Current Events > Seems like all the atheists I have met are actually varying levels of agnostic

(+) Yeah! (+)

I don't think I have met any absolute atheists.

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what is an absolute atheist

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I don't think I'm an agnostic just because I believe literally anything can do turn out to be true. I don't believe in God and in know way act as if God might be real, but if he was proven to be real, then belief would be unnecessary. You either believe right now or you don't. Agnostic seems like a unnecessary term. I don't even like how atheist and religious are considered two sides of the same coin.

I believe in nothing until it is true. Does that mean I'm agnostic about unicorns and the multiverse? Must I be labeled aunicornist?

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sutree posted...

what is an absolute atheist

Someone who firmly believes in nothing. They "know" there is no God. Most people aren't sure

hockeybub89 posted...

You either believe right now or you don't. Agnostic seems like a unnecessary term.

Exactly. If you don't believe in god(s) you are an atheist. That's the definition of the word. I think people like to say they're agnostic so they don't seem too "extreme."

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MorbidFaithless posted...

I think people like to say they're agnostic so they don't seem too "extreme".

I say I'm agnostic because atheism is only slightly less irrational than the cosmology it claims to counter.

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Generally, people who identify as agnostic would say they just don't care, whereas self identified atheists tend to be anti religion.

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vigorm0rtis posted...

I say I'm agnostic because atheism is only slightly less irrational than the cosmology it claims to counter.

People actually believe this.

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vigorm0rtis posted...

I say I'm agnostic because atheism is only slightly less irrational than the cosmology it claims to counter.

Atheism counters nothing. It claims nothing. It offers no explanation.

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Zikten posted...

Someone who firmly believes in nothing. They "know" there is no God. Most people aren't sure

I don't think most people aren't sure. I have never met these "Well it could go either way" agnostics. The absence of absolute statements does not necessarily mean someone is on the fence. Are all scientists secretly conflicted on the existence of the supernatural just because they refuse to say anything is impossible?

The idea that theoretically anything could happen does not mean you actively think or behave as if everything is true. Physics could one day be turned on its head. Doesn't mean we should start throwing ourselves off buildings because maybe today's the day we don't hit the ground

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MorbidFaithless posted...

Atheism counters nothing. It claims nothing. It offers no explanation.

Uh-huh.
ChainedRedone posted...

People actually believe this.

People who can tell the difference between logic and rhetoric do.

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MorbidFaithless posted...

Atheism counters nothing. It claims nothing.

I'm not sure what you mean by "atheism claims nothing". Doesn't it claim that deities don't exist?

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Then consider me one you now know.

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I'm an atheist
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vigorm0rtis posted...

I say I'm agnostic because atheism is only slightly less irrational than the cosmology it claims to counter.

I can't see God and no one can observe him with the senses, so he effectively does not exist. If I am too be rational, then must assume he does not exist until some possible future where that changes.

Why should the monotheistic God be given special treatment that we don't give to other deities, supernatural beings, and literally anything that doesn't currently show to exist? Why I edgy for only focusing on what is currently within human comprehension. Imagine how impossible it would be to do anything if we had to consider everything that could ever possibly exist in any universe all the time.

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GATTJT posted...

I'm not sure what you mean by "atheism claims nothing". Doesn't it claim that deities don't exist?

Is not believing in a conspiracy theory or pseudoscience a direct reaction and counter to it? Claiming nothing is not the opposite of making an unprovable claim.

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GATTJT posted...

I'm not sure what you mean by "atheism claims nothing". Doesn't it claim that deities don't exist?

No. Atheism isn't a claim, it's a denial of unfounded claims. It's not saying there are no gods; it's saying arguments for the existence of gods are flawed, and thus they should not be accepted.

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GATTJT posted...

I'm not sure what you mean by "atheism claims nothing". Doesn't it claim that deities don't exist?

Not necessarily. Some people might call it "agnostic atheism," but atheism is essentially just the lack of belief in a divine being. Imagine a baby just being born with no concept of any god, that baby is an atheist.
Atheism encompasses a wide range of beliefs and non-beliefs, it's just a word.

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Most atheists are annoying, but so are super religious people.

In the end, religious people have created great societies, atheists havent. Atheists will inherit formerly religious societies and then most of them will collapse.

Has there ever been a great country founded by atheists? I doubt it.

EmbraceOfDeath posted...

No. Atheism isn't a claim, it's a denial of unfounded claims. It's not saying there are no gods; it's saying arguments for the existence of gods are flawed, and thus they should not be accepted.

Got it.

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hockeybub89 posted...

I can't see God and no one can observe him with the senses, so he effectively does not exist. If I am too be rational, then must assume he does not exist until some possible future where that changes.

Why should the monotheistic God be given special treatment that we don't give to other deities, supernatural beings, and literally anything that doesn't currently show to exist? Why I edgy for only focusing on what is currently within human comprehension. Imagine how impossible it would be to do anything if we had to consider everything that could ever possibly exist in any universe all the time.

Are there things which exist beyond human empiricism?
I would also be hard pressed to say that the greater power would abandon those who were beyond outside a certain area (a Buddhist who lives admirably wouldn't achieve salvation based on the fact they were born in a Buddhist country.)

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I'm going to need an explanation on the difference between "believes god does not exist" and "doesn't believe god exists". In my experience,the differences between atheism and agnosticism are primarily semantics.

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sutree posted...

what is an absolute atheist

Satanist

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To me it's undeniable that god exists. I feel it in beauty and love

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vigorm0rtis posted...

People who can tell the difference between logic and rhetoric do.

I cut myself on that edge.
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"Sees inefficient evidence for belief or disbelief" implies that when someone makes an unsubstantiated claim, that both they and the non-believers have an obligation to argue for their side.

One person is making a claim, so that person needs to prove their claim. No one else has that obligation and they are not being illogical for acting as if reptilians do not exist until someone actually provides some good science that they might.

No one has to prove something doesn't exist. If no one can prove something, than it essentially does not exist. If it one day is proven to exist, then no one would be able to disprove it. There is no need for a wishy-washy middle ground.

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coolcono posted...

Are there things which exist beyond human empiricism?
I would also be hard pressed to say that the greater power would abandon those who were beyond outside a certain area (a Buddhist who lives admirably wouldn't achieve salvation based on the fact they were born in a Buddhist country.)

If there are, then they effectively do not exist. What would be the point in believing in something incomprehensible to the human mind? Either we can know god or we cannot. There is too much we can learn in our reality to worry about the unimaginable. God should be considered no more real than Santa Claus. We don't need to call people agnostic and demand that scientists go to the North Pole if they want to disprove the claims.

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hockeybub89 posted...

If there are, then they effectively do not exist. What would be the point in believing in something incomprehensible to the human mind? Either we can know god or we cannot. There is too much we can learn in our reality to worry about the unimaginable. God should be considered no more real than Santa Claus. We don't need to call people agnostic and demand that scientists go to the North Pole if they want to disprove the claims. The scientific method is not to make a claim without a shred of evidence in your hypothesis and demand people prove you wrong.

And you can't be hard pressed to think anything about a greater power because you haven't met it. You don't know what it wants, if it exists. If our stance on a god's existence needs to default to agnosticism, then its motives also must be ambiguous. It's also weird how agnosticism seems to be biased towards contemporary religions. No one gets huffy when you call Ancient Greek religion "mythology" or some offbeat claim "bunk".

How would you define a moral compass? Why does it exist? Do any animals demonstrate anything similar?


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If there are, then they effectively do not exist.
But even a hardnosed atheist such as yourself needs to concur that they might.

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Keith_Valentine posted...

In the end, religious people have created great societies, atheists havent. Atheists will inherit formerly religious societies and then most of them will collapse.

Nice crystal ball you have there.

Has there ever been a great country founded by atheists? I doubt it.

Give it time.

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My god is mother nature and the universe
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I skimmed through the topic, but: (a)theism has to do with belief and (a)gnosticism has to do with knowledge, and most atheists are agnostic atheists.

that just means that they believe in no higher power, but make no claims of knowing one(s) do not exist.

a gnostic atheist would be like, "I don't believe in any higher power, because I know one doesn't exist."

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JACKBUTTMOMMY posted...

It claims nothing?? Then how does it exist? Why would someone be something that claims nothing?

Atheism is just a natural state of being. It claims nothing because there is nothing to claim; it just is. The reason people can be "atheists" is because theism came into being and there became a need to distinguish people who weren't theists from theists. If theism had never been created, then we wouldn't have the concept of atheists because everyone would be an atheist.

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I don't believe in any of the current or former deitys but I there there could be some sort of creator that is indifferent to us. Or there's just nothing which is equally plausible to me

So what am i

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Atheism is just an answer to one question, do you believe that god/gods exist? That's literally it. Even if you say, "I don't know" you are most definately leaning more on one side than the other. Can you believe in something that is unfalsifiable, something that can't be proven false because of a lack of evidence? Which is why most atheists are agnostic atheists for that reason.

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coolcono posted...

How would you define a moral compass? Why does it exist? Do any animals demonstrate anything similar?

Out of curiosity, what does a moral compass have to do with atheism?

You could be an atheist without any moral compass at all. You could also be an atheist who established their own set of values and principles to live by, and it doesnt necessarily have to abide by societys laws or what some old book has written in it.

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Smackems posted...

I don't believe in any of the current or former deitys but I there there could be some sort of creator that is indifferent to us. Or there's just nothing which is equally plausible to me

So what am i

Agnostic.

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Lorenzo_2003 posted...

Out of curiosity, what does a moral compass have to do with atheism?

You could be an atheist without any moral compass at all. You could also be an atheist who established their own set of values and principles to live by, and it doesnt necessarily have to abide by societys laws or what some old book has written in it.

I think everybody possesses a moral compass. Give examples of someone without one?

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Smackems posted...

I don't believe in any of the current or former deitys but I there there could be some sort of creator that is indifferent to us. Or there's just nothing which is equally plausible to me

So what am i

Atheist

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Solar_Crimson posted...

Nice crystal ball you have there.

I reference most of the European countries that were founded by religious people of one sort or another. Made great and now as people stop believing, most of their populations are dying out because of birth control, abortion, less marriage and traditional families. I dont need a crystal ball, its happening right now. Europes native population is slowly dying out as it fails to reproduce. The fastest growth in the world is in third world countries and lots of them are more religious. Look at the middle east and parts of Africa, for example, or the way latinos are rapidly growing in size in the US. Those people are more likely to practice traditional religion. I dont think populations are growing anywhere that atheism is prominent, except maybe China. Thats the way it is, regardless of what I think.

Give it time.

Youve already had thousands of years of human existence, its like hundreds to zero at this point. Atheism doesnt inspire people or uplift the soul like God does. People say atheism is enlightenment, but wherever it spreads depression follows imo. Theres nothing beautiful about it, you get a short life and then you are dead forever. If thats the truth, ignorance is bliss imo. You could argue there are some good things about it. You could, i wouldnt. But depression has exploded in first world countries as religion gets stomped out. You probably think thats a phase or some social thing, but I think its because people feel an emptiness in their soul where God is supposed to be. Religion aside, believing in a God is a nice feeling. Average humans feel safer believing in something greater than themselves, thats why it worked over and over in history. Atheism hasnt proven itself on any level. What good has atheism done? You tell me, i would listen to your response.

Keith_Valentine posted...

Religion aside, believing in a God is a nice feeling. Average humans feel safer believing in something greater than themselves, thats why it worked over and over in history. Atheism hasnt proven itself on any level. What good has atheism done? You tell me, i would listen to your response.

For some, it is true that religion fulfills their life. I have a friend who said she needs God to be true because it gives purpose and meaning to her life. She wasnt satisfied with my questions that implied she could get that without a deity. There are also people I know, who have had some real tragedies happen to them, but their faith seemed to keep them from losing their minds. I wouldnt want to take that away from them.

Personally, atheism has helped me search for truth without the worries of breaking a religious tradition or offending a jealous god. I can just live my life as I see fit and try to be open to new things. This isnt unique. There are a lot of people who dont fit into most religions constraints, like gay people or really anyone who doesnt want to revolve their existence around worship.

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Lorenzo_2003 posted...

For some, it is true that religion fulfills their life. I have a friend who said she needs God to be true because it gives purpose and meaning to her life. She wasnt satisfied with my questions that implied she could get that without a deity. There are also people I know, who have had some real tragedies happen to them, but their faith seemed to keep them from losing their minds. I wouldnt want to take that away from them.

Personally, atheism has helped me search for truth without the worries of breaking a religious tradition or offending a jealous god. I can just live my life as I see fit and try to be open to new things. This isnt unique. There are a lot of people who dont fit into most religions constraints, like gay people or really anyone who doesnt want to revolve their existence around worship.

Yea ftr i resent atheists that see it as their duty to 'release' believers from their superstitious, archaic nonsense. As they see it. Take away something, replace it with nothing. That isnt equal. At least a proselytizing Christian thinks they are saving your soul, from a Christian perspective atheists are pushing you away from God. Which is horrible when you think about it.

What have you found in your search for truth? What truth would that be? You dont have to revolve your existence around religious worship at all, that would be a personal choice. You can easily live your life your way and try new things while believing in God, tbh im not sure what youre talking about.

Alienating gay people was a mistake, but thats because the Bible and other religious texts are written by man. Even if theyre supposedly divinely inspired, it came from man. Religious leaders had a council to decide what books to put in the Bible for example. It was more like a format to build a robust society and now those old restrictions are unfortunate. American Christianity for example has opened up more and more towards gay people which is how it should be. Where theres love, there is God. Im not referring to promiscuous sex ftr, i mean actual love. All powerful God doesnt care what hole you prefer, they want us to love each other.

Having seen the atheism subreddit, I think there is still value in differentiating between agnostics and atheists.

Though that subreddit goes beyond even what most people consider atheism. Buncha wackadoos >_>

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Keith_Valentine posted...

You dont have to revolve your existence around religious worship at all, that would be a personal choice. You can easily live your life your way and try new things while believing in God, tbh im not sure what youre talking about.

I live in a very religious community, so Im sure its different for other people. Basically almost every activity, even government-related, is given a firm religious spin of some kind. All your friends, family and strangers consider this normal and even correct. You cant really escape it, and youd better not step out of line or ask too many questions. Im only grateful that I cant be jailed or physically attacked for not conforming, so I know it isnt as bad as some other places.

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