Current Events > Seems like all the atheists I have met are actually varying levels of agnostic

(+) Yeah! (+)

boxington posted...

I skimmed through the topic, but: (a)theism has to do with belief and (a)gnosticism has to do with knowledge, and most atheists are agnostic atheists.

that just means that they believe in no higher power, but make no claims of knowing one(s) do not exist.

a gnostic atheist would be like, "I don't believe in any higher power, because I know one doesn't exist."

This makes god sound like a car

---

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

I live in a very religious community, so Im sure its different for other people. Basically almost every activity, even government-related, is given a firm religious spin of some kind. All your friends, family and strangers consider this normal and even correct. You cant really escape it, and youd better not step out of line or ask too many questions. Im only grateful that I cant be jailed or physically attacked for not conforming, so I know it isnt as bad as some other places.

Are you mormon or something?

What about your pursuit of truth? What avenues did being atheist open up for you? What truth?

Basically why I said 51 is because God for me is just the best of all possible worlds. Higher powers are just what get you there in the best way, I guess. So if I want world peace I would be a diplomat. Highest power is not possible, for world peace, in this example..

---

Keith_Valentine posted...

I reference most of the European countries that were founded by religious people of one sort or another. Made great and now as people stop believing, most of their populations are dying out because of birth control, abortion, less marriage and traditional families. I dont need a crystal ball, its happening right now. Europes native population is slowly dying out as it fails to reproduce. The fastest growth in the world is in third world countries and lots of them are more religious. Look at the middle east and parts of Africa, for example, or the way latinos are rapidly growing in size in the US. Those people are more likely to practice traditional religion. I dont think populations are growing anywhere that atheism is prominent, except maybe China. Thats the way it is, regardless of what I think.

Third world countries in general have a higher growth rate when it comes to babies because most of them don't have the education to make more well informed life choices. Every first world country is facing lower growth rates is mostly due to socio-economic reasons. While religion does play a part, but not on a huge scale like you put it.

Keith_Valentine posted...

Youve already had thousands of years of human existence, its like hundreds to zero at this point. Atheism doesnt inspire people or uplift the soul like God does. People say atheism is enlightenment, but wherever it spreads depression follows imo. Theres nothing beautiful about it, you get a short life and then you are dead forever. If thats the truth, ignorance is bliss imo. You could argue there are some good things about it. You could, i wouldnt. But depression has exploded in first world countries as religion gets stomped out. You probably think thats a phase or some social thing, but I think its because people feel an emptiness in their soul where God is supposed to be. Religion aside, believing in a God is a nice feeling. Average humans feel safer believing in something greater than themselves, thats why it worked over and over in history. Atheism hasnt proven itself on any level. What good has atheism done? You tell me, i would listen to your response.

So literally, muh feelings is why God exists.

---

Prestoff posted...

Third world countries in general have a higher growth rate when it comes to babies because most of them don't have the education to make more well informed life choices. Every first world country is facing lower growth rates is mostly due to socio-economic reasons. While religion does play a part, but not on a huge scale like you put it.

So literally, muh feelings is why God exists.

What do you think faith is genius

---

I can't be sure of anything outside of some basic mathematical concepts, but it's redundant to word things like that.

If they found proof about whether or not gods exist and were taking bets, I would bet as much as I possibly could that there isn't.

---

ledbowman posted...

What do you think faith is genius

I just wanted Keith to be honest since he's the "facts over feelings" kind of conservative.

---

Keith_Valentine posted...

If thats the truth, ignorance is bliss imo.

Not very facts over feelings.

---

(A)theism and Gnosticism are two separate categories. Being agnostic is not an in between or a not quite an atheist view. There are only 4 possibilities and nothing in between.

When asked Do you believe a god or gods exist?
If you say I believe in a god or gods you are an agnostic theist

If you respond I know a god or gods exist you are a gnostic theist

If your response is I know that gods do not exist you are gnostic atheist

Any other answer including I do not believe in god or gods God or gods probably dont exist or Im not sure if god or gods exist then you are an agnostic atheist.

Agnostic is not some in between or undecided.

Anything other than actively believing or knowing that a god or gods exist is atheism.

---

^used gnostic theist twice there bud

---

Evening_Dragon posted...

^used gnostic theist twice there bud

Thanks, autocorrect mistake. Also edited for easier readability

---

Keith_Valentine posted...

I reference most of the European countries that were founded by religious people of one sort or another. Made great and now as people stop believing, most of their populations are dying out because of birth control, abortion, less marriage and traditional families. I dont need a crystal ball, its happening right now. Europes native population is slowly dying out as it fails to reproduce. The fastest growth in the world is in third world countries and lots of them are more religious. Look at the middle east and parts of Africa, for example, or the way latinos are rapidly growing in size in the US. Those people are more likely to practice traditional religion. I dont think populations are growing anywhere that atheism is prominent, except maybe China. Thats the way it is, regardless of what I think.

Youve already had thousands of years of human existence, its like hundreds to zero at this point. Atheism doesnt inspire people or uplift the soul like God does. People say atheism is enlightenment, but wherever it spreads depression follows imo. Theres nothing beautiful about it, you get a short life and then you are dead forever. If thats the truth, ignorance is bliss imo. You could argue there are some good things about it. You could, i wouldnt. But depression has exploded in first world countries as religion gets stomped out. You probably think thats a phase or some social thing, but I think its because people feel an emptiness in their soul where God is supposed to be. Religion aside, believing in a God is a nice feeling. Average humans feel safer believing in something greater than themselves, thats why it worked over and over in history. Atheism hasnt proven itself on any level. What good has atheism done? You tell me, i would listen to your response.

I didn't want to get involved in a religious discussion but I guess I can't help myself lol. I was raised religious and it never did anything for me. I haven't seen anything that would suggest that God exists. Once I realized that I didn't really believe in him I felt happier because it opened up a lot more possibilities for me. The church forces so many nonsensical rules on you and its prevented me from experiencing so many things.

I think atheism is much more "uplifting" than Christianity. I don't want to offend you, but it seems to me that a long of Christians cling to religion out of fear. They're too scared to cope with the things life throws at them on their own so they convince themselves that everything is part of god's plan. It doesn't seem noble to me to live your life closing yourself off to so many things that the world has to offer because you're afraid of what'll happen if you don't. I don't think there's some grand design or hidden meaning behind life. We live and then we die. That's not depressing. That frees me to live exactly how I want to live. I need to make the most of my time on Earth because once its over, its over. I find that much more uplifting than pretending to be someone I'm not to please a being who probably doesn't exist or to keep my parents happy.

God allegedly knows everything that has happened and will happened. So if he exists then he knows who will end up in heaven and in hell before they're even born. If that's the case, then why did he even bother to create people that he knows he's going to send to hell. Based on that information, free will doesn't exist and he's dooming people for eternity for no reason whatsoever. What about that is inspiring or uplifting?

I don't get your point about population growth. The world is already overpopulated so why would you want that to move along at a faster rate?

Sorry for the rant. I think everyone should believe what they want as long as it makes them happy

---

I think people try to assess their faith too much based on logic and the letter of the book. It's so much simpler than that. When you look at the beauty of the world do you sense god. Do you sense design. When your with the woman who feels like a gift do you sense god. Are you thankful. Are you stronger

---

ledbowman posted...

I think people try to assess their faith too much based on logic and the letter of the book. It's so much simpler than that. When you look at the beauty of the world do you sense god. Do you sense design. When your with the woman who feels like a gift do you sense god. Are you thankful. Are you stronger

Nope. Never felt that

---

ledbowman posted...

I think people try to assess their faith too much based on logic and the letter of the book. It's so much simpler than that. When you look at the beauty of the world do you sense god. Do you sense design. When your with the woman who feels like a gift do you sense god. Are you thankful. Are you stronger

Nope. And this reads like some really pretentious bullshit.

---

Religion is the only area in life where faith is seen as a virtue or a good thing (and that's not a coincidence lol). You'd be considered naive at best or an idiot at worst if you were to apply the same faith based "logic" to any other aspect of life.

---

Rikiaz posted...

Nope. And this reads like some really pretentious bullshit.

I'm sure you think so dungeonmaster

---

ledbowman posted...

I'm sure you think so dungeonmaster

Lol dungeonmaster? What is that supposed to mean

---

ledbowman posted...

I think people try to assess their faith too much based on logic and the letter of the book. It's so much simpler than that. When you look at the beauty of the world do you sense god. Do you sense design. When your with the woman who feels like a gift do you sense god. Are you thankful. Are you stronger

This is literally "my feelings count in place of facts"

But they don't. They do not.

---

Evening_Dragon posted...

This is literally "my feelings count in place of facts"

But they don't. They do not.

Yes these are my feelings. How astute

---

ledbowman posted...

Yes these are my feelings. How astute

Right, and they don't count for anything to anyone else, in an objective sense. You understand this much already, I take it?

---

Evening_Dragon posted...

Right, and they don't count for anything to anyone else, in an objective sense. You understand this much already, I take it?

No since all i'm saying is the obvious that it's more of an inner spiritual thing that you either feel or don't. There's not much objective about it. It's a pretty easy concept and i think everybody else gets it

---

Zano posted...

Religion is the only area in life where faith is seen as a virtue or a good thing (and that's not a coincidence lol). You'd be considered naive at best or an idiot at worst if you were to apply the same faith based "logic" to any other aspect of life.

This is exactly why I don't believe. I don't put pure faith into anything, so I certainly am not going to do it for something completely void of evidence. Every religion claims to be correct, yet not a single one can offer an concrete, evidence-based argument.


---

I remember when I was a freshman/sophmore in college and was thinking, whoo-hoo, I am going to point out how blindly people follow religion. But as I have gotten older, it grew on me. I pray every day now.

---

Is my worldview really that bad, lol

---

ledbowman posted...

No since all i'm saying is the obvious that it's more of an inner spiritual thing that you either feel or don't. There's not much objective about it. It's a pretty easy concept and i think everybody else gets it

The thing is that your concept doesn't make any sense.

You're arguing that something is real based on how you feel.

Say Bobby says what you believe in is fake, based on how he feels. Which one of you is wrong, and why?

---

You can't know god doesn't exist. The only way to know god doesn't exist is by being an omniscient being yourself.

Any Atheist who claims there is no god is is an idiot.

Blue_School posted...

You can't know god doesn't exist. The only way to know god doesn't exist is by being an omniscient being yourself.

Any Atheist who claims there is no god is is an idiot.

This. To firmly assert that god(s) aren't real requires just as much faith as asserting that they are real. There's no way for us to know for sure one way or the other.

The argument is so stale. Play the odds.

---

Evening_Dragon posted...

The argument is so stale. Play the odds.

I'll wager any decent god doesn't give a fuck if we worship him or not. I'll live my life as I see fit.

What does "God" even mean? A being with seemingly omnipotent powers, knowledge, etc.? Who's to say it's some alien just pretending to be "God" for it's own inscrutable purposes? How could you ever prove something like that? There could just as easily be a being out there that would make this supposed God look like an ant by comparison. Are human beings not godlike beings to ants?

Is there some kind of "being" that created everything? Maybe. I have no idea. But neither does anyone else. Anyone claiming to have divine knowledge is either misguided, ignorant or actively malicious.

---

Evening_Dragon posted...

You're arguing that something is real based on how you feel.

No shit dude. What do you think this is all about. This isn't science. There's no way to prove it. It's about belief

---

leonzill posted...

This. To firmly assert that god(s) aren't real requires just as much faith as asserting that they are real. There's no way for us to know for sure one way or the other.

While that is true, its also why some of us non-believers get annoyed when we are getting preached at. We could use that argument to claim that leprechauns and Godzilla also exist... somewhere.

---

Blue_School posted...

You can't know god doesn't exist. The only way to know god doesn't exist is by being an omniscient being yourself.

Any Atheist who claims there is no god is is an idiot.

Not really.

You have no actual proof for the existence of a god other than your feelings. And while you are free to feel however you wish, we don't give attention to I feel in any aspects of science and evidence, so why should we here?

If someone said "I feel the earth is flat" we laugh at them, and rightly so. And why should the Abrahamic god be the "right one" and not one of the many other religions?

---

ledbowman posted...

No shit dude. What do you think this is all about. This isn't science. There's no way to prove it. It's about belief

Yes, that's been established, which is why I asked those new questions.

Say Bobby says what you believe in is fake, based on how he feels. Which one of you is wrong, and why?

---

Evening_Dragon posted...

Yes, that's been established, which is why I asked those new questions.

Neither is "wrong." It's unknowable. It's personal. Get it yet

---

ledbowman posted...

Neither is "wrong." It's unknowable. It's personal. Get it yet

If you were arguing for a personal spirituality, it would be one thing, but you described external factors of design and god.

When you look at the beauty of the world do you sense god. Do you sense design. When your with the woman who feels like a gift do you sense god. Are you thankful. Are you stronger

---

I didn't say "do you see proof of design you that you can show to everybody"

---

leonzill posted...

This. To firmly assert that god(s) aren't real requires just as much faith as asserting that they are real. There's no way for us to know for sure one way or the other.

While what you say is technically true, most atheists I know simply just reject the claim that god(s) exists because theists claims for god(s) to exist is on a faulty premise. You can't claim something to be 100% true on something that can't be falsified because there's no evidence of it existing. I mean you can, but that would just be stupid imo.

---

"Not believing in Santa Claus requires as much faith as believing in him"

"Not believing in flat earth requires as much faith as believing in it"

---