Current Events > "a 3rd party vote is a vote for trump!"

(+) Yeah! (+)

ThisGuyAreSick posted...

so wait crystal balls are involved now too? they predict the outcome and then put your vote in that candidate's box?

this is all so confusing I didn't realize the american voting system was so complicated

Just watch the fucking video I posted.

ButteryMales posted...

Just watch the fucking video I posted.

just summarize it for me

it's already so confusing but lets see if i get the gist of it

1. third party goes to the incumbant
2. unless the other guy wins, which is determined by a fortune teller
3. and if all else fails 66% of your vote goes to red and 33% goes to blue

is that correct? feel free to dispute that. also who is in charge of determining where my 3rd party vote goes?
---

RoadsterUFO posted...

That is a bipartisan bill! That he fucking signed lol. Quit making excuses to reject giving him credit for any positive thing. What the fuck is Joe Biden promising but lip service? He was the VP to Obama for eight damn years. At minimum they could have at least taken marijuana off of Schedule 1. But Trump! isnt a fucking argument as to why Biden deserves my vote.

It's your vote to throw away. Trump running concentration camps and having civil right riots is not a better criminal justice record.

ThisGuyAreSick posted...

so wait crystal balls are involved now too? they predict the outcome and then put your vote in that candidate's box?

this is all so confusing I didn't realize the american voting system was so complicated

I know you have some math issues, but the post you quoted is literally how the election system works.
It's a two party system, you have two choices: A vote towards the second place, or a vote accepting the winner. Any vote that's not towards second place is a vote that's accepting the winner.

---

ThisGuyAreSick posted...

just summarize it for me

With the way you blather on about it you need an in depth explanation.

If someone held a gun to your head and forced you to vote for one of Biden or Trump, whomever you would pick is the person who "loses a vote" if you don't vote/vote 3rd party. Most people on Current Events fall under demographics that tend to skew democrat, thus the claim that "a 3rd party vote is a vote for Trump!"

Whether you agree with it is a different thing, but that's the argument.

---

ChocoboMog123 posted...

I know you have some math issues, but the post you quoted is literally how the election system works.
It's a two party system, you have two choices: A vote towards the second place, or a vote accepting the winner. Any vote that's not towards second place is a vote that's accepting the winner.

No. I don't accept this. I just can't do anything to stop it. Claiming I gave my stamp of approval to the winner is BS. I gave neither my approval.

Anteaterking posted...

If someone held a gun to your head and forced you to vote for one of Biden or Trump, whomever you would pick is the person who "loses a vote" if you don't vote/vote 3rd party. Most people on Current Events fall under demographics that tend to skew democrat, thus the claim that "a 3rd party vote is a vote for Trump!"

Whether you agree with it is a different thing, but that's the argument.

This. Pretty simple. I imagine most of the confusion here is feigned.

---

but yeah TC watch that video, it clearly lays out and explains whats wrong with First Past the Post/Winner Takes All voting

TiamatNM posted...

No. I don't accept this. I just can't do anything to stop it. Claiming I gave my stamp of approval to the winner is BS. I gave neither my approval.

Doesn't matter if you accept it or not, that's how the US election system works.
Don't support it? Actively support another voting system. Either that or accept that a third party vote is a rubber stamp for the winner, especially for a split vote.

---

TiamatNM posted...

No. I don't accept this. I just can't do anything to stop it. Claiming I gave my stamp of approval to the winner is BS. I gave neither my approval.

That's certainly a stance that you can take, but it's inherently centered around the importance of your private vote as a statement to yourself. If you view voting as something where you want to minimize suffering, then voting third party becomes much less appealing. It CAN still be the right decision from your perspective, but it means you think

(good that comes fro your third party vote)*(1- chance your vote would make Candidate A win over Candidate B) > (difference in good between Candidate A and Candidate B) * (chance your vote would make Candidate A win over Candidate B)

---

ChocoboMog123 posted...

Doesn't matter if you accept it or not, that's how the US election system works.
Don't support it? Actively support another voting system. Either that or accept that a third party vote is a rubber stamp for the winner, especially for a split vote.

Voting biden is also a vote for trump, because you're accepting him if he wins! See I can make up stupid shit too.

TiamatNM posted...

Voting biden is also a vote for trump, because you're accepting him if he wins! See I can make up stupid shit too.

Just watch the damn video.

ButteryMales posted...

Just watch the damn video.

Fuck you

TiamatNM posted...

Voting biden is also a vote for trump, because you're accepting him if he wins! See I can make up stupid shit too.

I addressed this:

ChocoboMog123 posted...

It's a two party system, you have two choices: A vote towards the second place, or a vote accepting the winner. Any vote that's not towards second place is a vote that's accepting the winner.

If you think Biden is a smidge better than Trump, vote Biden. If you think Trump is a smidge better, vote Trump. If you find both so reprehensible that you cannot vote for either, vote third party or don't vote, doesn't matter. You're stuck with the winner, either way. If you think Biden is slightly not-as-terrible as Trump, but you vote third party, you are accepting whoever wins the election (and accepting the incumbent, Trump).

You're angry because it sucks, but that's how it is. Watch the video, it's under 7 minutes and is pretty simple.

---

ChocoboMog123 posted...

I addressed this:

If you think Biden is a smidge better than Trump, vote Biden. If you think Trump is a smidge better, vote Trump. If you find both so reprehensible that you cannot vote for either, vote third party or don't vote, doesn't matter. You're stuck with the winner, either way. If you think Biden is slightly not-as-terrible as Trump, but you vote third party, you are accepting whoever wins the election (and accepting the incumbent, Trump).

You're angry because it sucks, but that's how it is. Watch the video, it's under 7 minutes and is pretty simple.

It's pretty simple that if you don't vote you don't vote. I don't need to watch your stupid video.

TiamatNM posted...

It's pretty simple that if you don't vote you don't vote. I don't need to watch your stupid video.

well if you don't want to easily understand why third party voting in a FPTP voting system is bad.... then why not just leave the topic. obviously you're done with the discussion

MachineJaipur posted...

well if you don't want to easily understand why third party voting in a FPTP voting system is bad.... then why not just leave the topic. obviously you're done with the discussion

voting blue no matter who is bad too because they don't need to represent you in order to win
---

I just abstain if there's nobody worth my vote. Incidentally, I have never voted.
---

A vote is for whoever's name is on the line you pick. If the name isn't Trump then it's not a vote for Trump. There's no arguement to even dispute this. Voting is like the most simple concept ever lol

---

We don't vote for president anyway, the states do.
All our votes do is suggest how those states' electors should vote.

ThisGuyAreSick posted...

voting blue no matter who is bad too because they don't need to represent you in order to win

Yeah but you also got people who vote red not matter what.

Heavy_D_Forever posted...

A vote is for whoever's name is on the line you pick. If the name isn't Trump then it's not a vote for Trump. There's no arguement to even dispute this. Voting is like the most simple concept ever lol

This is being either intentionally obtuse or dangerously misinformed.

Heavy_D_Forever posted...

A vote is for whoever's name is on the line you pick. If the name isn't Trump then it's not a vote for Trump. There's no arguement to even dispute this. Voting is like the most simple concept ever lol

Not voting for Dems benefits Republicans more than vice versa. That's literally what the saying means and it's extremely easy to understand

One_Day_Remains posted...

Not voting for Dems benefits Republicans more than vice versa. That's literally what the saying means and it's extremely easy to understand

What's easy to understand is that a vote is for the candidate you vote for. I'm independent so I couldn't care less about a D or R next to someone's name. I actually care about the candidates policies and beliefs on multiple issues.

---

Heavy_D_Forever posted...

What's easy to understand is that a vote is for the candidate you vote for. I'm independent so I couldn't care less about a D or R next to someones name. I actually care about the candidates policies and beliefs on multiple issues.

What do you view the purpose of your personal vote to be?

---

Anteaterking posted...

What do you view the purpose of your personal vote to be?

my vote isn't a privilege, it's a right. no one is entitled to my vote. if they want my vote, they need to earn it. if my vote was guaranteed, there'd be no point for me to have an opinion.
---

ThisGuyAreSick posted...

my vote isn't a privilege, it's a right. no one is entitled to my vote. if they want my vote, they need to earn it. if my vote was guaranteed, there'd be no point for me to have an opinion.

There is nothing wrong with this, but you must understand the power your vote holds by casting it for a third party or simply not voting.

Many many people think their vote doesn't matter because they don't have a candidate that accurately reflects their beliefs. However you have to be careful if you find someone third party because while they might accurately reflect your views on enough issues to "earn your vote", you may also be helping ensure that the person you most disagree with gets elected.

Nobody is entitled to your vote, yes, but when you're voting third party or not voting ensure you're not unintentionally supporting the guy you least like.

As has been said before in this topic, until the US evolves past the First Past the Post system, nothing will change and you'll never get the person or ideologies that you want in.

Like this election if you lean even remotely center or left, your best bet is a vote for Biden because if Trump gets elected thats pretty much a guaranteed 6/9 or 7/9 conservative Supreme Court split for the next 25-50 years.

Nobody is entitled to your vote, yes, but when you're voting third party or not voting ensure you're not unintentionally supporting the guy least like.

No. The party that isn't paying attention to people like me are unintentionally supporting the guy I least like. It's not my responsibility to put on a suitable candidate. Gaslighting people into thinking they're putting the other person in power is exactly why we get status quo pro white establishment candidates in the first place.

Like this election if you lean even remotely center or left, your best bet is a vote for Biden because if Trump gets elected thats pretty much a guaranteed 6/9 or 7/9 conservative Supreme Court split for the next 25-50 years.

You need to look up Biden's voting/policy history, because his Supreme Court pick is going to be almost just as hard on criminal legislature and just as ass backwards for civil rights.
---

ThisGuyAreSick posted...

No. The party that isn't paying attention to people like me are unintentionally supporting the guy I least like. It's not my responsibility to put on a suitable candidate. Gaslighting people into thinking they're putting the other person in power is exactly why we get status quo pro white establishment candidates in the first place.

It's your responsibility to be active in your party and demand change. However, (i'm not saying you specifically) a lot of people only care about who is President. If you want good candidates, get involved. Otherwise don't complain when the most 'electable' person is chosen.

ThisGuyAreSick posted...

You need to look up Biden's voting/policy history, because his Supreme Court pick is going to be almost just as hard on criminal legislature and just as ass backwards for civil rights.

Even a milquetoast, bland 'centrist' or whoever would be better than whatever hardcore conservative Trump will drag up

The first question to ask yourself is do you live in a swing state. Because if you don't your vote doesn't matter to begin with. So do whatever you want and don't let people give you shit about it. If you do live in a swing state then you need to really think about it.

---

It's your responsibility to be active in your party and demand change. However, (i'm not saying you specifically) a lot of people only care about who is President. If you want good candidates, get involved. Otherwise don't complain when the most 'electable' person is chosen.

Do you want me to become a politician and run myself? There's only so much I can do. I have a life and people I need to take care of of my own. I can't be dedicating times to go out and protest or mass e-mailing local councilmen who have no bearing on the presidential race in the first place. The ultimate power I have is in my vote. I have many people more qualified that can speak for me and I trust them. Stop shaming me for choosing to not vote for the lame duck.
---

MachineJaipur posted...

It's your responsibility to be active in your party and demand change. However, (i'm not saying you specifically) a lot of people only care about who is President. If you want good candidates, get involved. Otherwise don't complain when the most 'electable' person is chosen.

Even a milquetoast, bland 'centrist' or whoever would be better than whatever hardcore conservative Trump will drag up

You forget that the milquetoast, bland "centrist" is what got us here in the first place. I'm talking corrupt police cracking down on minorities who don't belong in prison.
---

ThisGuyAreSick posted...

Stop shaming me for choosing to not vote for the lame duck.

Then if Trump gets elected, don't be mad

ThisGuyAreSick posted...

my vote isn't a privilege, it's a right. no one is entitled to my vote. if they want my vote, they need to earn it. if my vote was guaranteed, there'd be no point for me to have an opinion.

I don't think you answered his question, which is what is the value you see in your vote?

---

MachineJaipur posted...

Then if Trump gets elected, don't be mad

I'm going to be mad if either or get elected. Why aren't you getting this?
---

COVxy posted...

I don't think you answered his question, which is what is the value you see in your vote?

I literally must have explained it 5 or 6 times already in this topic. My vote is leverage for politicians to pay attention to me if they want my vote. This isn't hard.
---

I live in CT, so if me not voting for Biden results in Trump winning the state, then Biden is getting Dukakised anyway LOL my vote is literally never going to matter, and neither is yours.
It's absolutely ridiculous to assert an individuals decision to vast a vote for Biden(or not cast it) is representative of some terrible moral failing on their part. The only way it affects anything is if that happens en masse, and if it happens like that, then you're going to have to find a better explanation for why they all came to the same conclusion Hint: it may actually be the candidate's fault! Weird concept, I know .

To all of you people furiously typing away, trying to shame people into voting for Biden, just stop. It doesn't work. Donate to your precious hairy-legged girl-sniffer, or, even better, go out and knock doors and talk about all the great things Biden will do in office to people who haven't already made up their minds.

ThisGuyAreSick posted...

I literally must have explained it 5 or 6 times already in this topic. My vote is leverage for politicians to pay attention to me if they want my vote. This isn't hard.

I mean, he wasn't even asking you but you chose to respond to his post without answering his question.

---

COVxy posted...

I mean, he wasn't even asking you but you chose to respond to his post without answering his question.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/78740633/940100960

???????????
---

ThisGuyAreSick posted...

I'm going to be mad if either or get elected. Why aren't you getting this?

Well at least you know you're gonna be mad in November lol.

If I knew I was gonna be mad either way, I'd just vote for who is going to make me least mad than run the chance of the guy who is going to make me most mad getting elected. But that's just me

MachineJaipur posted...

Well at least you know you're gonna be mad in November lol.

If I knew I was gonna be mad either way, I'd just vote for who is going to make me least mad than run the chance of the guy who is going to make me most mad getting elected. But that's just me

I look at it this way.

Poor being screwed makes me mad.
Workers getting screwed makes me mad.
Minorities get screwed and general racism gets me mad.
Corrupt police and shitty criminal justice makes me mad.

All of these are going to continue to happen under both candidates, therefore I'm going to be mad equally. Or better yet, a candidate that would be AGAINST this won't be elected in November, which it doesn't matter which candidate it is because the result is still the same.

When you do "but hes worse" in comparison to something that is already bad, you're attempting to shame and gaslight someone into voting for somebody that is already bad. It needs to stop.
---