Current Events > "No choke holds" is a pretty terrible policing policy

(+) Yeah! (+)

If you're in a fight taking someone to the ground and choking them out is probably the safest way to subdue them for both parties involved. The other alternative is to hit them which can lead to all kinds of issues including brain damage and possibly death.

That said they need to be trained how to execute safe blood chokes and how to handle situations where one is necessary.

Before anyone starts spouting nonsense, I am definitly not standing up the the piece of shit that killed george floyd. Putting your knee on the back/back of the neck of a subdued man for nearly 10 minutes is definitely not what I'm talking about.

---

They'll still use choke holds lol, they're cops, they don't give a shit about breaking the law themselves.

---

I just think that if the person is handcuffed then they probably dont need to be suffocated.

---

iPhone_7 posted...

I just think that if the person is handcuffed then they probably dont need to be suffocated.

Thats what, TC is saying. There are instances where chokes are the safest method to subdue a perp, and an outright ban on the technique puts people in greater danger of injury or death.

---

Chokeholds were banned in NYC when Eric Garner was killed
---

iPhone_7 posted...

I just think that if the person is handcuffed then they probably dont need to be suffocated.

100%

If you've gotten someone into handcuffs they're effectively subdued. But if you're on the ground fighting with them the safest way to subdue that person and get them into cuffs would be to lock a rear choke and put them to sleep for a few seconds.

---

Is the Crippler Crossface a choke hold?

---

killing people who are already subdued is a worse police policy imo

Antifar posted...

Chokeholds were banned in NYC when Eric Garner was killed

Before or after?

RetsuZaiZen posted...

Is the Crippler Crossface a choke hold?

On that note, are flying headbutts banned as well?

The issue is, police are clearly not getting the correct training to use these holds. You can't exactly allow people to use broadly use chokeholds when you know the majority of them aren't even correctly trained in their use--If you can't force police to be properly trained, then at the very least you can make it illegal to use more advanced and potentially deadly techniques to prevent needless death.

If I was the Emperor of the USA, I would make a broad federal program to certify and recertify all police in the use of grappling techniques. It would require them to take a four hour grappling training four times a year in order to consistently reinforce the safe applications of grappling moves, plus I would subsidize officers in training at local Judo and BJJ clubs if they wish to engage in extracurricular training. This certification would be required for all officers, and failure to renew it over a 6 months period would make the officer broadly liable for injuries or death during an arrest that arise from grappling with the suspect. Failure to renew it over a 1 year period would result in termination outside of certain exclusions, such as medical leave.

---

RetsuZaiZen posted...

Is the Crippler Crossface a choke hold?

No, it's a neck crank.

---

chokeholds are not that easy to properly pull off in a way that results in the other person being relatively unharmed.

---

Antifar posted...

Chokeholds were banned in NYC when Eric Garner was killed

With eric garner 1. I dont think it should have escalated to violence, atleast not as fast as it did. He wasn't being cooperative, but not violently so.

2. It's been awhile since I've seen it but of I remember correctly the cop had his arm barred across his throat. That's not what you want to do. You want have your elbow under their chin and squeezing the arteries on each side of the neck. If done correctly they'll be unconscious in the matter of seconds. You also probably shouldn't be initiating a choke from a standing position, especially on someone larger than you.

---

SquantoZ posted...

chokeholds are not that easy to properly pull off in a way that results in the other person being relatively unharmed.

yeah they Are, Ive been training BJJ for years and with proper practice theyre practically harmless

that being said, officers are absolutely not trained to do this

SquantoZ posted...

chokeholds are not that easy to properly pull off in a way that results in the other person being relatively unharmed.

They legitimately are very easy to properly pull off safely. There are tens of thousands of fresh white belts in BJJ classes every day that are not killing or maiming their opponents with chokeholds.

There are submission holds that ARE legitimately difficult to use without injuring your partner, though, and require some practice. Neck cranks and leg locks are the big ones. Kimuras to a lesser extent.

---

It's weird to see it deemed too dangerous to use when jiu jitsu guys choke each other all the time for fun. Hell even kids classes do it.

The fucked up thing was that Floyd was tapping and crying for his life. Holding a choke past that point is the problem.

---

SquantoZ posted...

chokeholds are not that easy to properly pull off in a way that results in the other person being relatively unharmed.

They're pretty easy if you know what you're doing unless the person you're grappling with knows how to defend against them

---

Solid Snake07 posted...

They're pretty easy if you know what you're doing unless the person you're grappling with knows how to defend against them

the average person would just tire themselves out lol

Solid Snake07 posted...

They're pretty easy if you know what you're doing unless the person you're grappling with knows how to defend against them

No, they're pretty much always safe to use if you know what you're doing. The RNC is the most common submission in all of grappling regardless of skill level.

---

I guess since choke holds aren't allowed, they will just have to thump the violent criminal in the head with a baton several times?

---

Most of the time they don't need to subdue a perp at all.

Allowing them to chokehold just means police doing it to innocent people and saying it is standard procedure.

Knee to the throat is not a legitimate chokehold. Cops usually do a knee to the back to hold someone down and keep their hands free. Chauvin used his to crush the dudes neck. Eric Garner was an example of an actual choke gone wrong.

---

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

I guess since choke holds aren't allowed, they will just have to thump the violent criminal in the head with a baton several times?

grappling is a legit way to control someone belligerent. You dont need five people if you have someone properly trained

https://youtu.be/Tm7I23Dc0OM

this is the most basic thing they teach you

soulunison2 posted...

the average person would just tire themselves out lol

Yeah, and when I say people who know how to protect against it we're talking about maybe 1% of the population.

---

Pogo_Marimo posted...

No, they're pretty much always safe to use if you know what you're doing. The RNC is the most common submission in all of grappling regardless of skill level.

Yeah....I think we're pretty much in agreement on that

---

Annihilated posted...

Before or after?

Before
---

RetsuZaiZen posted...

Is the Crippler Crossface a choke hold?

remember when the media tried acting like benoit murdered his son with a crossface?

---

Trump isn't really banning chokeholds. that exception for "if the cop is in danger" is his way of "banning it" but giving a wink and nod to the police and to republicans. every cop knows all they have to do is say they feared for their life when asked about the chockeholds.

Antifar posted...

Before

Seems like a mistake, if true. Better to train cops in unarmed submission responsibly, especially if you don't want them to go around clubbing and shooting people.

I have a question, related to an earlier topic.

Are the military, specifically the army, trained in this stuff?

I only ask because I had a roommate in college that said he learned a blood choke hold in basic (guess he didn't specify if he learned it while there or if the army taught it), and I insisted he demonstrate. Largely because I thought I could take the guy, and I have to admit, he was damned efficient.

He might have said he was training to be an MP, which could have some bearing on it.

---

Alteres posted...

I have a question, related to an earlier topic.

Are the military, specifically the army, trained in this stuff?

I only ask because I had a roommate in college that said he learned a blood choke hold in basic (guess he didn't specify if he learned it while there or if the army taught it), and I insisted he demonstrate. Largely because I thought I could take the guy, and I have to admit, he was damned efficient.

He might have said he was training to be an MP, which could have some bearing on it.

They are, but they're not especially good at it. I rolled with both a Navy seal and a combatives level 3 before, and I would say they were maybe a low level blue belt in terms of skill level. Strong af though.

---

Squall28 posted...

They are, but they're not especially good at it. I rolled with both a Navy seal and a combatives level 3 before, and I would say they were maybe a low level blue belt in terms of skill level. Strong af though.

Hmm, thanks for the info.

He took his shit seriously, but I don't really have any basis to say how good he was. I was just an idiot 20 year old with no real interest in mma/martial arts/etc.

He did get me locked down pretty quick, and I wasn't letting him. Then I was out in what seemed like 3-5 seconds. I was awake again in a good bit less than a minute though.

---

Alteres posted...

Hmm, thanks for the info.

He took his shit seriously, but I don't really have any basis to say how good he was. I was just an idiot 20 year old with no real interest in mma/martial arts/etc.

He did get me locked down pretty quick, and I wasn't letting him. Then I was out in what seemed like 3-5 seconds. I was awake again in a good bit less than a minute though.

The thing is, even the gap between a 1 month white belt and some guy of similar athletic ability off the street is humongous. It's like you are playing basketball with someone who never even touched a basketball before. People have absolutely no idea what they're doing. They don't know the rules of the game. They don't know how positions work or how to defend at all. They don't know any sweeps or ways to threaten you. It ends up becoming mindless flailing.

---