, the PS5 looks like Sony at its absolute worst, the smug assholes that made the PS3 are back.

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I wish Nintendo's back was always against the wall so we could have 2017 Nintendo every year

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If the Xbox moves further away from physical games, Ill probably switch to PS5 for next gen.

I dont buy games full price usually. Physical copies get discounted far faster than the dl versions

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