Current Events > It is INSANE that we cannot vote from a smartphone in the year 2020

(+) Yeah! (+)

You can purchase a car from your phone.

You can get a mortgage from your phone.

You can access your bank account containing your life savings from your phone.

DO NOT give me a bullshit excuse saying that it could be hacked..... What is stopping someone from hacking your banking app and draining all of your savings? GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE WITH THAT BULLSHIT.

I DEMAND THE ABILITY TO VOTE FROM MY SMART PHONE!

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Saquon-26- posted...

You can get a mortgage from your phone.

Lmao what?

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to be fair, i don't get why this is an issue.
if you have a social insurance number and a form of citizenship identification, why can't you vote electronically.
seems annoying having to drive to a poll and waiting in lines with a ton of people.

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thebatz posted...

to be fair, i don't get why this is an issue.
if you have a social insurance number and a form of citizenship identification, why can't you vote electronically.
seems annoying having to drive to a poll and waiting in lines with a ton of people.

There is no excuse.

The only reason they dont want you to be able to vote form your phone is because it would be extremely difficult for them to enforce voter suppression of minorities and other groups that they dont want to vote.

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Man in the Middle attack is one of the most common form of hacking.

The fact that much of our software infrastructure is INCREDIBLY buggy and prone to being hacked means it's a fundamentally DUMB idea

With Electronic Credentials and how often ID's and personal info is stolen, hacking into your account to vote would be incredibly easy given how much identity theft is done IRL / Online to this day.

If you care about the sanctity & security of an election, you want it to be ONLY in person with secure guards around it.

Don't sacrifice security for convenience.

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Honestly, the smorgasbord of how we vote is pretty good at deterring voter fraud

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AssultTank posted...

Electronic voting is as accurate and secure as going up to a random person on the street and telling them how you want to vote, and then trusting that person to accurately report your vote...

so you don't pay any of your bills online or anything?

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Government sites are already shitty as it is. Being able to vote from your phone sounds appealing and would be great for the disabled or those that lack transportation. I think the chances of tampering and data theft are pretty high though.

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KStateKing17 posted...

I think the chances of tampering and data theft are pretty high though.

Youve never accessed your bank account from your phone?

Has anyone ever drained your account via hacking?

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AssultTank posted...

Basically. I literally work for a bank and it is super common to have people whose accounts have been compromised. Like 3-4 a day across our clients.

Accounts get compromised in many ways that dont involve online banking... For example if someone tampers with the debit card scanner on a gas pump they can steal your info, but not from using a mobile app unless they know your login info.

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You wouldn't download a ballot
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thronedfire2 posted...

so you don't pay any of your bills online or anything?

If I find fraudulent charges on my account I can have them reversed. I can't reverse an election (we've been trying but no luck so far)

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Saquon-26- posted...

Youve never accessed your bank account from your phone?

Has anyone ever drained your account via hacking?

The better question is whether or not it's possible that either could happen. There is more interest in politics than a lower to middle class individual's bank account. How secure are state or county government sites compared to most banks? Also after seeing "issues" with machines at polling locations, how often would we see an issue with site crashes, intentional or coincidental?

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KStateKing17 posted...

There is more interest in politics than a lower to middle class individual's bank account.

So whats stopping hackers from draining Jeff Bezos bank account?

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Saquon-26- posted...

That means you were exposing your banking or credit card info in sketchy places like porn sites and god knows what else.

Or... You know.... Equifax gets hacked and everyone in Russia has my social security number, name, DOB, and banking history.

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Saquon-26- posted...

So whats stopping hackers from draining Jeff Bezos bank account?

ending up like jeffrey epstein

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Saquon-26- posted...

So whats stopping hackers from draining Jeff Bezos bank account?

Tyranthraxus posted...

If I find fraudulent charges on my account I can have them reversed.

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Saquon-26- posted...

So whats stopping hackers from draining Jeff Bezos bank account?

Idk. Ask a hacker

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You cant reverse a vote... So if you punch your virtual ballot then there is no way for a hacker to alter your decision.

The way youd know if you were hacked would be if the system said you already voted.

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If you want your side to ALWAYS get represented, then we need to tell the government that "First Past the Post & Winner Take All" elections are fundamentally STUPID and needs to be abolished.

Allocating Decimal level accuracy of Voting Power relative to all candidates who runs for each seat relative to the constituency size for each seat is the MOST accurate method of representation.

Once the voting is over and all voting power is allocated, all candidates will go up to Congress as representatives for their constituents with the appropriate decimals level allocated voting power.

So assume there are 9 candidates running for seat ___.

Each of the 9 candidates gets some fraction of 100% of the seat's representative area's voting power.

Each candidate would get <= 1.0 voting power based on proportion of allocated voting power from the local constitutents.

This would make it a truly accurate Democatic Constitutional Representative Republic.

Doesn't matter what party you represent, you would all go up to Senate / House at a Federal / State / Local level and every side of the matter would be represented.

The current system is incredibly flawed because of a "First Past the Post & Winner Take All" system.

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Saquon-26- posted...

You cant reverse a vote... So if you punch your virtual ballot then there is no way for a hacker to alter your decision.

The way youd know if you were hacked would be if the system said you already voted.

By then it's too late.

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I think some countries do this. and they work fine. so we should too. republicans don't want it though. if every black american can vote from their phone, the republicans would be powerless to suppress their votes.

Tyranthraxus posted...

By then it's too late.

Then you could file a dispute.... They will investigate and recount your vote if needed.

Its not that difficult... A hacker trying to file mass disputes would be nearly impossible and if you are really that talented at hacking it would be more worth your time trying to drain Bill Gates bank account instead.

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Saquon-26- posted...

Then you could file a dispute.... They will investigate and recount your vote if needed.

Its not that difficult... A hacker trying to file mass disputes would be nearly impossible and if you are really that talented at hacking it would be more worth your time trying to drain Bill Gates bank account instead.

That's not how elections work. There's no such thing as disputing your own vote.

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Zikten posted...

I think some countries do this. and they work fine. so we should too. republicans don't want it though. if every black american can vote from their phone, the republicans would be powerless to suppress their votes.

Or all your votes might get hacked and vote the opposite of what you want.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

That's not how elections work. There's no such thing as disputing your own vote.

That's why in person voting should always give you a physical paper receipt.

Then the vote tally should be posted in a large public spread sheet listing off a unique yet anonymous Voter ID# and what they voted for on all voting items.

Then you can easily individually fact check everything.

And have a window for filing complaints and make adjustments with daily updates for 1 work week after the intial voting week (5 days based on work week).

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As long as we are trapped into this corrupt two party system, im not sure voter fraud even matters. Its not like you are really getting to decide anything meaningful anyway

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solosnake posted...

As long as we are trapped into this corrupt two party system, im not sure voter fraud even matters. Its not like you are really getting to decide anything meaningful anyway

That's why "Winner Take All & First Past the Post" democratic systems are fundamentally flawed.

We've had many years to do the research past the initial point and with countless examples.

We know what's a more Fair & Accurate Democratically elected Representative system.

It's forcing the change that will be hard because there are "Powers that Be" that have a vested interest in preserving the current system.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Or all your votes might get hacked and vote the opposite of what you want.

then why does that never happen in other countries?

Zikten posted...

I think some countries do this. and they work fine. so we should too. republicans don't want it though. if every black american can vote from their phone, the republicans would be powerless to suppress their votes.

Votes can always be suppressed. I was watching Narcos: Mexico a few months ago and there was an episode where their country started using a computer based system in the 80s that let voters see the total votes for all the candidates in real time. It was supposed to prevent corruption but one party just got the guy operating the computer to put false information on the computer so that voters for the other party would get discouraged and give up on going to the polls. Even when it seems like it should be impossible for there to be corruption, people will find a way

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Zikten posted...

then why does that never happen in other countries?

How are you so sure it hasn't?

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I would never vote from a smartphone. Others have already pointed out many of the reasons why.

If going to the polls is that much of an ordeal just request an absentee ballot (even better if your state allows you to sign up for permanent absentee status). Your shit comes weeks in advance to your door. In my state the return envelope is even postpaid.

KamenRiderBlade posted...

How are you so sure it hasn't?

I have never heard it reported. I have heard of other countries doing online or phone voting but never heard of any votes being hacked. it would be on the news especially since america would love to provide proof that it didn't work so we don't even try it here.

Feline_Heart posted...

Votes can always be suppressed. I was watching Narcos: Mexico a few months ago and there was an episode where their country started using a computer based system in the 80s that let voters see the total votes for all the candidates in real time. It was supposed to prevent corruption but one party just got the guy operating the computer to put false information on the computer so that voters for the other party would get discouraged and give up on going to the polls. Even when it seems like it should be impossible for there to be corruption, people will find a way

Discouragement is only one method.

The other method is "Double Books" where you show one side the truth, and the other side the results you want.

As somebody who is a Software Programmer and very technical person; There is ZERO reason why I would ever trust a computer based systems. The number of flaws behind it, along with countless ways of cheating isn't worth it.

The old fashioned way, voting in person, voting with receipts, transparency.

Expanding Voting time from 1 day to 1 work week (5 days), x days of processing, (1 work week) for corrections to any errors from the public spreadsheet.

Making sure ALL DMV's are not tampered with and expand their operating hours to be as close to 18/7 as possible.

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Zikten posted...

I have never heard it reported. I have heard of other countries doing online or phone voting but never heard of any votes being hacked. it would be on the news especially since america would love to provide proof that it didn't work so we don't even try it here.

You wonder why Putin has always remained in power, why other Authoritarian regimes stay in power despite their BS about being a Democracy.

It's INCREDIBLY easy to rig an election, ESPECIALLY via computers.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Discouragement is only one method.

The other method is "Double Books" where you show one side the truth, and the other side the results you want.

As somebody who is a Software Programmer and very technical person; There is ZERO reason why I would ever trust a computer based systems. The number of flaws behind it, along with countless ways of cheating isn't worth it.

The old fashioned way, voting in person, voting with receipts, transparency.

Expanding Voting time from 1 day to 1 work week (5 days), x days of processing, (1 work week) for corrections to any errors from the public spreadsheet.

Making sure ALL DMV's are not tampered with and expand their operating hours to be as close to 18/7 as possible.

Yeah, thats what they did. They knew the real results but the screen that everyone could see made it look like they were winning by a landslide when they werent

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Feline_Heart posted...

Yeah, thats what they did. They knew the real results but the screen that everyone could see made it look like they were winning by a landslide when they werent

That's why it needs to be a Felony for anybody to speculate, to poll, or to even show preliminary results.

All that is a form of "influence".

Just get out of your ass and go vote.

Once the results are in, they're in.

Then you can double check the work, and make adjustments.

Then report the new results.

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Nobody can make a good argument against voting via mobile smart phone.

It just makes too much sense.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Man in the Middle attack is one of the most common form of hacking.

The fact that much of our software infrastructure is INCREDIBLY buggy and prone to being hacked means it's a fundamentally DUMB idea

With Electronic Credentials and how often ID's and personal info is stolen, hacking into your account to vote would be incredibly easy given how much identity theft is done IRL / Online to this day.

If you care about the sanctity & security of an election, you want it to be ONLY in person with secure guards around it.

Don't sacrifice security for convenience.

this, precisely

even if the technological infrastructure was perfected and communications secure, integrity of votes would still be at the mercy of the security of the phones themselves

at minimum two or three factor authentication would be necessary - the phone being but one of them

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

That's why it needs to be a Felony for anybody to speculate, to poll, or to even show preliminary results.

Lol

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Anteaterking posted...

Lol

More people would vote if you knew ZERO information on how things were going on in the election.

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