Board 8 > what is going on in that ffviii intro (playthrough/spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

If you have a third GF with Strength Junction you should give it to squall.

Also you could probably refine higher level spells from your items by going to the Abilities menu. (for example if ifrit learnes F-Mag RF you'll find it there and you might be able to turn some things into fira or firaga.)

I would then junction as many of those as you can to strength so you can just start swinging insteas of primarily using gfs for damage.

---

i've refined a few lv3 spells and junctioned them (optimizing for atk)

it looks like i've also neglected to equip some of the passive GF abilities i learned, like vit+20% and hp+20%

quistis has killed 30 enemies and squall had killed 50 according to some girl
---

Also drawing is dependent on your Magic stat so juntioning to that will make it much easier to grind.

---

i'll probably be drawing lv1 spells still, right?
---

Buy 30 Tents and you can refine them into 100 Curagas for each party member. Literally the easiest thing you can get that junctions super well to HP.

---

SeabassDebeste posted...

i'll probably be drawing lv1 spells still, right?

Enemies get higher level spells when they level up. I think you can start drawing level 3 spells from random encounters around lv 30

---

Easiest way to get spells by far is to play the card game and refine the cards.

I dont know of any other game where a mini-game is so important to progression in the main game.

---

k i've got the card refining mod but have liyerally never played cards
---

redrocket posted...

Easiest way to get spells by far is to play the card game and refine the cards.

I dont know of any other game where a mini-game is so important to progression in the main game.

I mean, you can still easily beat the game without playing. I didn't play Triple Triad at all my first playthrough. You get plenty of rare cards just from beating bosses.

---

redrocket posted...

I dont know of any other game where a mini-game is so important to progression in the main game.

What do you mean by important? It's completely optional and you can get completely broken without it. The things people say about this game.

---

Leonhart4 posted...

Buy 30 Tents and you can refine them into 100 Curagas for each party member. Literally the easiest thing you can get that junctions super well to HP.

This.

And you should have 16 wizard stones from beating Granaldo. Use one of the element magic refines to turn them into 80 -aga spells and Junction to strength as a quick fix.

In all fairness you should naturally have a fair few items that can refine qell just from beating bosses. So go through each refine ability one by one and see what can be refined

---

Playng it without refining cards is recommended by me on a first playthrough tbh.

---

This is making me amused I hoarded all of my cards thinking "why would I want to destroy them?" I'm not entirely sure I refined anything when I played the game in the '90s.
---

Even rare cards you refine can be regained at the end of the game, as long as you do certain side quests before disc 4.

---

Voxwik posted...

I'm not entirely sure I refined anything when I played the game in the '90s.

Yeah it's the biggest problem with the game objectively as far as I can tell. It's not anyone's fault that they play the game in an unoptimal way, the game is just a little too open about its mechanics.

1) The tutorials are poorly timed. You get your first junctioning lesson before your first battle, and you can easily get to the second one fighting just a couple. Furthermore you won't really have anything particularly meaningful to junction with so if you try it yourself you won't be well rewarded and might neglect to keep up with it. In most FFs you play a lot of simple battles before they start layering the main mechanics on top of you. This game probably needed it the most.

2) The game terms are way too vague. 95% of players are gonna tune out terms like [Str-J] and [T-Mag RF] and [ST-Def-J] in tutorials because they're not immediately clear what they're talking about or how they'll impact the main gameplay loop.

3) Giving you free choice over what abilities GFs learn is really tough because most people won't even open up the GF menu. On top of that, parsing through the in-game terms to figure out what's important is going to be impossible on a first run. I think at least the first three GFs should have come with their refinement abilities already learned. That's not something you just let the player figure out on their own. Not to mention you have to access a different menu altogether to actually use what you learn. The UI could have done a better job of funneling players into the important abilities.

---

I feel like the Ifrit and X-ATM092 fights set the game up like you're meant to rely on GF's. Or maybe that's just me.

---

Well, they want to show you how the system works, not necessarily make you overly dependent on them.

The worst thing about GFs auto-learning abilities is that they prioritize GF HP and Str abilities, which are the least useful.

---

Leonhart4 posted...

The worst thing about GFs auto-learning abilities is that they prioritize GF HP and Str abilities, which are the least useful.

yeah, this was atrocious. even with GF-spamming i've had a GF get KO'd like... maybe once or twice all game?

it's annoying that you can't have magic, item, draw, and GF all on the same character though. these all seem basic!
---

Yes, it forces you to strategize.

You should always have at least one party member with all of those things though.

---

Leonhart4 posted...

The worst thing about GFs auto-learning abilities is that they prioritize GF HP and Str abilities, which are the least useful.

This irritates me to this day as I often forget to change once a HF has learned an ability.

For the record TC FFVIII was my very first RPG of any nature and got to the end of disc 2 before I learned about refining abilities. It has a fairly steep learning curve. Not by design but because of the points mentioned above.

Still my favourite game of all time though despite these flaws.

---

Leonhart4 posted...

Yes, it forces you to strategize.

You should always have at least one party member with all of those things though.

I always thought it was cool when you put command materia on how it increased the size of your command window. They could have had a GF learn the ability to put extra commands on. Not really that important in a game where nearly everything is an avenue towards breaking the game but then again why not

---

refining stuff makes perfect sense and i've done it, but it goes against my instincts of "hoard everything HARD." the lack of MP system makes me insanely reticent to use spells, lol. and money is scarce so i've been scared of blowing it on tents too.

latest updates: squall/rinoa touring together cute, cid's debrief is hilariously toothless. "yeah edea and i were married... oh well"

something should happen next but it's not clear what yet. i'll explore the garden next time i play and i assume the garden will lnad.
---

SeabassDebeste posted...

the lack of MP system makes me insanely reticent to use spells,

hey man I routinely don't even put the Magic command on my characters because I pretty much don't use magic either. Not because I'm afraid to decrease my stock but it's just not incredibly useful to cast elemental spells.

---

SeabassDebeste posted...

the lack of MP system makes me insanely reticent to use spells, lol. and money is scarce so i've been scared of blowing it on tents too.

the lack of MP means you can pretty much use spells with impunity, just refine more than 5 spells for yourself (although nothing beats just straight up attacking if you take care of your strength stat)

SeabassDebeste posted...

and money is scarce so i've been scared of blowing it on tents too.

there is very little to actually spend money on since the only real thing you need money for is to upgrade weapons

30 Tents will barely make a dent in what you should have on hand anyway but if you want more money then just take SeeD rank tests

you can't be a penny pincher and a hoarder when you play FFVIII but the game is designed in such a way that you honestly don't need to be

---

(also if you want to upgrade weapons you're going to need to play cards and learn Mug from Diablos since that's the only way to get some of the items for the best weapons)

---

i've been working on learning mug since i got diablos but it's a slow one!
---

Ahh! She's Ellone! WORLDS COLLIDE.
---

Tbh in most rpgs I play I've started to look at items and gold as things that need to be spent eventually or it's wasted value.

Tough to do in some games on your first run of course because you're not sure what uses everything has or how plentiful they'll be but still.

The price you pay for saving your ethers and mp is the time you wasted by not killing your enemies faster

---

SeabassDebeste posted...

Ahh! She's Ellone! WORLDS COLLIDE.

Oh sh

---

SeabassDebeste posted...

Ahh! She's Ellone! WORLDS COLLIDE.

And she's been there since the first five minutes of the game too

That's a great reveal

---

hopefully will be doing more of worlds colliding soon
---

Well Ellone disappeared real quick.

We're at the Fisherman's Horizon. A lifetime ago I had a piano cover of much of the FFVIII soundtrack and remember it was good if not memorable. I do recall a song named Fisherman's Horizon, and man, this is probably the best background music in the game so far?
---

Fisherman's Horizon is a top tier town theme for the entire series

---

The original FH song is a classic but they knocked it out of the park with the Distant Worlds version.

---

Finished the music festival. Rinoa's just been frustrated by Squall's unwillingness to open up.

I don't think this game's focus around Squall is really earned. Maybe it's just because he's the best-looking dude in this world, but it seems weird to me that everyone is as obsessed with him as they are - Rinoa is allegedly in love with Seifer (or at least has some sort of past) but is extremely interested in Squall, who reciprocates almost nothing. Cid keeps thrusting more and more leadership onto Squall's shoulders, and it's not really clear why he (over Zell, for example) would be trusted with everything. He actively resists it most of the time (even while I choose the least off-putting answer). So the result is that the entirety of the gang decides to dedicate their performance to Squall.

It's clear that we're headed toward some sort of reveal on why Squall is so obsessed with being a loner - we've gotten two flashback-dreams in relatively rapid succession where he's sad about losing his sister and is promising her to be independent. I'm okay with the loner character, but I just feel like this schtick has gone on for too long, and it's irritating because for some reason, the entire world revolves around Squall. It feels like it's all pushed onto him, and that isn't going to be a satisfying character arc to me. He has to want to change more than he's shown, and if opportunities are just constantly shoveled onto his plate, that's not really a satisfying outcome to me.

In the meantime, the people of Fisherman's Horizon question the need for SeeD, which Squall immediately buries. They are mechanic specialists as a race and will do repairs just to get us the hell out. Dobe the hippie mayor and Flo, his first lady, have a pacifistic outlook on life.

Almost strawman-like, in fact, given that Galbadia attacks them not 30 seconds after they've pointed out that hello, this is a cycle of violence here. Galbadia is after Ellone and, in Tywin Lannister fashion, they're willing to burn down cities to flush her out of hiding. We dispatch a few dudes and then, hilariously, the same broken mecha that the other team did. This boss fight consists of casting Protect on everyone and then spamming my strongest Lightning-based spells (which costs me some attack points due to my junction of Thunder3 on Squall. Boo.)

I do like the music that's played at the festival, though I think I didn't choose the most harmonious combo. I went with guitar, sax, piano, and flute. Anyone have any of their own suggestions/links to the best in their opinion?

We're now in charge of Balamb Garden, so I guess I have to figure out where to go now...
---

There are 2 "main" musical compositions. Plus you can mix and match like you did in your playthrough but they comment on how awful the music sounds.

Your choices will slightly alter the dialogue between Squall and Rinoa.

Sax, Electric Guitar, Piano & Bass Guitar and the band will play "Eyes on Me", the main theme of FF8. If you choose this then S+R will have a little argument.

Guitar, Violin, Flute & Tap which will play an Irish jig. If you choose this composition then they open up to each other a little.

I prefer the latter.

---

Squall is intelligent, talented, and a natural leader despite his aversion to it (think of how he got Irvine to take the shot, for instance). He can also be trusted to be responsible at all times and not blab confidential information, unlike Zell. Sure, Squall feels uncomfortable with the amount of trust and responsibility everyone puts in him, but he's proven he can handle the burden. I don't think it's that confusing unless you think a person has to be friendly and outgoing to be thought well of. It's a military academy. They care about the guy who can get the job done, and Squall can.

(And he's a much nicer guy than he lets on anyway)

there's a reason why Cid in particular thinks so highly of him but they'll reveal that later

---

In particular I remember liking his monologues. Without them, he'd be pretty unlikable, if I remember the game correctly at least.
---

Squall is hypercompetent at fighting at least. It's tough to depict that in a video game since it's mostly just expressed in how you kill everything and stuff.

And yeah the scene with Irvine in the sniper room is a good one. But you're not necessarily asking the wrong questions either.

---

Yeah, I'm not saying it's wrong to ask the question of how quickly he's moving up the ladder because he is getting special treatment to an extent, but it's not like he's incapable.

And Squall can return Rinoa's advances plenty, even if he doesn't do so overtly. He clearly treats her differently than everyone else (FFVIII also makes a big deal of trying to communicate through body language so you have to pay attention to that, too). But one of my biggest problems with the game is that they hide a lot of it behind missable scenes (I didn't even realize there were a bunch of extra scenes you can get during the private tour with Rinoa until like my third playthrough) or dialogue choices. If you don't get those scenes or you don't pick the "right" choices, there can be a weird disconnect with that romance.

---

More

---

time seems so scarce! will try tonight, but if not, should be able to get some hours in this weekend
---

Got in an hour-plus. There was a lot of pointless meandering. I strapped in Zell and Rinoa and was confused about how to access Balamb, which is where Xu and Quistis have decided I should go. I wander the Balamb Plain but can't figure out how to get into the town, so then I fly around more and visit several other sites, including a Shumi trading post (I leave right away), the remains of the town that Laguna once guarded (now safe to run around in, but seeing ghosts there), Rinoa's town, and more.

Eventually - and I'm talking like an hour later - I return to Balamb and realize you can walk into that town. Galbadian troops seem to have taken over for the time being. I hadn't realized 'til this moment that this is Zell's hometown. The guard accosts us, and Squall quickly BSes that we're here to deliver intel on Ellone. He also takes some time to poke fun at Zell once we're in Zell's house. Anyway, one set of guards wants us to contact the Commander, but then the guards surrounding the Commander tell us to get the Captain first. The Captain... apparently likes napping a lot.

Well, okay then. We search high and low, discovering nooks we hadn't seen before, and spending our last $5000 on a useless hint. But finally, the smell of fish in Zell's own house (!!!) leads us to Raijin! He's poisoned his own dudes with fish.

Raijin is a rather easy battle once I cast Protect on everyone - he doesn't have any surprise moves, and I beat him without having to heal thanks to the newly junctioned HP boosts. I take him down extremely patiently with Squall attacking, Rinoa using Ice magic, and Zell attacking since I haven't equipped Magic to him. After I get tired of it, I hit Raijin with Leviathan via Zell - awesome animation - which finishes him.

It's a bit more of a surprise when he runs inside to rejoin Fujin for a dual boss battle, with no break. I haphazardly cast Protect on everyone and then go about healing during the battle with Cure2, then go to work with Ice3 spells from Squall and Rinoa and constant Leviathan barrages from Zell. Once Raijin goes down a second time, we focus on Fujin. Rinoa hits her with magic of various strengths, and Zell's focus goes from Leviathan to Diablos. Down goes Fujin.

When we return, Selphie almost immediately reappears and suggests we go to her home Garden. She mentions it's icy there; I'm certain it's the mountainous/snowy area to the north where I'd previously found the Shumi. But that's to come.

---

* "Flowers bloom over and over. I wonder if people do the same?"

* I've upgraded Squall's sword. It's now red and fiery. Cooool. I've also attached 96-100 Curaga to everyone's HP. It cost pretty much all my money. But yeah, it's nice. I've also given Rinoa HP+40% which is crazy.

* I also finally got the Card ability in battle to work. I've just learned Mug, so looking forward to giving that skill to someone over Attack. Possibly Squall - he's got the best attack by far. And then I can un-junction Card from Squall and give it to someone less useful.

* I really like Fujin's character design.

* The awesome Fisherman's Horizon theme plays in Laguna/Raine's town. It's a shame the music in Balamb Garden and the world map kinda suck.
---

SeabassDebeste posted...

It's a shame the music in Balamb Garden and the world map kinda suck.

wat

---

I wish Xu had a bigger part in the game.

---

Did you draw from Fujin

---

Not a fan of the world map music and the Balamb Garden theme just wears on you after a while.

---

WazzupGenius00 posted...

Did you draw from Fujin

I did! Pandemona get.

Haven't examined what it does yet!
---

well "we grew up in the same orphanage" was even stupider than it sounds
---

Orphanage scene is great

Fight me

---