Current Events > Who's better: Jordan or LeBron?

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http://a.msn.com/02/en-us/BB14fpQ3?ocid=scu2

"Michael Jordan or LeBron James? NBA fans have spoken, and the answer is not close

In a recent poll conducted by ESPN, 73 percent of hoops fans polled think Michael Jordan is a better overall player than LeBron James. The question of who is better is one among 17 questions posed in the poll.

Per ESPN, 600 respondants were split evenly into two age groups: 18 to 34 and 35 and older. Somewhat surprisingly, Jordan was the leader in the younger group, taking home results by a near 2-to-1 margin.

Other questions asked who has the better sneaker, who was more clutch and who would win in a game of one-on-one.

Here are the complete poll results from ESPN:"...

http://a.msn.com/02/en-us/BB14fpQ3?ocid=scu2

Cocytus posted...

Somewhat surprisingly, Jordan was the leader in the younger group, taking home results by a near 2-to-1 margin.

There's nothing surprising about this, most younger people have only seen the highlights and storybook presentation of Jordan's career. They didn't see Jordan's shortcomings in real time (or at all since most act like it never happened) like they have with LeBron.

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The answer is always going to be Jordan.

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Jordan did more with less.

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Even asking this question makes me angry. There's no contest.

Evening_Dragon posted...

The answer is always going to be Jordan.

That's what I figured.

SauI_Goodman posted...

Jordan did more with less.

This is completely false lmao

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Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time. He's also the most overrated basketball player of all time. Yes he can be and is both.

Lebron sits firmly at number 2 all time. Nothing wrong with that. Not at all.

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Jordan was going to win this poll regardless, but there is also recency bias with the new documentary that's fresh in peoples' minds

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most of you think the level of play is higher in today's nba compared to jordan's era?

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It's still Jordan, but I think Lebron is closer behind him at #2 than people give him credit for.
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I think they are both overrated and part of the marketing era of basketball. There is more spacing now where the game is designed to get out of lebron's way. He'd get eaten alive in the 80's. He's not that skiled. Even Jordan had to wait until Bird and Magic retired.

I've always thought this way and it's a team game. Jordan is a great individual player but as far as basketball is concerned there are other aspects of the game that are overlooked today. He was selfish. What MAgic Johnson could do with his size and passing and change the entire way his team played is more lethal than anything Jordan did on a basketball court. He took his team to the finals 9 times going against some of the greatest teams of all time. Those Laker teams would destroy Jordan and so would MAgic in his prime.

Bill Russell also has an argument as far as the lasting culture he created with the celtics going against Wilt Chamberlain to this day although it's dying at this point. Jordan can't say that with the Bulls.

Jordan is better than Lebron. The 80's were really the height of actual basketball as far as talent and as an actual sport. Individual talent has gone up in ways but it also hasn't. AS far as the actual GOAT discussion you have to understand you are dealing with millennials and people who really weren't that bright to begin with passing on these judgements.

Jordan was a jerk. So was Kobe. So is Lebron. So are a lot of players now. The game has changed so much it's better in ways but also worse. Good individual players. Each trying to get theirs. I get why they did it but even still.

IMNOTRAGED posted...

This is completely false lmao

son i highly recommend you go back and watch 90's basketball. 6 titles is more than 4. 6/6 = 1.000 compared to lebrons' 4/9. Plus jordan had 6 finals mvp. you have access to youtube obviously so git.

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Jordan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>lecancer

GallisOTK posted...

It's still Jordan, but I think Lebron is closer behind him at #2 than people give him credit for.

Lebron is obviously a great player but the fact is he's had more help and done less. When it's all said and done lebron will be a top 5 player but will not have the accolades of jordan.

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SauI_Goodman posted...

Lebron is obviously a great player but the fact is he's had more help

He had zero help his first stint with the Cavs unless you're counting Mo Williams and Larry Hughes

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Bill Russell is greater than both of them. He has more rings and so do the Celtics. He accomplished more as an individual and as a team player to this day. Lebron as an individual really has not accomplished as much. He came into a sport where these players were alraedy being paid a ton and made more money. So what. It's all relative really as time has gone on. Have players actually gotten better? Yes and no. I still say Lebron would get his rear end handed to him back then.

He's deemed the greatest because he's supposedly accomplished the most and gotten the most hype on a huge scale. That's about it. Most of that was handed to him.

Jordan is the all time goat no one cares about bill russell

SauI_Goodman posted...

son i highly recommend you go back and watch 90's basketball.

I've watched plenty, 80's too.

Fact of the matter is at the same point in Jordan's career when they had built a championship caliber team around him, LeBron was playing with Mo Williams and Anderson Varejao.

If counting accolades is all you care about that's all fine and good, but this idea that Jordan's surrounding casts weren't loaded is complete bs.


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SauI_Goodman posted...

son i highly recommend you go back and watch 90's basketball. 6 titles is more than 4. 6/6 = 1.000 compared to lebrons' 4/9. Plus jordan had 6 finals mvp. you have access to youtube obviously so git.

LeBron has 3 titles, not 4

Jordan, and I hated him

#gonygonygo

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Mount Rushmore for me is

1. MAgic
2. Russell
3. Bird
4. Jordan
5. Chamberlain

Probably in that order. I can understand the Jordan argument. Top 10 is Magic, Russell, Bird, Jordan, Chamberlain, Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Kareem. I honestly don't know where to put Kareem. Oscar Robinson deserves to be in there. Then you have your Curry's, Durants, Olajuwans and Jerry West etc..Giannis probably is top 20 out of players playing now. Harden and Westbrook aren't. Kevin Garnett is. Dirk is. They are ball hogs and haven't won for a reason. Probably more in line with the Barkley's, Ewings, Iverson's, Malones and Jason Kidd's of the world.

Lebron really has to win more to surpass Bird even still. He's on that level at this point. They are pretty equal and better and worse in different ways. I could flip flop Bird and Jordan. I think Bird's competition was stiffer. Lebron's really wasn't. And Jordan ate crow all those years.

SauI_Goodman posted...

Lebron is obviously a great player but the fact is he's had more help and done less.

I disagree with the "more help" part. I think Pippen/Rodman is a better supporting cast than either Wade/Bosh or Love/Irving ever were. Plus, Lebron carried a team of total bums to the NBA Finals in his first stint with the Cavs (their second best player was Zydrunas Il-fucking-gauskas for Christ's sake) while Jordan never made a Finals until Pippen got there to help him.
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Lebron was from Cleveland so who you can really blame. Jordan had Chicago by the nut all those years. LA and Boston. Are the warriors today better than the Lakers? I don't think so as far as actual basketball. It's different. They had to go against different competition. Are these two guys really the 2 single greatest players individual ever because of this? I think it's a lot of hype personally. Stats and everything how they were able to get those numbers and everything. I get it though. Jordan is the greatest ever blah, blah. He looks like it. He did all those things. Blah,blah.

Jordan was dominant in 80s-90s NBA

He would have been Gretzky-like with today's rules.
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kg88222 posted...

Lebron was from Cleveland so who you can really blame. Jordan had Chicago by the nut all those years. LA and Boston. Are the warriors today better than the Lakers? I don't think so as far as actual basketball. It's different. They had to go against different competition. Are these two guys really the 2 single greatest players individual ever because of this?

Yes. They are.

And anyone who ever saw jordan in clutch mode knows damn well just how incredible he was. Almost no one in any sport could single handedly take over a game like mj.

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Jordan. He is 6 of 13 in playoffs, while Lebron is 3 of 13.

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Member that time Michael Jordan had a hitler stache

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Damn_Underscore posted...

Jordan was dominant in 80s-90s NBA

He would have been Gretzky-like with today's rules.

So true. You look at the final score of all those playoff games in those days and it was always in the 80s or 70s. Like scores of 83-79, 77 -74, etc. And Jordan would still have like 35-40 points. Now every game ends with a score of like 117-113.

SauI_Goodman posted...

Jordan did more with less.

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Boombam99 posted...

Even asking this question makes me angry. There's no contest.

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55-27 was the Bulls record the first year after MJ retired, the Cavs went 19-63 when LeBron went to Miami

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Crayon_Lover posted...

55-27 was the Bulls record the first year after MJ retired, the Cavs went 19-63 when LeBron went to Miami

The Bulls had a system, Phil and the triangle. The Cavs had LeBronball, not conducive to winning once the central piece leaves.

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kg88222 posted...

There is more spacing now where the game is designed to get out of lebron's way. He'd get eaten alive in the 80's. He's not that skiled.

Just gonna point out that a pre-prime LeBron led some pretty atrocious offensive supporting casts to decent results in the mid 00s, before the league wide shift to a greater emphasis on spacing and 3pt shots.

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Taharqa_ posted...

The Bulls had a system, Phil and the triangle. The Cavs had LeBronball, not conducive to winning once the central piece leaves.

LeBron being overly ball dominant over a large stretch of his career is a fair criticism but it doesn't even begin to explain one of the largest discrepancies from season to season in NBA history.

The Heat had a system too and they went from the finals to being on pace to finish below .500 with Bosh the next season.

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Jordan didn't go join the Pistons when he couldn't beat them

He did go play baseball and joined the wizards though. He really would have probably lost to the rockets those years he skipped out and played baseball. Bird had to face a young Olajuwan and Jordan. Let's not act like Jordan was on bad teams either. The Bulls built a really good team around him where he was allowed to be the man thanks to Scottie Pippen. Jordan had a face Hakeem in his prime but he skipped out.

I really think it's apples and oranges. There is no GOAT. It's probably Jordan but there are a handful of players that all are for different reason.

Jordan was better than Lebron. I don't think that is a debate. I don't even put Lebron on Mount Rushmore although probably deserving. It's really the same reasons a lot of people who grew up watching Bird or Magic think Jordan was overrated. Or Russell and Chamberlain though. A lot of people who watched them thought Bird and Magic were overrated.

It's really a matter of preference and exists in people's minds. I think MAgic was the GOAT. Jordan was better than Lebron. Dr. J was the goat because he thinks like I do. If I watch old footage of Dr. J is Lebron really better? I don't know. Progress and reality would tell me Lebron is in better shape. Probably juiced. Better passer and like a Dr. J/Magic hybrid. Dr. J wasn't as good. Jordan was better than both of them. Had to play in an era when it was both physical and there were good shooters and athletes were really good. He still lost when he had to go up against the Lakers and Celics and bailed when Olajuwan was in his prime.

Jordan > Lebron. I just think the way the game is now there is so much spacing and Lebron is not that skilled a player.

Lebron accomplished less than Jordan. Had to go to Miami. He's like Chamberlain. It's a lot of hype. When it came down to it Russell was able to beat him. Chamberlain was like Goliath then too and this unstoppable force. Russell and the Celtics proved that to be false. Even when they were both in their prime and had great teams.

It's like liberalism or socialism. There is no GOAT. That's the problem with liberalism and socialism and capitalism too. It exists in peoples minds and what people are able to accomplish regarding their surroundings or not. The man sucks.

It's always Jordan and Lebron now too for the same reasons. It's because of millennials who were raised by people who hyped Jordan. Bill Russell too. It was the Lakers and Celtics back then he was able to accomplish more with less too. I still think that whole tradition of winning he created is amazing. He and the Celtics created that.

I consider the 80's and 90's the height of basketball for different reasons. The 60's and 70's and the way it is now I don't think players are as good. Players now are better than they've ever been in ways too. But are trending down in ways. It's probably going back to the way it was in the 60's and 70's or at the end of that. IT was Kobe and Lebron forever. Now it's like the 70's. There are obviously more teams. More money. More hype. It's more spread out. The players are better in ways and overall competition but there was a lot of bad basketball being played too in different ways during Lebron and Kobe's run. Lebron is like Wilt Chamberlain that way.

Derwood posted...

Jordan didn't go join the Pistons when he couldn't beat them

So true. I love LeBron, but he is not #2. If anything, LeBron should be compared to Magic, since they are more similar players in a lot of ways-- and Magic still has 2 more titles than LeBron.

I was a kid in the 80's and 90's and was all into it and probably why I think the way I do. But I've also seen different eras and can compare from actually being there. The 70's and before not so much. Lebron is a great player and an all time great, he definately should be in the top 5 or at least considered even at #1, but he is very overhyped because of the way it is now.

SauI_Goodman posted...

Jordan did more with less.

LMAO now that's a whole nother debate.

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Here's the simple answer: MJ is the GOAT in terms of being all around the best NBA player to ever lived and play the game. No one can compare but let's not make up fake stats to make MJ look even greater than he already is.

MJ didn't win by himself. He had a great team, great coaching staff. He'll be the first one to admit this so I dunno why his stans try so hard to make these fairy tales up.

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kg88222 posted...

Mount Rushmore for me is

1. MAgic
2. Russell
3. Bird
4. Jordan
5. Chamberlain

Probably in that order. I can understand the Jordan argument. Top 10 is Magic, Russell, Bird, Jordan, Chamberlain, Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Kareem. I honestly don't know where to put Kareem. Oscar Robinson deserves to be in there. Then you have your Curry's, Durants, Olajuwans and Jerry West etc..Giannis probably is top 20 out of players playing now. Harden and Westbrook aren't. Kevin Garnett is. Dirk is. They are ball hogs and haven't won for a reason. Probably more in line with the Barkley's, Ewings, Iverson's, Malones and Jason Kidd's of the world.

Lebron really has to win more to surpass Bird even still. He's on that level at this point. They are pretty equal and better and worse in different ways. I could flip flop Bird and Jordan. I think Bird's competition was stiffer. Lebron's really wasn't. And Jordan ate crow all those years.

Dang, number 4

If you asked me, today, who I'd rather start a franchise with, I MIGHT pick Prime Lebron James over Prime Jordan. I think Prime Lebron gives you comparable (Not better) scoring and defense, but I think Lebron would be better at running the modern outside-in style off play with his superior court vision and passing. In essence, Lebron gives you more impact at all positions when he's in the game.

If you asked me who strictly did their traditional role better in an offense, it was Jordan. He's the best volume scorer in the modern era, and possibly the best defensive SG in history as well. Would he be able to flex into more defensive roles or run the modern pick and roll with the three point kick outs in excess? No, but he would be the best SG on both ends of the court in the game if he played today, full stop. He might even develop a decent three-point shot with volume.

If you asked me who was the "Greater" player, it was Jordan hands down. The regular season comparisons are one thing, but Jordan almost NEVER under-performed in the playoffs. In the few case where they lost a playoff series, Jordan didn't underplay. The fact that Jordan didn't just maintain his regular season output, but EXCEEDED it in the playoffs is extremely rare for any player, including the all-time greats. I don't want to sit here and cherrypick "6 for 6" and that kind of stuff, because it's just not necessary. He was probably the greatest playoff performer in the modern era.

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SauI_Goodman posted...

son i highly recommend you go back and watch 90's basketball. 6 titles is more than 4. 6/6 = 1.000 compared to lebrons' 4/9. Plus jordan had 6 finals mvp. you have access to youtube obviously so git.

You said he did more with less which is completely untrue.

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Derwood posted...

Jordan didn't go join the Pistons when he couldn't beat them

KD was the one who joined the team he couldnt beat.

LeBron gets 4 years with a player somewhat on Pippens level (D-Wade) and the story becomes LeBron cant win without help!!! when MJ never won without Pippen.

And this is before factoring in Jordans coaching. Phil Jackson is one of the GOATs and the average fan coupe probably only name a couple of LeBrons many coaches.

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

LeBron gets 4 years with a player somewhat on Pippens level (D-Wade)

More like 2 and a half, Wade was pretty up and down in '13 and was just bad in '14.

Also, unrestricted free agency didn't even exist when Jordan lost to the Pistons.

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I'll stick with that although it's a formula I'm working on at this point and I really get how people can think Jordan is the greatest

Top 30. 1. Magic 2. Russell 3. Bird 4. Jordan 5. Chamberlain 6. Lebron 7. Kobe 8. Duncan 9. Shaq 10. Kareem 11. Curry 12. Oscar Robinson 13. Durant 14. Olajuwan 15. Giannis 16. West 17. Garnet 18. Dirk 19. Pippen 20. Dwade 21. Pierce 22. Havlicek 23. Barkley 24. Ewing 25.. Iverson 26. Cousy 27. Malone 28. Kidd 29. Stockton 30. Mchale 32. Ray Allen 33. Reggie Miller 34.Parish

Etc, etc. I had to throw a couple shooters in there at the end. I also forgot Dominique, Moses Malone, Dr. J. Gary Payton. Pau Gasol. I'm probably overrating Pierce and left those guys out. They should all be in there. Iverson,Ewing and Barkley were all more hyped prospects and more dominant players. But they didn't get a title. Then maybe Harden and Westbrook.

A lot of these oldschool guys they grew up loving Oscar Robinson with Chamberlain and Russell being the main guys. I think he's a bit overrated but that's why you hear his name all the time. He was playing in LA but became the guy who was living in the shadow, and those people still bring up his name. They just forgot they were doing that. He's in there.

The game has changed so much. It's no coincidence the game was dominated by centers but now is more spread out.

Jordan single handedly brought the Wizards from their worst season in franchise history to a legit threat for the top seed in the East until he tore his meniscus, and he was almost 40 lol

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