Current Events > University of California System can't use SAT and ACT tests for admissions,...

(+) Yeah! (+)

...judge rules

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/01/us/university-of-california-sat-act-trnd/index.html

The University of California system can no longer use ACT and SAT tests as a determinant for admissions, a superior court judge has ruled, handing a victory to students with disabilities.
The "test optional" policy at most UC campuses affords privileged, non-disabled students a "second look" in admissions, said Brad Seligman, the Alameda County Superior Court Judge who issued the preliminary injunction in the case of Kawika Smith v. Regents of the University of California on Tuesday.
At the same time, he said, a "second look" would be denied to less privileged students and students with disabilities who are unable to access the tests. Therefore, the conclusion is to do away with the tests all together.

The news comes months after the university system waived the standardized testing requirements until 2024, after its Board of Regents voted unanimously. A news release from May stated that if a new test hadn't emerged by 2025, the system would eliminate the standardized testing requirement for California students.
But the judge's ruling Monday went even further, prohibiting the consideration of scores from students who still chose to submit them.
"The current COVID 19 pandemic has resulted in restrictions in the availability of test sites," Seligman said in his ruling. "While test-taking opportunities for all students have been limited, for persons with disabilities, the ability to obtain accommodations or even to locate suitable test locations for the test are 'almost nil'."
In a statement, a spokesperson for the University of California said it "respectfully disagrees with the Court's ruling."
"An injunction may interfere with the University's efforts to implement an appropriate and comprehensive admissions policies and its ability to attract and enroll students of diverse backgrounds and experiences," the spokesperson said.
The UC system said it is considering further legal action in the case, and pointed to an increase in admission of low-income and first-generation-to-college-students for fall 2020.
SAT and ACT did not immediate respond to CNN's requests for comment.
The plaintiffs in Kawika Smith v. Regents of the University of California are five individual students and six organizations: College Access Plan, Little Manila Rising, Dolores Huerta Foundation, College Seekers, Chinese for Affirmative Action, and Community Coalition.
As the largest university system in the country, the ruling on UC is monumental. Many students and advocates have pushed for the removal of these required standardized tests, arguing that they don't truly reflect a student's academic ability.
Research has repeatedly proved that students from wealthy families score higher on the SAT and ACT, compared to students from low-income families.
According to a 2015 analysis by Inside Higher Ed, the lowest average scores for each part of the SAT came from students with less than $20,000 in family income. The highest scores came from those with more than $200,000 in family income.
And when it comes to race, "Hispanic and African-American students from comparable socioeconomic families scored lower than their Asian-American and White peers," according to a 2013 paper titled "Race, Poverty and SAT Scores."
More than 50 schools have dropped the ACT/SAT requirement for fall 2021 requirements, given the ongoing health pandemic, with some opting for longer.

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A welcome and late change, but better late than never.

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We should we ban the MCAT next for Medical School

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I wonder how this impacts their plans to replace the SAT with their own in-house test within the next decade.

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Seems like a poor decision.

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

We should we ban the MCAT next for Medical School

Totally unrelated

Esrac posted...

Seems like a poor decision.

It's not if you know literally fucking anything about the history and research around using standardized testing for admissions.

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Geisterdrache posted...

Totally unrelated

How do you figure

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How would schools compare ability for students from different schools that may have very different standards?

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Is wealth discrepancy in scores an issue with the tests, or a result of differing access to high quality high school education?

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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

How do you figure

The MCAT is, as far as I'm aware, a content-based exam designed to assess one's aptitude within the field. It's also taken post-grad to enter medical school, no?

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Geisterdrache posted...

Totally unrelated

No it's not.


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Geisterdrache posted...

The MCAT is, as far as I'm aware, a content-based exam designed to assess one's aptitude within the field. It's also taken post-grad to enter medical school, no?

It's the same thing. People from low SES are at a great disadvantage with the MCAT as well.

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Makes sense

I had free access to SAT/ACT prep material because I lived in a good part of Atlanta while you couldn't say the same for a lot of other parts of the same city. And the relevance of SAT/ACT scores as soon as the first day of college started was nonexistent

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http://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2018-09-19/the-gpa-gap-rich-students-have-grades-inflated-more-often-than-poor-students

I still don't understand why we act like GPA is more meritocratic.

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MacadamianNut3 posted...

And the relevance of SAT/ACT scores as soon as the first day of college started was nonexistent

Are there any selection criteria this doesnt apply to?

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Im not really trying to take stance btw, its just that the status quo seems to solve standardization/comparability problems that dont go away by removing the exams and im curious about what the proposed alternatives are

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Time to lower standards to inflate grades

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g980 posted...

and im curious about what the proposed alternatives are

"Holistic approaches"

Meaning more "You're an Asian? Then you automatically receive a 0 on personality"

HiddenRoar posted...

"Holistic approaches"

Meaning more "You're an Asian? Then you automatically receive a 0 on personality"

That's why I've always favored things with clear cut answers. Better to get something objectively wrong than to be discounted because they don't like your clothes or some other bullshit.

I'd argue these holistic approaches favor the rich much more than standardized testing.

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bump

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one more

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Its about time

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We need to have more kids going to universities to get themselves into student debt.

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Geisterdrache posted...

A welcome and late change, but better late than never.

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Tldr: the SAT is now optional. Submitting a score can only help you not hurt you. Regardless of you thought about the SAT previously, this current situation is that people who pay a little money to College Board can only increase their chances to be admitted.

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NightRender posted...

Tldr: the SAT is now optional. Submitting a score can only help you not hurt you. Regardless of you thought about the SAT previously, this current situation is that people who pay a little money to College Board can only increase their chances to be admitted.

That is not at all what it means. Thank you, try again.

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Geisterdrache posted...

That is not at all what it means. Thank you, try again.

The "test optional" policy at most UC campuses affords privileged, non-disabled students a "second look" in admissions, said Brad Seligman, the Alameda County Superior Court Judge who issued the preliminary injunction in the case of Kawika Smith v. Regents of the University of California on Tuesday.
At the same time, he said, a "second look" would be denied to less privileged students and students with disabilities who are unable to access the tests. Therefore, the conclusion is to do away with the tests all together.

What do these sentences mean then? Please let me know how I'm misinterpreting.

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NightRender posted...

What do these sentences mean then? Please let me know how I'm misinterpreting.

NightRender posted...

Therefore, the conclusion is to do away with the tests all together.

That was before this change. Reading comprehension is fucking hard eh?

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Geisterdrache posted...

That was before this change. Reading comprehension is fucking hard eh?

Oh yeah. Of course. I meant that that was the status quo immediately prior to this ruling. I tried to clarify, because there was clearly a lot of people commenting without even trying to read the article.

And now I've just added to the confusion! Time to edit my post!

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I "prepared for the SAT" by doing a practice test the night before I took the test. That was all the extra preparation I did, besides regular school.

If it wasn't for my SAT score, I probably wouldn't have made it in. Not with my grades.

I wish they did away with the mandatory English 101 requirement, instead. What a stupid, pain in the ass class.

But of course that would put all those English TAs out of a job, so no chance.

closetjpopfan posted...

I wish they did away with the mandatory English 101 requirement, instead. What a stupid, pain in the ass class.

Yes, I can't imagine what use anyone could find in being taught how to properly communicate orally and in written form both in the professional realm and more specifically academia. Wild.

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What the fuck is happening in America dude
You have a perfectly objective and fair system and then you kill it
And yes I know about the criticisms of SATs

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awesome999 posted...

You have a perfectly objective and fair system and then you kill it

awesome999 posted...

And yes I know about the criticisms of SATs

:thinkingemoji:

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closetjpopfan posted...

I "prepared for the SAT" by doing a practice test the night before I took the test. That was all the extra preparation I did, besides regular school.

If it wasn't for my SAT score, I probably wouldn't have made it in. Not with my grades.

Same, but to be fair my college grades were just as bad as my hs grades.

But im also doing pretty well in the professional world. I think grades are mostly a measure of how good you are at getting good grades.

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Geisterdrache posted...

:thinkingemoji:

You can have the same inputs and come to wildly opposing conclusions, welcome to free thinking, aka what the west did so right and China did so wrong but what is about to reverse in a few decades

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Esrac posted...

Seems like a poor decision.

Spoken like someone who knows literally nothing about the tests.
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Geisterdrache posted...

Yes, I can't imagine what use anyone could find in being taught how to properly communicate orally and in written form both in the professional realm and more specifically academia. Wild.

Do you feel that English 100 is necessary if a Student manages to complete every other class for his/her degree (obviously excluding English degrees/where ENG100 is a prerequisite)?

they should replace SAT with IQ test

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Geisterdrache posted...

Yes, I can't imagine what use anyone could find in being taught how to properly communicate orally and in written form both in the professional realm and more specifically academia. Wild.

See, if you were to ask me, if you don't know how to properly communicate orally and in written form both in the professional realm and more specifically academia (at the level you're taught in English 101)... you probably shouldn't be going to college.

This is insane. I got into a good university thanks partly to my scores, as my school, as many others in my neighborhood, greatly inflated grades (as in, I got As while doing a lot less work than a student getting a B at a more rigorous school).

i dont think its a bad decision, but I wonder what colleges will use now to account for rampant grade inflation

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Good

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CA is getting really good at passing regressive legislation aimed at helping rich people but selling it as progressive policy.

awesome999 posted...

You can have the same inputs and come to wildly opposing conclusions, welcome to free thinking, aka what the west did so right and China did so wrong but what is about to reverse in a few decades

How to say nothing while pretending to say something, the post.

HiddenRoar posted...

Do you feel that English 100 is necessary if a Student manages to complete every other class for his/her degree (obviously excluding English degrees/where ENG100 is a prerequisite)?

Yep. I'm a big believer in the value of a well-rounded general education, and the skills learned there can be applied to any field and discipline.

closetjpopfan posted...

See, if you were to ask me, if you don't know how to properly communicate orally and in written form both in the professional realm and more specifically academia (at the level you're taught in English 101)... you probably shouldn't be going to college.

Good thing nobody is asking you then, as higher ed doesn't need any more institutionalized gatekeeping than it already has.

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

CA is getting really good at passing regressive legislation aimed at helping rich people but selling it as progressive policy.

You sure love pretending you know what you're talking about while saying absolutely nothing of substance don't you

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Geisterdrache posted...

You sure love pretending you know what you're talking about while saying absolutely nothing of substance don't you

On a board where almost no one knows what they're talking about I'm sure it looks like I'm the one who doesn't, yeah.

I personally only got into a good college due to a high SAT score, but we can definitely find a better way to do this than reducing people to 1/2 days of testing and inflated grades, while ignoring the actual person and life they lived.

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legendary_zell posted...

I personally only got into a good college due to a high SAT score, but we can definitely find a better way to do this than reducing people to 1/2 days of testing and inflated grades, while ignoring the actual person and life they lived.

Well I agree that more work needs to be done to make sure that you can't take something like the SAT and just buy your way into a better school though practice, I'm curious how you would quantify "actual person and the life they've lived" such that you can objectively compare two different people.

Like, in spirit the purpose of standardized testing is to measure somebody's readiness to minimize the number of people who go into college and then bomb out. Which aspects of a person do you feel best represent the qualities that make someone a good candidate for a good school and how do you compare them?

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s0nicfan posted...

Like, in spirit the purpose of standardized testing is to measure somebody's readiness to minimize the number of people who go into college and then bomb out.

GPA is a better predictor than SAT scores on college success. I can't find it now, but I recall a study that showed square footage of one's house (implying level of wealth and access) was also just as good if not better than SATs at predicting that. SATs test one's ability to take a test, not content knowledge.

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s0nicfan posted...

Well I agree that more work needs to be done to make sure that you can't take something like the SAT and just buy your way into a better school though practice, I'm curious how you would quantify "actual person and the life they've lived" such that you can objectively compare two different people.

Like, in spirit the purpose of standardized testing is to measure somebody's readiness to minimize the number of people who go into college and then bomb out. Which aspects of a person do you feel best represent the qualities that make someone a good candidate for a good school and how do you compare them?

The most effective thing to do would be to equalize the education system so there isn't such a huge disparity between students from different states, cites, or even streets within the same city. At the very least, the floor needs to be raised. Since that would essentially require a revolution at this point, that can't be the short term solution. Until then, there should be much higher investment in K-12 education, combined with universal test prep if we're going to parcel out life chances based on scores. The fundamental issue is caused by the racialized, gendered, regionalized, and class based divides in our society though.

The best indicators would be things that show long term work ethic and practical skills, not clearly associated with class. Community engagement, working while in school, etc, increase the benefits of accredit community colleges, Some of the stuff that's already taken into account. There needs to be more help for first generation and non-traditional students both before and during their freshman years. They could take statistical measures of the SES of the areas students come from and the student in particular and then compare that on an index. They could directly measure the skills of students through portfolios and projects or measure their attitudes through scientifically validated assessments of the traits that tend to predict success. They could also change the college environment to cater more to people who have different traits or if not, teach the traits that they feel are necessary.

And maybe standardization shouldn't be the main goal, because that tends to support an elite, gatekeeping mindframe on the part of colleges. Maybe the goal should be generating a positive environment, reflecting the community, and supporting each student, rather than being a lab for growing future alumni donors?

It's not easy, but it has to be done.

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