Current Events > We repay Native Americans but not African-Americans. Should that change?

(+) Yeah! (+)

With all this Black Lives Matter stuff going on nowadays, it has me wondering what politicians are doing to address the issue (the answer: nothing). Should that change? Native Americans had it pretty bad, but did African-Americans have it bad as well? And if so, should they receive something like the stimulus payment specifically for that?

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Native Americans are "repaid"?

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...are you proposing we march black people, trail of tears style, to shitty reservation land?

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Are you suggesting we make new reservations?

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ImAMarvel posted...

Absolutely but honestly, we don't even repay the Native Americans either though we really should.

I have a friend that gets a $1000 check every year for being part Native American

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we can never fully repay native americans for what we did to them.

even after all we have given them since, it's not enough. and never will be. also most native Americans don't get as much as people believe they do

anyway, we should give SOMETHING to black people. they have earned it. We have the money. maybe cut our bloated military budget and use that.

xMythic posted...

Native Americans are "repaid"?

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How are we ever supposed to move forward as a people when everyone keeps dredging up the past?

thronedfire2 posted...

I have a friend that gets a $1000 check every year for being part Native American

Some Tribes, usually the wealthier ones, issue their enrolled members regular per-cap payments. Just to be clear, that money comes from their own Tribe, not from the state or federal governments.

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PokemonYoutube posted...

How are we ever supposed to move forward as a people when everyone keeps dredging up the past?

This is a very convienent stance for someone entirely repeating the benefits of that supposedly distance past and who suffered none of the burdens.

I very much doubt you'd be saying the same if a group of people did the same to you and you somehow lived through it. It's like the kid on the playground that goes around punching everyone, but then says no punch backs when people try to return the favor.

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Reparations is the only sensical thing to do. It should be in the form of federal funds allocated to black communities and black businesses.

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PokemonYoutube posted...

How are we ever supposed to move forward as a people when everyone keeps dredging up the past?

why do people keep going "9/11 never forget" then

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xMythic posted...

Native Americans are "repaid"?

This but yeah there should definitely be reparations. Abraham Lincoln had a plan in place but the traitor Andrew Johnson (Lincolns successor) went back on it and gave the land to Confederate traitors.

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DeathDeathSong posted...

why do people keep going "9/11 never forget" then

Patriotism. And also, y'know, being way more recent than slavery and the Native American wars. There are actually people alive today that suffered from 9/11. There is nobody alive today that suffered from slavery or the Native American wars.

First four parts of Elijah Muhammad's Muslim Program

1. We want freedom. We want a full and complete freedom.

2. We want justice. Equal justice under the law. We want justice applied equally to all, regardless of creed
or class or color.

3. We want equality of opportunity. We want equal membership in society with the best in civilized society.

4. We want our people in America whose parents or grandparents were descendants from slaves, to be allowed to establish a separate state or territory of their owneither on this continent or elsewhere. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to provide such land and that the area must be fertile and minerally rich. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to maintain and supply our needs in this separate territory for the next 20 to 25 yearsuntil we are able to produce and supply our own needs.
Since we cannot get along with them in peace and equality, after giving them 400 years of our sweat and blood and receiving in return some of the worst treatment human beings have ever experienced, we believe our contributions to this land and the suffering forced upon us by white America, justifies our demand for complete separation in a state or territory of our own.

Honestly I feel Separation, done right, is the only real solution to the USA's race problem. AfBlack Americans should be given a choice on if they want to continue living in the USA or if they want to have the opportunity to build a Land of their own with the support of the US Government for a period of time until the Territory or state becomes fully self sufficient

We've been forced to adopt foreign language, culture and customs. Stripped of our true history and destiny. forced to fit in others constructs and treated as invaders, threats and foreigners on our own land. We deserve the opportunity to build a true nation of our own and enjoy a full and complete freedom without having to live up to another group of peoples value system. We need time on our own so we can discover ourselves, heal the wounds of oppression and fulfill our true potential as a people uninhibited. All groups of people deserve and demand this we should be able to enjoy real freedom as well

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2Pacavelli posted...

First four parts of Elijah Muhammad's Muslim Program

1. We want freedom. We want a full and complete freedom.

2. We want justice. Equal justice under the law. We want justice applied equally to all, regardless of creed
or class or color.

3. We want equality of opportunity. We want equal membership in society with the best in civilized society.

4. We want our people in America whose parents or grandparents were descendants from slaves, to be allowed to establish a separate state or territory of their owneither on this continent or elsewhere. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to provide such land and that the area must be fertile and minerally rich. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to maintain and supply our needs in this separate territory for the next 20 to 25 yearsuntil we are able to produce and supply our own needs.
Since we cannot get along with them in peace and equality, after giving them 400 years of our sweat and blood and receiving in return some of the worst treatment human beings have ever experienced, we believe our contributions to this land and the suffering forced upon us by white America, justifies our demand for complete separation in a state or territory of our own.

Honestly I feel Separation, done right, is the only real solution to the USA's race problem. AfBlack Americans should be given a choice on if they want to continue living in the USA or if they want to have the opportunity to build a Land of their own with the support of the US Government for a period of time until the Territory or state becomes fully self sufficient

We've been forced to adopt foreign language, culture and customs. Stripped of our true history and destiny. forced to fit in others constructs and treated as invaders, threats and foreigners on our own land. We deserve the opportunity to build a true nation of our own and enjoy a full and complete freedom without having to live up to another group of peoples value system. We need time on our own so we can discover ourselves, heal the wounds of oppression and fulfill our true potential as a people uninhibited. All groups of people deserve and demand this we should be able to enjoy real freedom as well

Okay there, black Gandhi. Put down the Kool-Aid. You've had enough.

xMythic posted...

Native Americans are "repaid"?

If you are 25% Native American or more, you get a huge grant to pay for college from the government, thats probably what TC is talking about.

Reparations for slavery sound good in principle, but are a lot harder to implement than those for Native Americans. It is a lot easier to track and prove that you are a member of a federally recognized tribe than your ancestor was a slave 200 years ago unfortunately

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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

If you are 25% Native American or more, you get a huge grant to pay for college from the government, thats probably what TC is talking about.

Reparations for slavery sound good in principle, but are a lot harder to implement than those for Native Americans. It is a lot easier to track and prove that you are a member of a federally recognized tribe than your ancestor was a slave 200 years ago unfortunately

I'm Native American and enrolled in a federally recognized tribe. I'm currently attending college and I can confirm there is no such "huge grant" to pay for college. That is just one of the many myths that people believe about Native Americans and the supposed benefits, or payments, we receive. It simply isn't true.

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xMythic posted...

I'm Native American and enrolled in a federally recognized tribe. I'm currently attending college and I can confirm there is no such "huge grant" to pay for college. That is just one of the many myths that people believe about Native Americans and the supposed benefits, or payments, we receive. It simply isn't true.

My sister in law is 50% and got a chunk of her school paid for, I guess I dont know all the details.

https://www.finaid.org/otheraid/natamind.phtml

Maybe she got some other scholarships or school specific grants too.

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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

I guess I dont know all the details.

Post this first, not last.
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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

My sister in law is 50% and got her whole school paid for, I guess I dont know all the details.

Yeah I understand, it can be pretty complicated. There are some schools that give specific funding for Native Americans, some Tribes give their members scholarship money, and there are a few scholarship funds specifically for Natives. But simply being Native isn't enough to get your schooling paid for. Didn't mean to get after you, it's just a touchy subject when I see people thinking we get all these benefits when we really don't.

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As someone who grew up on a reservation, the only thing they got repaid with was being allowed limited rights for the shittiest parts of their own land they lived on for generations if they managed to survive all the genocidal actions.

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Any benefit the US government gave to the indigenous tribes is an insult after the atrocities that took place during the Indian Wars.

African Americans who fought in the Civil War did receive land and other accommodations. Of course the jealousy from Confederate soldiers after losing the war is a contributing factor to the creation of the hate group the KKK.

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First off what is "we" supposed to mean anyway. For many of us our families didn't even come to this country until long after these events happened, so why do we owe anything? I mean for fucks sake, the Irish came to America in the first place because our ancestors were fleeing from genocide themselves. So unless this will be some type of payment that only certain ethnicities have to pay then its a bit ridiculous.

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Gamerguymass posted...

First off what is "we" supposed to mean anyway. For many of us our families didn't even come to this country until long after these events happened, so why do we owe anything? I mean for fucks sake, the Irish came to America in the first place because our ancestors were fleeing from genocide themselves. So unless this will be some type of payment that only certain ethnicities have to pay then its a bit ridiculous.

Nonono. You're white. The slave owners were white. Therefore you're just as guilty as the slave owners. That's how this victim mentality works apparently.

PokemonYoutube posted...

Nonono. You're white. The slave owners were white. Therefore you're just as guilty as the slave owners. That's how this victim mentality works apparently.

I note that you didn't respond to my post, but you immediately respond to this post that furthers your victim mentality. Funny how that works.

It's funny how people are true blue original Americans when it's time to share the benefits of America, but it's everyone's family just arrived here yesterday from some oppressed country when it's time to share the burdens. I actually did just arrive here, I wasn't even born in the US, my family isn't white, but I still support reparations to indigenous populations. I benefit from the existence of the country that committed those acts, I even lived on the very land that was stolen, therefore payment is only right. None of us would be expected to do this if earlier generations had done the right thing. How do I fit into your victim narrative?

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legendary_zell posted...

It's funny how people are true blue original Americans when it's time to share the benefits of America, but it's everyone's family just arrived here yesterday from some oppressed country when it's time to share the burdens.

Fact they're hypocrites. Also the USA rebuilt Europe, Japan and Israel on our tax dollars and they arent even citizens. No one complained then. If foreigners cab be rebuilt then the two most devastated communities in the USA can as well. Especially Black Americans who have received no Reparations at all

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Zikten posted...

also most native Americans don't get as much as people believe they do

It's extremely location dependent. As someone who grew up right next to a reservation a tribe either has a casino and is rolling in monthly per-capita checks for every individual or they live in extreme poverty. In the 90s when I was a kid the reservation next to me didn't have a casino yet and natives barely had running water. Now every single one of them get almost two grand a month from the casino.

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2Pacavelli posted...

Fact they're hypocrites. Also the USA rebuilt Europe, Japan and Israel on our tax dollars and they arent even citizens. No one complained then. If foreigners cab be rebuilt then the two most devastated communities in the USA can as well. Especially Black Americans who have received no Reparations at all

You're omitting huge parts of the story here to suit your narrative. America wasn't exactly doing that out of generosity. The Marshall Plan largely consisted of LOANS, not gifts. And it was in America's interest to prevent the ravaged Europe from falling into the Soviet Union's sphere of influence. At the same time, it created a market for America to sell their mass-produced goods to. So you can keep pretending that it was America being "charitable", but it was fueled by nothing but American self-interest.

There already are reparations.

Its only a grant for college, otherwise its f*** off

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PokemonYoutube posted...

You're omitting huge parts of the story here to suit your narrative. America wasn't exactly doing that out of generosity. The Marshall Plan largely consisted of LOANS, not gifts. And it was in America's interest to prevent the ravaged Europe from falling into the Soviet Union's sphere of influence. At the same time, it created a market for America to sell their mass-produced goods to. So you can keep pretending that it was America being "charitable", but it was fueled by nothing but American self-interest.

There's no reason why a Marshall Plan cant be constructed for Black Americans.

It allowed Taiwan and Japan to take over the Semiconductors and Electronics industries. And Germany to take over the Automobile industry (outsourcing manufacturing Jobs that Black Americans traditionally held in Detroit and other cities.)

A Marshall Plan in the USA that allows African Americans to specialize in a specific industry and build an independent economy based in those industries and that would not only be beneficial to Black Americans but even more so this Nation since its actual citizens benefiting. It would improve social conditions throughout the country. The USAs duty is to its own citizens first

Also Reparations is not charity, its recompense for the work done to build this country and put it over the top. After the hundreds of years of abuse, 20-25 years of real effort to build Black America up to where it should be is the least that can be done especially if it's mutually beneficial. And even if it was not it still is what must be done otherwise, don't expect any real peace in this country any time soon. The same strife and conflict going back to the Civil Rights Movement and before will continue to repeat itself.

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2Pacavelli posted...

There's no reason why a Marshall Plan cant be constructed for Black Americans.

It allowed Taiwan and Japan to take over the Semiconductors and Electronics industries. And Germany to take over the Automobile industry (outsourcing manufacturing Jobs that Black Americans traditionally held in Detroit and other cities.)

A Marshall Plan in the USA that allows African Americans to specialize in a specific industry and build an independent economy based in those industries and that would not only be beneficial to Black Americans but even more so this Nation since its actual citizens benefiting. It would improve social conditions throughout the country. The USAs duty is to its own citizens first

Also Reparations is not charity, its recompense for the work done to build this country and put it over the top. After the hundreds of years of abuse, 20-25 years of real effort to build Black America up to where it should be is the least that can be done especially if it's mutually beneficial. And even if it was not it still is what Murray be done otherwise, don't expect any real peace in this country any time soon. The same strife and conflict going back to the Civil Rights Movement and before will continue to repeat itself.

lol

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I don't think it's a good idea, but that's not a debate I'm willing to have here because of the strict ToS. I'm 100% for BLM, btw

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PokemonYoutube posted...

Patriotism. And also, y'know, being way more recent than slavery and the Native American wars.

stop dredging up the past its time to get over it :/
plus that doesnt even answer my question. why is this something we cant ever forget

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Not from the government. But a case could be made that wealthy direct descendants of slave owners should make payments to direct descendants of slaves their family owned. Claims would have to be verified thru birth records or dna. You would also need to show a link between the slave owners' estate and their descendant.

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/international-law-demands-reparations-for-american-slavery-11591744294

https://youtu.be/V1h-ncfqswE

International Law Demands for Reparations for Slavery

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DeathDeathSong posted...

stop dredging up the past its time to get over it :/
plus that doesnt even answer my question. why is this something we cant ever forget

They say that now, but in 200 years, nobody will ever bring it up any more.

Lincoln allocated land for them then Andrew Jackson gave it to the confederates instead

2Pacavelli posted...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/international-law-demands-reparations-for-american-slavery-11591744294

https://youtu.be/V1h-ncfqswE

International Law Demands for Reparations for Slavery

seeing that the big european nations were the main "provider" of slaves throughout the americas, will they be footing a substantial portion of the reparations?

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PokemonYoutube posted...

How are we ever supposed to move forward as a people when everyone keeps dredging up the past?

I've seen people pull this argument before. "Yeah I've fucked you over several times, but you need to move forward and get over it!"

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...create black reservations and allow them to have casinos?

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monkmith posted...

seeing that the big european nations were the main "provider" of slaves throughout the americas, will they be footing a substantial portion of the reparations?

Seeing that you kept your slaves instead of letting them be free after you kicked out the Europeans, it is all on you.

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Foppe posted...

Seeing that you kept your slaves instead of letting them be free after you kicked out the Europeans, it is all on you.

...i kept slaves?

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monkmith posted...

...i kept slaves?

You as in America, yes.

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Foppe posted...

You as in America, yes.

OK and again I need to bring up, most of our families didn't come here until after slavery. The Irish and the Italians for one. I mean the only reason the Irish even came here in the first place is because they were escaping genocide at the hands of the English. We weren't even considered to be white until sometime in the 1900s for fucks sake. So we never owned slaves, so why do we owe anything?

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Gamerguymass posted...

OK and again I need to bring up, most of our families didn't come here until after slavery. The Irish and the Italians for one. I mean the only reason the Irish even came here in the first place is because they were escaping genocide at the hands of the English. We weren't even considered to be white until sometime in the 1900s for fucks sake. So we never owned slaves, so why do we owe anything?

cause you participated and benefited off of the systematic oppression of Black Americans. I love this comment so much, when its tearing down statues youre all like its mah heritage but when it comes to reparations you suddenly have little to no connection with this country lmao

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

cause you participated and benefited off of the systematic oppression of Black Americans. I love this comment so much, when its tearing down statues youre all like its mah heritage but when it comes to reparations you suddenly have little to no connection with this country lmao

b8

Gamerguymass posted...

OK and again I need to bring up, most of our families didn't come here until after slavery. The Irish and the Italians for one. I mean the only reason the Irish even came here in the first place is because they were escaping genocide at the hands of the English. We weren't even considered to be white until sometime in the 1900s for fucks sake. So we never owned slaves, so why do we owe anything?

Was anyone in your family denied access to low interest loans through the GI bill? Denied access to labor unions? Coerced into predatory loans through racist federal policy? Had their land and/or possessions stolen through jim crow laws? Given an unjust conviction simply because of the color of their skin?

That's just the stuff that happened on a general populace level; there are of course countless stories of people being lynched, beaten, wrongfully convicted, run from their homes simply because they were black. State sanctioned oppression and terrorism didn't end with slavery

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