Current Events > Protests perhaps riots going on in Atlanta now over the newest shooting.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mark_DeRosa posted...

No, because its fucking dumb.

Yeah it's so dumb that I expect two people who are specifically trained for situations like this to not be overpowered and outrun by a middle-aged drunk guy who was passed out 10 minutes ago. What was I thinking? Of course they couldn't have controlled Bruce motherfucking Banner over here

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Lol so how much experience have you armchair guys had in subduing drunks?

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Enough to know that this ain't it

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Did we wake up in opposite world where drunk people are easy now lol? Why do you think bouncers use the toughest biggest dudes they can find. The hardest fights Ive been on were guys that were either drunk or high. They normally dont feel pain. You cant predict anything theyre going to do, theyre state of mind is everywhere and anywhere. Its never over until theyre in the car seat belted

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eston posted...

Enough to know that this ain't it

Calming a drunk friend down isnt the same as detaining a belligerent drunk fighting you. Im a big guy with a decade of security/bouncing experience and I can tell you the hardest people to subdue are the fighting drunks.

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Exactly wtf. Theres a reason why the nightclub overtimes rarely have sign ups for us. Because theres always drunks fighting that are impossible to control. I rmember being deployed and my buddy who is 250 63 of muscle was drunk and got into a fight in the barracks. It literally took close to 8 people just all holding him back. Its not easy holding down a drunk person

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Mark_DeRosa posted...

https://i.imgur.com/9gxfGox.jpg

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Mark_DeRosa posted...

Exactly wtf. Theres a reason why the nightclub overtimes rarely have sign ups for us. Because theres always drunks fighting that are impossible to control. I rmember being deployed and my buddy who is 250 63 of muscle was drunk and got into a fight in the barracks. It literally took close to 8 people just all holding him back. Its not easy holding down a drunk person

Add in the fact that they dont feel pain the same way sober people do.

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Yeah sorry I'm not buying that. When you are in the process of cuffing someone, as this officer was doing while standing behind the man, there is a specific way to hold them so that if they resist you can put them in an armbar. If the officer was doing this correctly it is very unlikely that this dude should have been able to suddenly jerk his body and send both officers to the ground. Again, we train these people for a reason. A cop is not a bouncer and they don't serve the same role. If you, as a bouncer, get in a fight with a drunk guy and he starts running away, would you pull out a gun and shoot him in the back? Probably not

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Nothing like a good Monday morning quarterback

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What a super compelling argument

Do you think the police could have done something differently here?

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eston posted...

When you have two officers placing someone under arrest, and one of those officers is literally standing behind the person putting cuffs on, there is no excuse for that person suddenly being able to throw both officers on the ground and steal a taser. The officers are trained for a reason. You can fuck right off with this "hurhur you never been in a fight" stuff, it has nothing to do with this situation

Sweet Christ.

I would let you have all the training in the world, be cordial and compliant with you for 30 minutes, and then turn suddenly, violently resistive.

I guarantee you wouldnt be able to put me in handcuffs without a knock-down, drag-out fight.

This is real life; drunk, violent subjects are some of the most difficult arrests. Your training will take you so far, but you need to incapacitate a man who isnt feeling much pain. Pain compliance is out of the question now. You cant use a choke of any kind; those are hot-button issues that even a properly trained BJJ practitioner wouldnt attempt in this climate.

So, youre in a fight wearing 20-30 lbs. of extra gear, trying to place a man in handcuffs while his only thought process is to punch and kick and fight.

Real street fights are fucking messy. They suck.

See the video of two Pennsylvania State Police Troopers attempting to arrest a man following a DUI who is able to free himself, get to his car, grab a gun, and shoot them both.

Its so easy to watch a video and criticize. Its different to be the one having to fight for your life out there with a guy who doesnt want to go to jail.

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Patchwork posted...

Sweet Christ.

I would let you have all the training in the world, be cordial and compliant with you for 30 minutes, and then turn suddenly, violently resistive.

I guarantee you wouldnt be able to put me in handcuffs without a knock-down, drag-out fight.

This is real life; drunk, violent subjects are some of the most difficult arrests. Your training will take you so far, but you need to incapacitate a man who isnt feeling much pain. Pain compliance is out of the question now. You cant use a choke of any kind; those are hot-button issues that even a properly trained BJJ practitioner wouldnt attempt in this climate.

So, youre in a fight wearing 20-30 lbs. of extra gear, trying to place a man in handcuffs while his only thought process is to punch and kick and fight.

Real street fights are fucking messy. They suck.

See the video of two Pennsylvania State Police Troopers attempting to arrest a man following a DUI who is able to free himself, get to his car, grab a gun, and shoot them both.

Its so easy to watch a video and criticize. Its different to be the one having to fight for your life out there with a guy who doesnt want to go to jail.

Then let him run away. Impound his car, issue an arrest warrant, and then use the tools and resources police have to track him down and arrest him. Why in the everliving fuck would they shoot him in the back

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eston posted...

What a super compelling argument

Do you think the police could have done something differently here?

Dude, Ive tried. But you dont seem to understand how volatile and fast these situations are. You sit there and judge like there is a procedure to this. Not every subject places their hands behind their back without any resistance for you to cuff them. If someone really wants to fight you, it can be life or death anything goes.planning and calculation are out the door

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eston posted...

Then let him run away. Impound his car, issue an arrest warrant, and then use the tools and resources police have to track him down and arrest him. Why in the everliving f*** would they shoot him in the back

At what point do you stop? After youve taken a cops weapon, after you used it against them? He wasnt shot in the back running. He was shot the minute he turned around and shot the taser at the cop

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Patchwork posted...

Its different to be the one having to fight for your life out there with a guy who doesnt want to go to jail.

Is it still fighting for your life when you shoot someone in the back as they run away?

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Iron-Tarkus posted...

Is it still fighting for your life when you shoot someone in the back as they run away?

Again, he was shot once he was facing the officer and shot the taser

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleeing_felon_rule

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eston posted...

Yeah sorry I'm not buying that. When you are in the process of cuffing someone, as this officer was doing while standing behind the man, there is a specific way to hold them so that if they resist you can put them in an armbar. If the officer was doing this correctly it is very unlikely that this dude should have been able to suddenly jerk his body and send both officers to the ground. Again, we train these people for a reason. A cop is not a bouncer and they don't serve the same role. If you, as a bouncer, get in a fight with a drunk guy and he starts running away, would you pull out a gun and shoot him in the back? Probably not

Lol there is no way to predict how a suspect is going to resist. Everything becomes reactionary when they decide theyre not going peacefully. Youre not going to get A-B-C in a fight. And do you know how hard it is to put someone in an arm bar or shoulder lock when theyre swinging and dragging you everywhere? Stop watching the movies...it doesnt work like that.

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Mark_DeRosa posted...

Dude, Ive tried. But you dont seem to understand how volatile and fast these situations are. You sit there and judge like there is a procedure to this. Not every subject places their hands behind their back without any resistance for you to cuff them. If someone really wants to fight you, it can be life or death anything goes.planning and calculation are out the door

He literally had the man's hands behind his back, and yes there are specific techniques to this

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eston posted...

He literally had the man's hands behind his back, and yes there are specific techniques to this

Its pretty easy to turn around or break free.

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Mark_DeRosa posted...

At what point do you stop? After youve taken a cops weapon, after you used it against them? He wasnt shot in the back running. He was shot the minute he turned around and shot the taser at the cop

He was shot in the back running and it was clear as day. You can see when the taser shocks the officer and the man continues running

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According to CE it's totally fine to physically assault two police officers and steal one of their weapons. Like no biggie man, just let the guy run away.

Thank God CE isn't actually in charge of anything lol

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Mark_DeRosa posted...

Its pretty easy to turn around or break free.

It really isn't though, which is the entire point of why they employ the techniques they do. It's about maintaining control

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Heavy_D_Forever posted...

According to CE it's totally fine to physically assault two police officers and steal one of their weapons. Like no biggie man, just let the guy run away.

Thank God CE isn't actually in charge of anything lol

No one said it was fine, just that you shouldn't be killed for it. Dude committed a felony, he should have been charged with a crime.

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Heavy_D_Forever posted...

According to CE it's totally fine to physically assault two police officers and steal one of their weapons. Like no biggie man, just let the guy run away.

Nobody is saying his actions were ok, they're saying he didn't deserve to die over them. Also that the cops could have handled the situation far better.
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DoctorPiranha3 posted...

If someone assaults you and steals your weapon, you're not going to be calm and gentle. Instincts kicked in.

It's basic science. Not sure why everyone here thinks they're some angelic pacifist totally incapable of doing anything wrong in a moment of rushed adrenaline. No telling what that dude could have done if he escaped, given he assaulted cops and stole a weapon. It'd be one thing if he just straight up ran, but he assaulted them and stole a weapon.

Nothing like George Floyd. Fake outrage. Those cops will be reinstated.

Guess what? If someone breaks into your house, you get into an altercation, they run, and you shoot them in the back, you're getting brought up on charges. You don't have the badge to hide behind to absolve you from all wrongdoing.

The other difference is that most people that get into a conflict during a break in aren't trained for high stress situations, but they're still expected to not shoot a fleeing intruder. Cops are supposed to be trained for these situations, but when they shoot someone in the back, "oh well that was justified self defense"

Get out of here with this shit
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eston posted...

It really isn't though, which is the entire point of why they employ the techniques they do. It's about maintaining control

Dude, stop...youre straight up bullshitting at this point. You literally have people with experience telling you it doesnt usually go by the book and youre telling them theyre wrong.

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Nobody deserves to die, I think you guys are looking at it the wrong way. Does anybody truly deserve to be killed besides like an active shooter? No. But it became a violent felonious action that resulted in endangering officers lives and the public once he starts running away.

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The way I look at this the police failed at two points. Number one is they failed to control the situation. Blah blah fighting drunk people is hard, whatever. Fighting two cops should also be hard, but that's neither here nor there. They let him take control and break free.

Once he started running, they shot him. Fail #2. There was no pressing reason to do that. They could have either let him go and find him later to make the arrest, or pursue him at a safe distance (because a drunk guy isn't going to run very far or very fast) and then engage him again.

The first fail I could excuse, but second one absolutely not

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scorpion41 posted...

Dude, stop...youre straight up bullshitting at this point. You literally have people with experience telling you it doesnt usually go by the book and youre telling them theyre wrong.

my last fight was in a hospital last week. We grabbed him how we are trained. Using the using armbar escort tech. First he did, was lock up and go up against a wall so we couldnt put his arms behind his back. He ends up shifting his momentum and falling on top of me and I had to grab him in like a headlock, like a ddt falling down. While my partner and a security guard grabbed arms attempting to cuff him. It never goes by the book


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scorpion41 posted...

Dude, stop...youre straight up bullshitting at this point. You literally have people with experience telling you it doesnt usually go by the book and youre telling them theyre wrong.

We're all just words on a screen here, I could say I'm a cop but who is going to believe me

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How are the cops the bad guys in this situation? Doesn't look like they did anything out of line in that video.

eston posted...

The way I look at this the police failed at two points. Number one is they failed to control the situation. Blah blah fighting drunk people is hard, whatever. Fighting two cops should also be hard, but that's neither here nor there. They let him take control and break free.

Once he started running, they shot him. Fail #2. There was no pressing reason to do that. They could have either let him go and find him later to make the arrest, or pursue him at a safe distance (because a drunk guy isn't going to run very far or very fast) and then engage him again.

The first fail I could excuse, but second one absolutely not

youre excluding the part where he took a cops weapons and used it against him. He was also shot the second he turned around and used it on him. Ive addressed that 3 times in this topic and you ignore it


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Mark_DeRosa posted...

my last fight was in a hospital last week. We grabbed him how we are trained. Using the using armbar escort tech. First he did, was lock up and go up against a wall so we couldnt put his arms behind his back. He ends up shifting his momentum and falling on top of me and I had to grab him in like a headlock, like a ddt falling down. While my partner and a security guard grabbed arms attempting to cuff him. It never goes by the book

So how many times did you shoot him

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eston posted...

We're all just words on a screen here, I could say I'm a cop but who is going to believe me

Well some users itt have proof they're officers and you just have the worst emotion over logic takes imaginable. Hope to christ you aren't a cop.

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Mark_DeRosa posted...

youre excluding the part where he took a cops weapons and used it against him. He was also shot the second he turned around and used it on him. Ive addressed that 3 times in this topic and you ignore it

Hence why you pursue him at a safe distance or not at all. Tasers have extremely limited application and range, and that's all he had

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eston posted...

So how many times did you shoot him

0

he did not take my weapon and use it against me

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eston posted...

Hence why you pursue him at a safe distance or not at all. Tasers have extremely limited application and range, and that's all he had

you realize in court you judge from the perspective of a reasonable officer without 20/20 hindsight. How can you determine the range, the application, when youre chasing a guy that just stole your taser and its pointed at you. You think the split second he has time to think of the range, think of the application. If anything the situation helps his case. Running on concrete and he got tased. If it wasnt for that car he crashed into hes going possibly head first on concrete running at full speed with a locked up body

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If it's too risky to chase him, then don't. That's a judgement call police make all the time. Bottom line is they didnt need to shoot him

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eston posted...

We're all just words on a screen here, I could say I'm a cop but who is going to believe me

Oh, I can tell youre not a cop. Youd be either fired or dead already, if not made a permanent desk jockey.

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ThePrinceFish posted...

Probably because you're posting on a vehemently anti-cop far leftist board.

Why hello there bootlicker.

eston posted...

If it's too risky to chase him, then don't. That's a judgement call police make all the time. Bottom line is they didnt need to shoot him

Dude its escalated to a violent felony. All bets are off at this point. You just dont give up

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eston posted...

The way I look at this the police failed at two points. Number one is they failed to control the situation. Blah blah fighting drunk people is hard, whatever. Fighting two cops should also be hard, but that's neither here nor there. They let him take control and break free.

The difference is the police have to operate under rules in that same fight, and their goal is to bring that man under control. His goal is to just not be arrested. That gives him a very significant advantage. The police have to be reactionary to his aggression level, because if they use too much force too early, theyll be crucified.

Once he started running, they shot him. Fail #2. There was no pressing reason to do that. They could have either let him go and find him later to make the arrest, or pursue him at a safe distance (because a drunk guy isn't going to run very far or very fast) and then engage him again.

Im glad youre an expert on how alcohol affects everyone. I had a guy who shot six bags of heroin laced with fentanyl run three fucking blocks after an armed robbery, and I shouldnt have to explain how much more potent that is. People are inherently unpredictable on any substance, and this idea that an intoxicated person cant run is ridiculous.

Say they go with your suggestion. They let him just run away free and clear. He knows hes going to jail. He knows hell have a warrant. He barricades himself in his home when you try to serve it.

Now what?

Well, golly gee, just wait til he turns himself in on those violent felony charges. Im sure he will. He demonstrated such accountability for his actions already.

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Mark_DeRosa posted...

Dude its escalated to a violent felony. All bets are off at this point. You just dont give up

Bullshit, people get arrested after the fact all the time

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eston posted...

If it's too risky to chase him, then don't. That's a judgement call police make all the time. Bottom line is they didnt need to shoot him

Exactly.
its not like he is going to drive anywhere, he left his car.

impound his fucking car, dont follow him and show up the next day to his home to arrest him, with the entire PD if theyre such huge betas that they are so scared of a single man.

im sure he will be right at home waiting. Even with the taser cleaned to give it back. Pretty sure it wont be a barricade right

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eston posted...

Bullshit, people get arrested after the fact all the time

But this isnt all the time m. Not a lot of situations like this

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Unknown368 posted...

Why hello there bootlicker.

@ThePrinceFish