Current Events > Why do democrats keep pushing for Biden or Clinton?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Why not have a candidate thats likeable and has reasonable positions in politics?

---

DemonBuffet posted...

Why not have a candidate thats likeable and has reasonable positions in politics?

Meanwhile, in Republican-land...

But seriously, Biden is very likeable and should not be lumped in with the Clintons.

---

meralonne posted...

Meanwhile, in Republican-land...

its a dry desert.

meralonne posted...

Meanwhile, in Republican-land...

But seriously, Biden is very likeable and should not be lumped in with the Clintons.

No hes not. Hes extremely difficult to like. Just saying but Donald Trump doesnt change that.

Hillary was pushed.

The voters chose Biden over Bernie. Bernie has momentum going into Super Tuesday and the only momentum Biden had was that he won South Carolina after absolutely failing in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada. Then he dominated on Super Tuesday and on March 10 before all the shutdowns happened.

The voters wanted Biden.

---

The party's plan seems to be chasing the republicans to the right hoping to pick up voters that get left behind.

---

Damn_Underscore posted...

Hillary was pushed.

The voters chose Biden over Bernie. Bernie has momentum going into Super Tuesday and the only momentum Biden had was that he won South Carolina after absolutely failing in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada. Then he dominated on Super Tuesday and on March 10 before all the shutdowns happened.

The voters wanted Biden.

You mean Biden entered Super Tuesday with the momentum of the media acting like he already won it all after South Carolina and the party forced everyone to drop out and endorse Biden. You can see the mail in ballots from every state go from Bernie to Biden based on when they orchestrated that media frenzy.

---

To answer the question. Dem party donors only want to win in a very specific way that doesn't include likable people or the left. Why? Many of them are also GOP donors.

---

Saying Bernie would have won if the rest of the vote was split is like saying Trump would have won the popular vote if you don't count California.

Or if you want to talk about a media conspiracy, I think there are a lot of Trump supporters who would love to have that discussion with you.

---

ufoivy posted...

Hillary and Biden are well liked candidates lol, among people that actually have jobs

Hillary and Biden absolutely clean up with 65+ vote after getting demolished by people under 55. So actually the only people that like Hillary and especially Biden are people that don't have jobs and haven't worked in quite some time.

---

I like Biden, I hated Hillary and I hate Trump even more so as an independent I'm voting Biden to try to save and restore sanity in America and I also have TC tagged as a Trump supporter.

---

Damn_Underscore posted...

Hillary was pushed.

The voters chose Biden over Bernie. Bernie has momentum going into Super Tuesday and the only momentum Biden had was that he won South Carolina after absolutely failing in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada. Then he dominated on Super Tuesday and on March 10 before all the shutdowns happened.

The voters wanted Biden.

The reason he "dominated" Super Tuesday was because Klobuchar and Buttigieg dropped out literally the day before and endorsed Biden. It was a desperation move by the DNC because all polls after Nevada showed Bernie winning in a landslide.

Biden only has "default support". People only "like" him because of his VP association with Obama. Dude is a run of the mill corporate democrat just like Hillary. He stands for nothing ideologically and his policy positions are whatever his corporate donors say they are. It's funny seeing people propping up Biden as some kind of moral savior all of a sudden lol. Dude is the definition of dirty corporate politics as usual and can barely speak in coherent sentences anymore.

And no, I'm not a Trump supporter. Always have to add this disclaimer because dumb liberais think being anti-democrat automaticallly makes you a MAGA hick. I'm way to the left of Biden and even Bernie for that matter.

---

Clinton because of money and name value

Biden because he is legitimately by far the most popular democrat in the nation and it isn't even close.

Sanders supporters are delusional. Biden crippled him.
---

Damn_Underscore posted...

Saying Bernie would have won if the rest of the vote was split is like saying Trump would have won the popular vote if you don't count California.

Or if you want to talk about a media conspiracy, I think there are a lot of Trump supporters who would love to have that discussion with you.

Bernie was winning by larger margins. Larger than Biden won SC. That's why they not only forced the other to drop, but to drop and endorse Biden. Because if they didn't, many polls showed Bernie was the 2nd choice of the other candidates voters.

---

The DNC hate progressives.

---

Hillary is naturally unlikeable. She acted like she was robbed in 2008 and that it was "her turn" in 2016.

Biden was never that kind of asshole. Biden has got other problems but he doesn't have this naturally antagonistic personality the way Hillary did. I disagree with Biden's policies but I don't have any problems with him as a person.

---

Tyranthraxus posted...

I disagree with Biden's policies

Which ones?

---

foreverzero212 posted...

Bernie was winning by larger margins. Larger than Biden won SC. That's why they not only forced the other to drop, but to drop and endorse Biden. Because if they didn't, many polls showed Bernie was the 2nd choice of the other candidates voters.

Who is they?

Also why look at margins? The democratic primaries don't have winner take all primaries/caucuses, so margins are baked into the delegate count.

---

COVxy posted...

Which ones?

I disagree with his public option expansion of the ACA. I don't dislike it I just disagree with it and would prefer m4a or single payer.

I also don't believe his general economic policies will do much to end income inequality.

---

Anteaterking posted...

Who is they?

Also why look at margins? The democratic primaries don't have winner take all primaries/caucuses, so margins are baked into the delegate count.

Reports say "they" was Obama and likely the same crowd that was orchestrating the "stop sanders" meetings the New York Times reported on.

Why look at the margins? Because people like to make up that Bernie was only winning with 20% of the vote in a split field. The man blew out Nevada and was picking up steam.

---

Tyranthraxus posted...

I disagree with his public option expansion of the ACA. I don't dislike it I just disagree with it and would prefer m4a or single payer.

I also don't believe his general economic policies will do much to end income inequality.

I think disagree gives the wrong impression when you just would prefer something different. Like, you agree that having public option go through would be better than where we are now, correct?

---

The failure of 2016 and the obvious disaster of the Trump administration left many Democratic voters gunshy in this election, and hyper-focused on electability, or at least the perception thereof. Poll after poll showed that it was priority #1 for a good-sized subset of primary voters. This worked to the detriment of women candidates (recall that much of the narrative after 2016 was that America "wasn't ready" to elect a woman) and Bernie Sanders (who often polled ahead of Trump in head to heads, but rarely as well as Biden).

So even as that same electorate consistently voiced support in polls for Medicare for All and aggressive action on climate change, they voted for the guy they thought would be the safe pick in the rust belt.
---

COVxy posted...

I think disagree gives the wrong impression when you just would prefer something different. Like, you agree that having public option go through would be better than where we are now, correct?

Obviously what we have now + public option is better than what we have now + no public option. The thing is what we have now isn't particularly good in the first place. The public option really only addresses issues like where Hobby Lobby essentially undermined the entire ACA over "religious freedom" unless the public option was super ridiculously cheap I do not predict a significant decrease in the number of uninsured.

---

Democrats already abandoning the public option before Biden is offically nominated. Tbf, Biden wasn't strongly on record for a public option like the other candidates. Just "expanding on the aca"

Single payer vs "expanding the aca" is a large enough difference to say you disagree. Especially when Biden said he'd veto med4all. This is called a disagreement.

---

foreverzero212 posted...

Why look at the margins? Because people like to make up that Bernie was only winning with 20% of the vote in a split field. The man blew out Nevada and was picking up steam.

Biden beat Sanders 49% to 20% in South Carolina. Sanders beat Biden 40% to 19% in Nevada. South Carolina has 50% more delegates than Nevada.

Those states were back to back. Why does the Nevada win mean more?

---

Anteaterking posted...

Biden beat Sanders 49% to 20% in South Carolina. Sanders beat Biden 40% to 19% in Nevada. South Carolina has 50% more delegates than Nevada.

Those states were back to back. Why does the Nevada win mean more?

I didn't say it meant more, but it should. Sanders won 3 in a row and closed the gap in South Carolina. Then the endorsements came in. Winning Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, is more relevant than South Carolina. The former are swing states. The latter is beginning to be operation chaos of a deep red state always picking the blue nominee.

---

foreverzero212 posted...

I didn't say it meant more, but it should. Sanders won 3 in a row and closed the gap in South Carolina. Then the endorsements came in. Winning Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, is more relevant than South Carolina. The former are swing states. The latter is beginning to be operation chaos of a deep red state always picking the blue nominee.

Sanders ended up losing despite polling saying otherwise because Biden absolutely crushed a specific Demographic:

The people who didn't make up their mind on who to vote for until they were literally standing in line to vote.

At the end of the day people put too much stock in polls and are too quick to dismiss "undecided" as either not real or not significant enough to matter.

---

Tyranthraxus posted...

Sanders ended up losing despite polling saying otherwise because Biden absolutely crushed a specific Demographic:

The people who didn't make up their mind on who to vote for until they were literally standing in line to vote.

At the end of the day people put too much stock in polls and are too quick to dismiss "undecided" as either not real or not significant enough to matter.

The polls were correct in predicting Sanders wins until the endorsement frenzy came in. Then the polls shifted back to Biden and he won.

---

because at the end of the day while the republicans are increasingly drifting further right, the democratic party is cemented in the center because the thing that scares liberals more than anything is actually doing something and being required to face scrutiny. hillary and biden have high name recognition while being guaranteed not to cause too much of a ruckus

---

ufoivy posted...

Bernie was never actually winning, the primaries just started off in parts of the country that had a more favorable opinion of him. Had the race started off in any of those states Biden picked up on Super Tuesday in the South or hell, Massachusetts, Biden wouldve been in the lead from the start.

I mean, Biden didn't even have a campaign, and he "took off" by winning the red state primary in which he had never led by less than 5(even when his polling was at its lowest ebb).
The thing is, you're showing me this orange and telling me it's an apple: in the aftermath of Nevada, Sanders had a huge lead in California(and Biden was in danger of not even getting delegates!),seemed poised to win Texas and Maine, and was running a close second in Minnesota, Massachusetts, and North Carolina.

And, also: Iowa was actually not a great state for Bernie: it skews older and is very white: Bernie's best demographics were young voters and Hispanics. New Hampshire is also very white and skews older(though they are, of course, geographically familiar with Bernie) and both had recently passed voting restrictions which primarily impacted college students(a prime Bernie/Warren demo). To the extent that Bernie succeeded in those states, it was because his campaign martialed support from areas the others neglected(LOL Buttigieg's campaign literally threw a tantrum over how hard Bernie won Iowa satellite caucuses comprised primarily of immigrant workers). If the party hadn't intervened, he would have straight-up won on Super Tuesday, even after Biden won South Carolina, and none of the others would have had anywhere near enough delegates to stop him.

That's why they needed the full-court press to shore up Biden. You have the media, you have Klob and Butt and Beto all up on stage with Biden, all of them telling primary voters that Joe Biden is the best candidate to beat Trump, that thing primary voters rated as the most important thing. All against a year of background noise painting Bernie as a crazy, unreasonable, unelectable candidate backed by an unhinged personality cult. If you're trying to say that didn't matter, you're just choosing to be blind.

foreverzero212 posted...

I didn't say it meant more, but it should. Sanders won 3 in a row and closed the gap in South Carolina. Then the endorsements came in. Winning Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, is more relevant than South Carolina. The former are swing states. The latter is beginning to be operation chaos of a deep red state always picking the blue nominee.

It's the Democratic party of all the states, not just the swing states. Iowa and New Hampshire aren't representative of the Democratic party (and South Carolina isn't entirely either!).

You're completely falling for the ordering of states. And you talk about endorsements as if they shouldn't matter, but they should (to some extent).

---

IndustrialTrudg posted...

No hes not. Hes extremely difficult to like. Just saying but Donald Trump doesnt change that.

Thats actually objectively false. Prominent Republican senators have recognized Biden as a stand-up guy. Just because youve been programmed to own the libs by your overlord does not change facts.

---