Current Events > What makes lyrics good or bad to you?

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Complexity? The way they flow together? Rhyming? The feeling you get? Imagery? Telling a story?

What do you think makes for bad lyrics?

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The underlying meaning of the lyrics and how clear that meaning is.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

The underlying meaning of the lyrics and how clear that meaning is.

Well put. Mostly this.

FulminatedHydra posted...

What do you think makes for bad lyrics?

Lyrics that jump from one subject to another with no segway.

Like rappers who have a line about being hard, followed by a line about how they're relationship isn't mutual, followed by a line about being in the club, followed by gun talk.

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wordplay. The way the words play off eachother. Not necessarily rhyming

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So:

consistent storytelling

How sentences fit with and play off each other

I would also add making sure the emotion of the music is conveyed accurately through the lyrics. A well timed word/sentence at a key musical swell or diminuendo can really just hit your soul I feel like

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Good lyrics are lyrics I can relate to. Or just generally lyrics that make me feel stuff.

Bad lyrics are lyrics that would make me cringe if I said them.

Read the lyrics to Me Against the World by 2 Pac. Those are "good" lyrics. Then read the lyrics to any Soulja Boy song.

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I ask because I'm composing lyrics for one of my favorite piano pieces of all time, Nuvole Bianche by Ludovico Einaudi. My favorite singer, David Phelps, did so with Moonlight Sonata and it's absolutely beautiful.

Lyrics (moonlight sonata, not mine):

Holding you, in the moonlight, I barely breathe
But I dare not release you, it might just be a dream
Moonlight
Moonlight
Feeling the warmth, of your essence
Linger on me
Intertwined, I remember, love, how it used to be
Moonlight
Moonlight
The twilight fades, and dawn invades
I beg of you please, please, won't you stay
Moonlight
Moonlight

https://youtu.be/h1EkBQ4Xbjw

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Sounds like she saying no and you aren't stopping. That not good!

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It depends on the music - I really do have to be convinced of what's going on musically first before I start believing the lyrics. If it's something like rap.. err, I dunno - I love the beautiful message of 'Keep Ya Head Up' by Tupac but honestly I've always adored and respected the complete honesty hip-hop and rap offers me. There's an edge that doesn't exist by being shy about what you really wanna say:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufKxCclo7-c

That's^ really different from something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfMnNqn-hKg

Good lyrics reference food:
"We eat so many shrimp, I got iodine poisoning" - Pimp C
"Ayo, this rap is like ziti, facin' me real TV, crash at high speeds, strawberry kiwi." - Ghostface Killah
"I don't eat no ham and eggs, 'cause they're high in cholesterol" - A Tribe Called Quest
" I just ordered me some lunch, Korean spicy garlic" - Chief Keef

Etc.

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Butterfiles posted...

Good lyrics reference food:
"We eat so many shrimp, I got iodine poisoning" - Pimp C
"Ayo, this rap is like ziti, facin' me real TV, crash at high speeds, strawberry kiwi." - Ghostface Killah
"I don't eat no ham and eggs, 'cause they're high in cholesterol" - A Tribe Called Quest
" I just ordered me some lunch, Korean spicy garlic" - Chief Keef

Etc.

Here's a song for you

https://youtu.be/0yw5Mf9RlW0

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RedJackson posted...

It depends on the music - I really do have to be convinced of what's going on musically first before I start believing the lyrics. If it's something like rap.. err, I dunno - I love the beautiful message of 'Keep Ya Head Up' by Tupac but honestly I've always adored and respected the complete honesty hip-hop and rap offers me. There's an edge that doesn't exist by being shy about what you really wanna say:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufKxCclo7-c

That's^ really different from something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfMnNqn-hKg

True. I think rap (at least the kind that I like) tends to have a directness that some other genres don't. Not as many metaphors and vagueness. But I feel like as long as the idea is there and consistently represented you can be as vague as you want.

And in the end, I really feel like the music itself is what the lyrics need to play off of thematically. It can work to have sad lyrics for an upbeat song or vice versa of course, a lot of great songs do this. But theme can certainly determine whether lyrics fit or not

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Songs about sex feel lame and cheap.

It boils down to: "Im horny"

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RedJackson posted...

It depends on the music - I really do have to be convinced of what's going on musically first before I start believing the lyrics. If it's something like rap.. err, I dunno - I love the beautiful message of 'Keep Ya Head Up' by Tupac but honestly I've always adored and respected the complete honesty hip-hop and rap offers me. There's an edge that doesn't exist by being shy about what you really wanna say:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufKxCclo7-c

That's^ really different from something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfMnNqn-hKg

edit: I saw that example of Nuvole Bianche - I'm probably in the uber minority but err.. I personally hate it when they try and add words to a song that speaks on it's own.. Round Midnight by Thelonius Monk is a perfect example of this because the Ella Fitzgerald version just kills it for me. It's like I'm drinking snazzy Martini's instead of an entire bottle of cheap ass, ten-dollar whiskey. I guess it depends on the singer y'know?

Well, that's moonlighting sonata.... it's also a pretty atypical song for David; he's a high, operatic tenor who usually belts out songs. But I understand what you mean. A well written piano piece like Moonlight Sonata or Nuvole Bianche tell a story melodically, and if you try to sing over it in a manner that takes away from the underlying melody and sonic storytelling, it's like drowning a dish in ketchup instead of accentuating the flavor.

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FulminatedHydra posted...

Well, that's moonlighting sonata.... it's also a pretty atypical song for David; he's a high, operatic tenor who usually belts out songs. But I understand what you mean. A well written piano piece like Moonlight Sonata or Nuvole Bianche tell a story melodically, and if you try to sing over it in a manner that takes away from the underlying melody and sonic storytelling, it's like drowning a dish in ketchup instead of accentuating the flavor.

The more I can get away from what I feel and let the music take me.. the better, but that's more of a me thing nowadays

QFT though

I'd post what I have for Nuvole Bianche, but, you know, it's CE.

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1. They need to have meter and stuff, like poetry.
2. They don't have to make sense in broad strokes (tons of great songs do not) but individual phrases need to be coherant thoughts.

Naturally, I cannot stand They Might Be Giants.

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Ex-Kefiroth posted...

This is another big one.

It's a turn-off when there are certain parts of a song where too many syllables have been crammed in, and you can tell the music and the lyrics were not crafted with one another in mind.

Agreed with this one as well. I'm writing the lyrics based on the melody, so it fits with the piece. So far I've only got one part where I have an added syllable, and I'll probably fix it later.

Nuvole Bianche:
https://youtu.be/xyY4IZ3JDFE

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FulminatedHydra posted...

Agreed with this one as well. I'm writing the lyrics based on the melody, so it fits with the piece. So far I've only got one part where I have an added syllable, and I'll probably fix it later.

Nuvole Bianche:
https://youtu.be/xyY4IZ3JDFE

Really, I hope you dont mind what I wrote bro - do it in whatever fashion and in which way you feel best describes the song.. I think growing up now I really do appreciate just knowing that that is your take and the way you see things is what creates that bond for me in music

RedJackson posted...

Really, I hope you dont mind what I wrote bro - do it in whatever fashion and in which way you feel best describes the song.. I think growing up now I really do appreciate just knowing that that is your take and the way you see things is what creates that bond for me in music

Well thank you, I really appreciate that! I can agree with your original sentiment though. It's such a strong piece without lyrics that I feel a responsibility not to mess it up with crappy lyrics that take away from the piece. I don't want to ruin it.

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