Current Events > One reason I thought of why Ellie couldn't (LoU 2 Spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

drown Abby was because it was similar to the way a hunter amost killed Joel in the first game, whom Ellie shot to save him.

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Lol @ not blaming the s*** writing

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Samman123 posted...

Lol @ not blaming the s*** writing

why is ellie not killing abby shit writing?

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pauIie posted...

why is ellie not killing abby shit writing?

Because that was the whole point of the game

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Samman123 posted...

Lol @ not blaming the s*** writing

https://www.magicalquote.com/moviequotes/revenge-is-never-a-straight-line/

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Samman123 posted...

Because that was the whole point of the game

characters aren't allowed to change their minds?

are messages not allowed to be unveiled later in story?

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Ellie didn't kill Abby because of bad writing

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A standard revenge tale would have been bad writing. That basically wasn't in the cards the moment Abby was playable.

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"Wahh I didn't get to kill Abby, the game has shitty writing."

Honestly the only real issues I can see with the story is pacing and the fact that Joel was a bit out of character leading to...well, that scene.
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BakonBitz posted...

"Wahh I didn't get to kill Abby, the game has shitty writing."

Honestly the only real issues I can see with the story is pacing and the fact that Joel was a bit out of character leading to...well, that scene.

I don't agree - he'd settled down for a while. They explain that travelers regularly came to trade. He wasn't on the road anymore.

Samman123 posted...

Because that was the whole point of the game

I implore you to watch about 60 seconds from this link:

https://youtu.be/Jiq0nR8ndD0?t=518

"If you got to this scene and thought that the best narrative choice was for Ellie to kill Abby, then I truly cannot fathom how you consume stories."

pauIie posted...

characters aren't allowed to change their minds?

are messages not allowed to be unveiled later in story?

I think I might expand on this view on a topic to it's self. However Ellie kill a shit load of people who did not kill Joel. but when she gets to the person who kill Joel she is like.. Oh revenge isn't the answer. Wtih no got damn fingers.

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Druck the Cuck!

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cjsdowg posted...

I think I might expand on this view on a topic to it's self. However Ellie kill a shit load of people who did not kill Joel. but when she gets to the person who kill Joel she is like.. Oh revenge isn't the answer. Wtih no got damn fingers.

A) Generally she kills people who are trying to kill her

B) Abby is the last encounter in the game. That's where the lesson is learned. If, after that she mowed through a dozen more dudes, then I'd agree with you.

Did people somehow miss how Ellie was pretty fucked up in the head after she killed Nora, Owen and Mel?

That she already accepted earlier that she wasn't going to kill Abby?

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Stalolin posted...

A) Generally she kills people who are trying to kill her

B) Abby is the last encounter in the game. That's where the lesson is learned. If, after that she mowed through a dozen more dudes, then I'd agree with you.

This is a big issue that you find in a ton of movies/ game. The hero kills everyone else but saves the big bad. If you want to go the rout that revenge is not the answer then she found that lesson out in before the game ended. She was over it, she was leaving her best life on a farm with a family. She was happy, then she goes right back in and doesn't kill someone who needed killing.

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"You know Abby, we really are the last of us 2."

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cjsdowg posted...

This is a big issue that you find in a ton of movies/ game. The hero kills everyone else but saves the big bad. If you want to go the rout that revenge is not the answer then she found that lesson out in before the game ended. She was over it, she was leaving her best life on a farm with a family. She was happy, then she goes right back in and doesn't kill someone who needed killing.

She wasn't living her best life though. Close but not quite, as per barn scene and Tommy's return stirring things up.

Because at that point, it's more like she's taking revenge because Tommy wants her to.
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I dont agree with the narrative choices that led there, but by the time the story got to the end point they had chosen, Ellie not killing Abby was absolutely the right ending

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St0rmFury posted...

Because at that point, it's more like she's taking revenge because Tommy wants her to.

you ignored the whole ptsd break down she has before tommy shows up but okay

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Stalolin posted...

She wasn't living her best life though. Close but not quite, as per barn scene and Tommy's return stirring things up.

Well just say living a good life. Going back getting fucking fingers eaten and then don't killing her is a shot to the player. If the game ended at the barn a lot of people would have been less upset. And you would have the message that you don't have to have revenge. But they didn't do that, that pick things right back on this revenge beat and don't follow thru. Abby is a horrible person as bad as most video game characters and she wins in the end .

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cjsdowg posted...

Abby is a horrible person as bad as most video game characters and she wins in the end .

Does she though

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cjsdowg posted...

Well just say living a good life. Going back getting fucking fingers eaten and then don't killing her is a shot to the player. If the game ended at the barn a lot of people would have been less upset. And you would have the message that you don't have to have revenge. But they didn't do that, that pick things right back on this revenge beat and don't follow thru. Abby is a horrible person as bad as most video game characters and she wins in the end .

Ignoring the second part where you think Abby "Wins" after being enslaved, severe atrophy, and being literally crucified, I had this same conversation with my wife after the game. And I initially thought it should have ended there too but she changed my mind. I think it's a few things. You can't just show that this life has had zero consequences on her. You can show she learns to live with them, but then there is ambiguity about whether she will end up leaving to take revenge, and then people say you're just copying the ambiguous ending of TLOU and being lazy. I think Ellie needed to fully "realize" her revenge before she could fully learn to move on, especially because of how things ended in Seattle. People talk about how the writers seem to huff their own farts 'but actually their story is very generic', then in the same breath say they should have taken the much more obvious and generic route and end things on the farm which would ultimately make less narrative sense.

Samman123 posted...

Because that was the whole point of the game

@Samman123 Somehow, the entire narratives thematic structure flew right over your head. Replay the game, and pay more attention to what the story is actually saying, and showing you.

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"We're shitty people, Joel." - Tess

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Verdekal posted...

"We're shitty people, Joel." - Tess

It honestly baffles me that some people seem to expect that the sequel was going to be like Uncharted.

The first game Ellie loses her innocence and becomes a killer to survive. Her new father figure destroys a potential cure to save her life, slaughters several unarmed people (who are basically considered the best and brightest) and lies to her about it.

That's the happiest story of the first game. The characters they meet on the way usually have a worse fate.


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I felt it (going after Abby) was much more for closure than actual revenge though it certainly was a contributing motivation. Hell most of the times during the whole crusade she tries to act like Joel only to get shown she isn't him (seeing her reaction following Nora, which is my favorite scene in the game, botching the 2man interrogation with Owen and Mel and her reaction to that, etc). The ending quite nicely shows how much they differ.

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cjsdowg posted...

Abby is a horrible person as bad as most video game characters and she wins in the end .

So just like Joel in the first game.

Samman123 posted...

Because that was the whole point of the game

The whole point of the first game was getting the Fireflies to make a cure from Ellie. Guess what didn't happen by the end of the game.

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Total_Lost2 posted...

I felt it (going after Abby) was much more for closure than actual revenge though it certainly was a contributing motivation. Hell most of the times during the whole crusade she tries to act like Joel only to get shown she isn't him (seeing her reaction following Nora, which is my favorite scene in the game, botching the 2man interrogation with Owen and Mel and her reaction to that, etc). The ending quite nicely shows how much they differ.

I think at first she was driven by literal revenge, but by the end of Seattle it was more for closure because the things she has done messed her up. It was definitely interesting to see how different she acted trying to do Joel's intimidation tactics.
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Stalolin posted...

Ignoring the second part where you think Abby "Wins" after being enslaved, severe atrophy, and being literally crucified, I had this same conversation with my wife after the game. And I initially thought it should have ended there too but she changed my mind. I think it's a few things. You can't just show that this life has had zero consequences on her. You can show she learns to live with them, but then there is ambiguity about whether she will end up leaving to take revenge, and then people say you're just copying the ambiguous ending of TLOU and being lazy. I think Ellie needed to fully "realize" her revenge before she could fully learn to move on, especially because of how things ended in Seattle. People talk about how the writers seem to huff their own farts 'but actually their story is very generic', then in the same breath say they should have taken the much more obvious and generic route and end things on the farm which would ultimately make less narrative sense.

Ending things are the farm is not a typical ending, the villain didn't get what was coming to her. The hero chooses to live their live and not seek payback. Normally that does not happen in games. And it makes sense, sometimes people just make the choice to not keep going for payback. Ellie had a new life and now that she was in a family new responsibilities. She literally gave that up for her payback and then didn't go thru with it. How does that make more narrative sense?

Darmik posted... Does she though

Yes.


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cjsdowg posted...

Ending things are the farm is not a typical ending, the villain didn't get what was coming to her. The hero chooses to live their live and not seek payback. Normally that does not happen in games. And it makes sense, sometimes people just make the choice to not keep going for payback. Ellie had a new life and now that she was in a family new responsibilities. She literally gave that up for her payback and then didn't go thru with it. How does that make more narrative sense?

Yes.

because she needed to learn to forgive. Getting beaten and told to stay away from Abby and Lev doesnt achieve that.

I think the game's less about revenge and more with trying to cope with loss and finding closure.

but in the most basic sense, yea, it's about revenge, but it goes deeper than that.

for Abby, we're given context clues and straight up dialogue about how in her quest for revenge, she was so driven to kill Joel, she turned herself into a killing machine, but as a result, it pushed people away, like ending her relationship with Owen.

and even after killing Joel, it didn't bring her the satisfaction that she was looking for, and she was still having PTSD nightmares about her dad's murder.

she was only finally able to begin finding some kinda peace after she saved Yara and Lev.

on Ellie's end, I don't think she forgave Abby, but she likely knew she wasn't going to get any peace by killing a half-dead woman who didn't want to even fight her. and by killing Abby, it would either mean Lev dying or likely coming back at her to continue the cycle.

also, when it flashed to her final meeting with Joel, it was showing that she felt this regret and guilt for not trying to forgive him earlier and killing Abby would have her stuck on his death rather than the bond she and Joel had.

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cjsdowg posted...

Ending things are the farm is not a typical ending, the villain didn't get what was coming to her. The hero chooses to live their live and not seek payback.

I think if you're using hero and villains in this story you're already missing the point.

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The Abby sections are the best parts of the game.

fite me

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Darmik posted...

I think if you're using hero and villains in this story you're already missing the point.

Funny that you missed the point of that post.

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