Current Events > Protesters set up a guillotine outside Jeff Bezos' mansion

(+) Yeah! (+)

Broseph_Stalin posted...

you'd think after two pages of this you'd just explain the real reason they brought a guillotine but alas

you furnish one example of a person falling to the guillotine at the hands of the proletariat in the past century and I'll tell you what really happened that day

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broseph_stalin: do you have hangups with the nooses as well?

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The Trent posted...

broseph_stalin: do you have hangups with the nooses as well?

yeah i kinda feel like a person who shows up with a noose at a black persons house is sending a very clear message but apparently as long as no one uses it for a while that's ok

that's not quite the question i was asking

do you so condemn the use of nooses in the way they are/were used as you do the guillotine and the way it is/was used?

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The Trent posted...

that's not quite the question i was asking

do you so condemn the use of nooses in the way they are/were used as you do the guillotine and the way it is/was used?

Yes? That's what I'm saying.

it needs to be really clear for some people
i don't think it can get a lot clearer than that

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

...there's no policy anywhere in either of those videos.

here's larry summers take on it which you won't read as well I'm sure

https://www.piie.com/system/files/documents/summers20171109paper.pdf

There's plenty of heavily biased policy discussion on that youtube channel. Same as with the Hoover Institution you boasted about as if it gave him credibility. Smart of you to back off that point.

Larry Summers is part of the same crowd and has said many disgusting things. Such as women lack the aptitude for science and essentially that the increasing wealth inequality in our society is a good thing.

This should dispel the mystery of why you think the way that you do.

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foreverzero212 posted...

There's plenty of heavily biased policy discussion on that youtube channel. Same as with the Hoover Institution you boasted about as if it gave him credibility. Smart of you to back off that point.

Larry Summers is part of the same crowd and has said many disgusting things. Such as women lack the aptitude for science and essentially that the increasing wealth inequality in our society is a good thing.

This should dispel the mystery of why you think the way that you do.

Broseph believes income inequality and austerity politics are good and necessary.


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foreverzero212 posted...

There's plenty of heavily biased policy discussion on that youtube channel. Same as with the Hoover Institution you boasted about as if it gave him credibility. Smart of you to back off that point.

I didn't back off anything.

My point is that data is continuously misinterpreted and that remains true. You can't refute it yourself so you have to engage in these bad faith attacks on people far more knowledgeable than you.

When Amazon built their new warehouse in New York, it drove local property values up significantly. Which meant higher rates for rent. Bezos absolutely owes those workers more than $15/hr

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

I didn't back off anything.

My point is that data is continuously misinterpreted and that remains true. You can't refute it yourself so you have to engage in these bad faith attacks on people far more knowledgeable than you.

Pretty rich coming from the guy that cites conservative libertarian propaganda and uses their think tanks as a sign of how credible and knowledgeable they are.

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foreverzero212 posted...

Pretty rich coming from the guy that cites conservative libertarian propaganda and uses their think tanks as a sign of how credible and knowledgeable they are.

I love how everyone from Russ Roberts (Stanford is too libertarian!) to Larry Summers (Obama is too libertarian?) is apparently not qualified to talk about this subject because GameFAQs user foreverzero212 says so.

Some of you are so embarrassingly obvious with this stuff.

https://www.stanforddaily.com/2019/02/08/de-ll-statement-on-the-hoover-institution/

Stanford itself is getting uncomfortable housing such a hack institution.

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You don't seem to understand.

When you call everyone from right-wing economist to left-wing economist illegitimate compared to you, a gamefaqs user who's yet to post anything meaningful because he knows absolutely nothing about the subject, it's very obvious you're just trolling.

also LOL at deleting your mediabias link because it rated the hoover institute highly in factual reporting

s0nicfan posted...

One day people will understand the difference between net worth and actual worth. His amazon stock amounts to around $133 billion, or roughly 2/3 of his net worth. The rest of his pay is security services and his salary of $80K which has been his yearly salary since Amazon went public. He has never been awarded stock as a bonus on top of his salary.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/amazon-ceo-jeff-bezos-has-made-the-same-salary-for-decades
-a-little-more-than-double-the-median-us-employees-pay-2020-04-16

So you're saying that workers should get a larger share of Amazon stocks, rather than a higher minimum wage up front

Makes sense to me

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Balrog0 posted...

So you're saying that workers should get a larger share of Amazon stocks, rather than a higher minimum wage up front

They used to do this actually, but workers preferred the higher wage.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

They used to do this actually, but workers preferred the higher wage.

What does that mean that they used to do this?

They quite obviously still do this to some extent.

How did workers demonstrate their preference?

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Did their union negotiate that?

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All I've done is call out Hoover Institution for bias so extreme that Stanford professors say its mission is in conflict with Stanford's (or any academic institution) mission.

I decided not to get into lame media fact checkers because I figured you'd complain. Here's what mediabias had to say about the Hoover Institution:
Overall, we rate Hoover Institution Right-Center biased based on economic positions that align with the conservative right.

The Hoover Institution publishes research that almost always favors the right such as this: A Progressive Plan That Aids Loan Sharks. Although this is classified as research, a review demonstrates an opinion piece that is not strongly sourced. Most articles on this website link to other sources rather original writing from Hoover.

They are a conservative libertarian propaganda machine masquerading opinions as research. No wonder actual Stanford professors and researchers want to give them the boot.

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Lord_Wombat posted...

By that logic everyone that worked for any corporation deserves $30 per hour

Maybe they do.

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hockeybub89 posted...

Maybe they do.

lol they don't

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Balrog0 posted...

They quite obviously still do this to some extent.

How did workers demonstrate their preference?

https://blog.aboutamazon.com/working-at-amazon/amazon-raises-minimum-wage-to-15-for-all-us-employees

foreverzero212 posted...

decided not to get into lame media fact checkers because I figured you'd complain.

No you deleted the link so no one would see this:

We also rate them High for factual reporting due to a clean fact check record.

Which you mysteriously left out of your second post quoting them

Not that any of this matters you also said the left-wing economist "doesn't count" either and it's just desperate trolling at this point.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

https://blog.aboutamazon.com/working-at-amazon/amazon-raises-minimum-wage-to-15-for-all-us-employees

No you deleted the link so no one would see this:

We also rate them High for factual reporting due to a clean fact check record.

Which you mysteriously left out of your second post quoting them

Not that any of this matters you also said the left-wing economist "doesn't count" either and it's just desperate trolling at this point.

Ah so the Amazon c-suite made a decision based on public pressure, clearly that's what workers wanted

You're not even trying

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Balrog0 posted...

You're not even trying

Trying to what? I'm just saying they replaced stock options with higher wages.

People here are so confrontational lol

Also I haven't been following that entire conversation but are you trying to say Larry summers is left wing?

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

Trying to what? I'm just saying they replaced stock options with higher wages.

People here are so confrontational lol

Trying to prove that the things you're saying are true.

You didn't just say they used to do something you said they changed it because workers preferred it


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Balrog0 posted...

You didn't just say they used to do something you said they changed it because workers preferred it

weve heard from our hourly fulfillment and customer service employees that they prefer the predictability and immediacy of cash to RSUs.

?

The Trent posted...

lol they don't

People can't even live on their own for under $15/hr. We can at least give them free healthcare or something. Maybe we can treat them like human beings and give them mandatory breaks and cap the length of shifts.

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So your evidence is literally Amazon's own press release?

Do you also believe they are lobbying for a higher minimum wage out of a concern for workers?


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Balrog0 posted...

So your evidence is literally Amazon's own press release?

Do you have a reason not to believe them? Or a reason as to why you're having a meltdown over this?

Broseph_Stalin posted...

Do you have a reason not to believe them? Or a reason as to why you're having a meltdown over this?

Bro if this is a meltdown then I guess you went nuclear last page over guillotines and um... People not respecting economists?... Don't be hypocritical

typically try to analyze motivations beyond press releases whether it's something I agree with or not

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

No you deleted the link so no one would see this:

We also rate them High for factual reporting due to a clean fact check record.

Which you mysteriously left out of your second post quoting them

Not that any of this matters you also said the left-wing economist "doesn't count" either and it's just desperate trolling at this point.

They were found to use actual facts by mediabias sure. That means nothing when they were also found to be not using enough facts and disguised poorly sourced opinion pieces as research to push an agenda. They work backwards from all conservative libertarian koch econ being correct rather than looking at data to better understand things. This is why Stanford researchers want to kick out this institution. Weird how you continue to ignore this part

What left wing economist are you talking about? Larry? He would laugh if you called him lefty. Working in Bill Clinton and Obama administrations doesn't make you left wing. I guess you think all the wall street bankers that took jobs under those presidents are left wing economists lmao. Besides you have insisted those presidents are moderates, not left wingers.

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foreverzero212 posted...

They were found to use actual facts by mediabias sure.

No, they were found to have high factual reporting due to a clean fact check record, meaning they do not lie. Isn't it weird how the left-leaning think tank the other person posted isn't being questioned by you? You have no self-awareness.

foreverzero212 posted...

What left wing economist are you talking about? Larry? He would laugh if you called him lefty. Working in Bill Clinton and Obama administrations doesn't make you left wing.

Do you think no one seriously notices the no true Scotsman fallacy you're trying to pull off here? The gap between perceived and actual ability is insane.

All you are doing is constantly trying to delegitimize people far smarter than you while at the same time admitting you know nothing about the subject.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

No, they were found to have high factual reporting due to a clean fact check record, meaning they do not lie.

They were found to have high factual reporting due to a clean fact check record, meaning the facts they used were true.

They were found to publish poorly sourced opinion pieces (that almost always favored conservatives) and label them as research, meaning they were caught pushing propaganda.

Stanford researchers say Hoover is in conflict with Stanford's academic mission.

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foreverzero212 posted...

Stanford researchers say Hoover is in conflict with Stanford's academic mission.

Some humanities professors take issue with it because they have different political positions. Big difference. Kind of like how you take issue with them but not the EPI, you're just biased.

But anyway, since you've declared yourself more reputable than all of the many economist who've come out against misleading data being picked up by clickbait media outlets please tell us what they get wrong. Time to actually add something to the topic.

They were found to publish poorly sourced opinion pieces (that almost always favored conservatives) and label them as research, meaning they were caught pushing propaganda.

His ties to this organization is what you said lends him credibility. You are admitting defeat on this point and want to move on?

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1. You're acting like I posted one person who pointed out misleading data. When in reality there are many who you all conveniently declared illegitimate.
2. I said his education and work history at multiple reputable schools gives him credibility. More so than you, obviously.

You can't actually point out what all these people are actually wrong about so at this point it's just repetitive trolling

So you are admitting defeat on that point, thank you. We can move on to the 2nd person you posted.

Now what makes Larry a left wing economist? Working under moderate presidents does not make one left wing. I can point to many who worked under these presidents that are not considered to be left wingers. His position that women do not have the aptitude for science is certainly not associated with left wing circles.

What makes Larry a lefty?

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Seriously are you going to make a single post refuting anything they said? It's a waste of time to do this with a narcissist with delusions of grandeur.

Maybe they should go union

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R1masher posted...

Maybe they should go union

union pacific? like ride the rails?

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

Seriously are you going to make a single post refuting anything they said? It's a waste of time to do this with a narcissist with delusions of grandeur.

Taking these claims one at a time forces you to reckon with what you've said.

You stated I discredited the right to left spectrum of economists. All because I did not trust Russ Roberts and that his ties to Stanford (more specifically Hoover) were not a bonus point for his credibility as you claimed it was. Also because I did not trust the takes of Larry Summers. This implies that Larry is a left wing economist. I want to know why Larry covers the left spectrum of economists. Your entire premise of balanced spectrum of economists takes falls apart if you cannot answer this.

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1. I'm not a conservative
2. Larry Summers is a Keynesian Democrat who's worked under both Presidents Clinton and Obama. We've already established that you're going to use the no true scotsman fallacy here, not because he isn't left wing but because you can't refute him or anyone I've posted ITT.

I keep saying it. Things are getting so bad in this country that the poor will start devouring the rich.

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If employees want a bigger slice of Amazons pie then accept less payments in salery and more in stocks. If people feel entitled to more for the companys success then they should accept the risk for when it does poor.

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1. Why don't you label yourself a conservative? The sources/ideology you value have no trouble proudly espousing conservatism. You don't like the aesthetics of the GOP or?
2. The guy that championed the repeal of Glass Steagall, is most vocal today about how much he hates wealth taxes, made fortunes from his Third Way deregulatory ideology.. this does not cover left wing economics. And again you've insisted in the past that Bill and Obama are moderates and not left wing so that shouldn't be used as a reason he is left wing.

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1. Because I'm not a conservative
2. NO TRUE LEFTY yeah I get it
3. Keynesianism is certainly considered left-wing
4. Being an economist doesn't disqualify you from being left wing, you don't have to be stupid to join the club. Most oppose wealth taxes for example, just as most countries have repealed theirs. It's not about ideology it's about outcomes.

last post I'm gonna make if you can't actually refute anything these guys are wrong about, time to put up or shut up

Balrog0 posted...

So you're saying that workers should get a larger share of Amazon stocks, rather than a higher minimum wage up front

Makes sense to me

Well what I was saying in that first post is that Amazon isn't sitting on huge piles of cash that can be used to just arbitrarily bump pay across the board, which I think I covered pretty well in a follow-on post where I highlighted how they reinvest their profits into expansion which does create more jobs as they build more warehouses and solar farms and expand into new industries. As other users have pointed out, though, there is some leeway in terms of slowing expansion. In that case you're prioritizing giving somebody higher pay in exchange for not giving somebody else a job and I think that needs to be recognized.

But to your point, I think anybody who makes the argument that the people should make more when the company does better, especially if they're going to directly contrast themselves to someone like Bezos whose wealth is mostly in stock value because the company is doing well, should be willing to accept stock incentives over a higher base pay. If Bezos was getting tens of millions of dollars a year in pay plus stock then people would have a much better argument against him, but his salary has been consistently low across his entire career, he has never been given stock as an incentive, and so his value comes almost entirely from the company he owns doing better, which to me seems incredibly fair.

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The Trent posted...

union pacific? like ride the rails?

no, union army, like for cause and comrades

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