Current Events > I'm still angry over what they did to Daenerys (Spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Went from sypathetic character to baby eating monster in 2 episodes. Were they trolling

Needed a whole season for her descent into madness. Putting themselves on the episode schedule was doomed from the start

Autocraticus posted...

Needed a whole season for her descent into madness.

this

they could have made it work but they rushed through it too fast. she just suddenly snapped instantly. it was very stupid. I hate the writers for what they did. HBO said they had all the time they needed to finish the story. they could even do more seasons they said. but the writers just wanted to end up so they could move on to work on Star Wars. and then that got canceled. so it was all pointless. everything I think about it, I get so fucking mad. I really hope those writers get remembered for this and rejected in future projects

Captain_Qwark posted...

She ate a baby?

I don't remember the later seasons

no but she did set them on fire. during the invasion King's Landing she flies her dragon around and starts burning everyone. there is a scene where we an entire family get scorched including some children

Autocraticus posted...

Needed a whole season for her descent into madness. Putting themselves on the episode schedule was doomed from the start

Or at least they could have shown some signs of it in the previous seven seasons.

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subverting expectations

Russo swerve!

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EmbraceOfDeath posted...

Or at least they could have shown some signs of it in the previous seven seasons.

I've only read the first 3 books and read about some of the stuff that happened on the show and that always seemed the logical end of Dany to me. Though I also didn't like her much.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

i mean, that's literally already happened. they were dropped from the SW project because they bungled the end of GoT so much, which they did because they wanted to hurry up and get to the SW project. comeuppance at its finest. sure, the official explanation is that they had a commitment for a Netflix project, and they didn't have time to do both, but that's complete bullshit, and they were 100% dropped on their asses. no Hollywood writer in their right mind would pass up the opportunity to work with Disney on an entire trilogy of SW movies in favor of doing some shitty Netflix original instead, come on.

well i hope the netflix project falls through too

I'm more mad over what they did to Stannis

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D&D are both cordially invited to kiss my ass.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

there are a lot of prior instances where she goes full-on destructive.... but it's on people who deserve it. slavers, swindlers, corrupt rulers, etc. there was absolutely nothing in the show or in the books so far to suggest that she would want to just start slaughtering innocents for absolutely no reason and think that she is making the world a better place.

Eh, the books are always emphasizing how there's a fine line between great justice and madness in the Targaryen line. I also believe she is going to cross some lines in the next book, and that the ending of DwD suggests this.

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even if the book does that too, I am sure the book will tell it much better. she won't just suddenly one day snap for no reason. her turning from a savior to a person who sets children on fire should have taken an entire season to slowly happen

Autocraticus posted...

Needed a whole season for her descent into madness

you had 7, which is the fucking point. It wasn't a slow descent, she constantly choose to act with brutal violence. You simply cheered for her because you felt the people were bad people, therefor it was justified. Then get shockedpikachuface.jpeg when she does it people you think are good.

what they needed was actual chemistry between jon and dani.

Imagine saying the red wedding needed a season to the tyrells and frey's plotting. You know after GRRM went into painstankigly detail about how the frey's don't pick a side until the winner is clear and play all sides until then. And repeatedly brought up guest rights for them to never matter again. But that's already in the books so it's okay, this piece that is grrm's idea is bad because because people are inufferable. Becoming the mad queen is meant to be a sudden reveal you go, "oh damn, she did kill that dude for not kneeling and burned tyrells alive after they surrender, burned the dothraki alive, burned the slave owners alive, i guess it makes sense she keeps choosing to burn people who don't do what she demands

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Sir Will posted...

I've only read the first 3 books and read about some of the stuff that happened on the show and that always seemed the logical end of Dany to me. Though I also didn't like her much.

She has done things that are cruel, but that's not madness, unless most of the lords of Westeros are also mad. She also often worries in the books that she'll go mad like her father, which means she's conscious of it and can more easily avoid turning into him. Book 5 spoilers: I think the more important factor is that she'll likely be against "Aegon" in the books rather than Cersei, and having the throne taken from her by someone with a more legitimate claim (supposedly) will be a much bigger deal.

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I was calling for her heel turn since season 3. Clear as day. If you hadn't seen it before the last two episodes, you weren't paying attention. Or like SevenTenths said, you didn't care because they were the bad guys.

Zikten posted...

even if the book does that too, I am sure the book will tell it much better. she won't just suddenly one day snap for no reason. her turning from a savior to a person who sets children on fire should have taken an entire season to slowly happen

Well in the books, you have the whole Aegon attacking Storm's End plotline that's absent from the show. I'm willing to bet his fate will have a big impact on Dany's actions in the long term.

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MagnusX posted...

I was calling for her heel turn since season 3. Clear as day. If you hadn't seen it before the last two episodes, you weren't paying attention. Or like SevenTenths said, you didn't care because they were the bad guys.

She went from doing bad things to bad people for understandable reasons to doing bad things to everyone for no real reason.

I also don't like Dany becoming the mad queen because it completely diminishes the irony that Cersei is the one following directly in the mad king's footsteps while Dany is more like Tywin with her shows of decisive force against her enemies.

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remember she forgot about eurons ships
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EmbraceOfDeath posted...

I also don't like Dany becoming the mad queen because it completely diminishes the irony that Cersei is the one following directly in the mad king's footsteps while Dany is more like Tywin with her shows of decisive force against her enemies.

god, show Cersei sucked so fucking much

the entire point of her character is that she was constantly fucking up but from her perspective everyone else was a moron and she was always perfect

DuranOfForcena posted...

"The freys would never pick a side, they never picked a side before!!!! GRRM would never do anything for shock value with plenty of foreshadowing including explicity stating the opposite"

yes i know, you're insufferable, why do you feel the need to remind people of it daily?

but yeah, think nailing people to crosses and melting people alive is just 'killing' people. If Viserys was doing it instead of Dani you wouldn't be playing mental gymnastics to justify how you liked the villian of the story. Rather then going, fuck, grrm that's some good writing to get me to agree with the villian for so long. you did tons of great forshadowing and even made us think that because viserys was bad, that dani couldn't be too.

She was taught her entire life that when she came to westeros she would be hailed as a savior and the people would welcome her. Then she got there, wasn't, and saw that she was always going to be viewed as an outsider and that people would always want Jon over her.


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DuranOfForcena posted...

well, not really. Cersei wasn't mad, she was just cruel. she has many more parallels with Maegor the Cruel than she does with The Mad King. going to war with the Faith, blowing up a sept, etc.

No, in the books she's outright paranoid and crazy and has been doing the exact same things the mad king did before he died.

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I know a killer when I see one

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even if it was logical for her to eventually do what she did, I still say they should have shown her gradually change over an entire season or even longer. until the last couple episodes there was never any clue she would ever go so far as to murder entire families and set children on fire. even if that was inevitable that she WOULD do that....I am saying that we should have had a better narrative of her getting to that point. the narrative we got, just had her suddenly flip a switch. it was very stupid and doesn't make for a good story.

Sir Will posted...

Though I also didn't like her much.

worst main POV character by a country mile

she gets insufferable by book 2

willing to cause suffering and mass death because of entitlement

throughout the series she is extremely arrogant and rarely listens to her more experienced advisors


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Paper_Okami posted...

worst main POV character by a country mile

she gets insufferable by book 2

willing to cause suffering and mass death because of entitlement

throughout the series she is extremely arrogant and rarely listens to her more experienced advisors

Bran and Sansa chapters exist so its a tough call.

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If I look back now, I am lost
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she didn't suddenly flip and again, apply your logic to the red wedding to realize how faulty it is.

The show needed more time for Dani and Jon's relationship, yes absolutely. The show did not need more time for dani descent because that defeats the point of it. If melting surrendered soldiers isn't enough for you, nothing is going to be You are supposed to be shocked, then piece together the clues. But because it happened in the show before the books the insuferrables are going to be insufferable.

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floppy bunny ears

I feel real bad for all those she freed

I mean that as in no one is there to protect them anymore from the slavers so it is most likely back to business for them.

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Sir Will posted...

I've only read the first 3 books and read about some of the stuff that happened on the show and that always seemed the logical end of Dany to me. Though I also didn't like her much.

It's not a logical end for her at all. And I'm someone who thinks based on the books that her being a villain in the end is the most logical outcome. Villain doesn't mean "person who just randomly does evil things because they're evil". The problem is that her turn to villainy wasn't consistent with the type of villain that she has actual set up to become. Dany is vengeful towards people who have wronged her and brutal towards her enemies, which she tends to define as anyone who fights against her or who hurts the innocent. A Daenerys whose definition of "enemy" starts to get more and more broad as her arrogant and self-righteous side takes over would make perfect sense. And even in episode 6 where she's talking about how it's her duty to free the oppressed and slay the oppressors and leaving it open for "oppressors" to basically be "anyone with any sort of power who doesn't kiss my ass enough" and she knows better than everyone what's best for them you're getting the kind of villain she makes sense to become. But her episode 5 massacre where she just starts mowing down hundreds of thousands of innocents and goes out of her way to torch a street that is empty aside from a few children and their mother trying to escape doesn't fit with that at all.

She has too much of her self-image invested in the whole protector of the innocent thing. Wiping out enemy prisoners who surrenders? Sure. Going to extreme lengths to win a battle even if it causes a ton of collateral damage? Yeah, I can see that. Responding to the surrender of a city by largely ignoring the person she has a direct personal grudge against in favour of nuking civilians for lulz? Nah, that's a different type of villain than the one she had the groundwork laid to become.

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Frankly, it was insulting that D&D expected us to take their explanation of, "Well, she killed slavers, so massacring an entire city of innocent people was the next logical step," and just accept it.
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Paper_Okami posted...

worst main POV character by a country mile

she gets insufferable by book 2

willing to cause suffering and mass death because of entitlement

throughout the series she is extremely arrogant and rarely listens to her more experienced advisors

Book Daenarys is like 15 lol. A 15 year old thrust into the leadership role and given the most popwerful tool in the world (dragons) is gonna be a little arrogant. You could even argue she's not arrogant enough with all the cards she holds.

Cercii did more random acts of petty cruelty and ruined the lives of many more innocent people than Daenarys, but she got whitewashed hard on the show.

except it fits exactly with her progression of anyone who doesn't declare loyalty to me is my enemy trying to take my throne. She was raised and constantly told that she would be seen as a savior and the people would flock to her and she would just have to deal with the lords. To find out the people didn't love her, didn't want her, and stayed loyal to their lords (for reasons she doesn't understand not being from westeros). The slaves welcomed her against their masters, they embraced her so she saved them. The 'innocents' you describe them as didn't so to dani they were her enemy who she treated with the same ruthless aggression she did all the others. Including those that no longer posed any threat to her.


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UnholyMudcrab posted...

Frankly, it was insulting that D&D expected us to take their explanation of, "Well, she killed slavers, so massacring an entire city of innocent people was the next logical step," and just accept it.

as insulting as it is you think GRRM's ideas are D&Ds

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SevenTenths posted...

she didn't suddenly flip and again, apply your logic to the red wedding to realize how faulty it is.

The show needed more time for Dani and Jon's relationship, yes absolutely. The show did not need more time for dani descent because that defeats the point of it. If melting surrendered soldiers isn't enough for you, nothing is going to be You are supposed to be shocked, then piece together the clues. But because it happened in the show before the books the insuferrables are going to be insufferable.

She didn't melt surrendered soldiers, she executed a pair of traitors who explicitly refused any punishment but death. She did exactly what literally every lord in Westeros would have done in that situation but somehow she's mad for it. And let's not waste time claiming they weren't traitors, because they swore loyalty to the usurper who killed their rightful queen and betrayed their liege lady. Meanwhile Tywin seals an entire house in mines and floods them because they disrespected his father, but nbd, he's totally sane. Stannis executes many people by burning them alive, but he's not mad either.

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Remember when Stannis's dudes asked him to burn more people because they were afraid of freezing to death and he told them "pray harder"

oh wait that was book Stannis, show Stannis was an abomination

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ThePrinceFish posted...

Remember when Stannis's dudes asked him to burn more people because they were afraid of freezing to death and he told them "pray harder"

oh wait that was book Stannis, show Stannis was an abomination

facts

Did they leave ANY character not defiled by their touch in the last seasons?

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ThePrinceFish posted...

Remember when Stannis's dudes asked him to burn more people because they were afraid of freezing to death and he told them "pray harder"

oh wait that was book Stannis, show Stannis was an abomination

Show Stannis wasn't the Mannis, he was the Menace
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