Current Events > 'ppl who disregard a struggling artists financial woes should do without art'

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://i.imgur.com/eoBu8iK.jpg

It kind of doesnt make sense. Even without the financial motivation I still feel people would be working on their art/artistic projects for the love of it on the side after their "real job". And its exactly what most people do in their spare time with their hobbies. Making money as an artist is pretty much lottery hopes tier

If anything the financial motivation can make things worse which is why with movies we just have remake after remake or some sort of superhero movie which is guaranteed to make money.

Agreed

"You should have gotten a better job" is almost always going to be stupid because it lacks so much perspective

Yes I agree, and choosing beggars who love art but get confused when the artist is charging for their work are really the worst

Your idea of how artists operate is severely out of touch, OP

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It's dumb

Most of the people who watch tv, film, visit museums, play video games and go to the theater are, in fact, supporting artists when they do that.

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ITT people that don't understand the lady.

She's just saying if no one tried pursuing their artistic passions, we would NOT have all the media we have today. No music, games, films, movies etc..

And its exactly what most people do in their spare time with their hobbies. Making money as an artist is pretty much lottery hopes tier

I don't think you understand how much damn time it takes to make a huge art project. Doing it as a 'hobby' is really asking for a lot of commitment, stress, burnout and lack of quality. Also, it puts most people off from even trying

Can't wait for the Avengers made by a bunch of working adults doing the movie simply as a 'side hobby'. The m,ovie would probably take 100 years to finish

Wutobliteration posted...

ITT people that don't understand the lady.

She's just saying if no one tried pursuing their artistic passions, we would NOT have all the media we have today. No music, games, films, movies etc..

I don't think you understand how much damn time it takes to make a huge art project. Doing it as a 'hobby' is really asking for a lot of commitment, stress, burnout and lack of quality. Also, it puts most people off from even trying

Nah bro, it's you who doesn't understand. Chick Corea should have just done music in his off time after getting off his shift at the helpdesk

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Wutobliteration posted...

Can't wait for the Avengers made by a bunch of working adults doing the movie simply as a 'side hobby'. The m,ovie would probably take 100 years to finish

Imagine bringing up The Avengers as an artistic endeavor lmfao

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ChuckSDeuces posted...

Imagine bringing up The Avengers as an artistic endeavor lmfao

Here we go, "it's not real art" already.

Alright, fine. Imagine Beethoven writing his 9 symphonies as a weekend distraction from his blacksmithing job.

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Wait we're comparing artists with beggars?

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pinky0926 posted...

Imagine Beethoven writing his 9 symphonies as a weekend distraction

But people liked his shit enough to support him. Just like what people do with twitch, youtube, music, movies and pretty much all other forms of art etc

pinky0926 posted...

Here we go, "it's not real art" already.

No, but Avengers was made as a product first and foremost...

pinky0926 posted...

Alright, fine. Imagine Beethoven writing his 9 symphonies as a weekend distraction from his blacksmithing job.

Beethoven was on such a level that he had plenty of rich patrons.

That's the difference between Beethoven and some mediocre soundcloud artists who feel entitled to money simply because they're "following their dream"

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WilliamPorygon posted...

And if they are struggling financially then maybe their services arent as valued as they thought and they should consider a more stable job and keep the art as a side gig.

The artistic world has its own 1% that throws off the pay scale for the 99%.

It is very much all about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps.

toyota posted...

And if they are struggling financially then maybe their services arent as valued as they thought and they should consider a more stable job and keep the art as a side gig.

But if you only do art on the side you might get burnt out

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pinky0926 posted...

Nah bro, it's you who doesn't understand. Chick Corea should have just done music in his off time after getting off his shift at the helpdesk

Lmao this is sig worthy

pinky0926 posted...

Here we go, "it's not real art" already.

Alright, fine. Imagine Beethoven writing his 9 symphonies as a weekend distraction from his blacksmithing job.

This too

But anyways, I agree with the notion that artists especially today are super entitled. If they were a lot more honest about making art to get paid instead of telling me support all artists because they wanna make sure they open that opportunity for themselves then Id be a lot more willing to pay

Im a musician and its not like I want my music to sell because someone can give me money, I really want them to like it so I can say haha **** yeah they really like it and that to me is real artistry. People make art, but theyre missing the whole deal here. Who are you? People didnt care about my band or even me, they cared about the idea of someone (especially at that time writing something that really sounded like The Doors meets Black Sabbath) so young getting on stage and really being into music, talking about the past, living it, dancing to music on stage + just looking weird enough that it was cool. I always told people were into bucks but if you wanted to pay me in gum you could

Its more like are you really your art and I think most art today looks like people always playing it safe.. super technically proficient stuff no doubt, but nothing new or transpiring.. who am I though? These are just my own recollections.

Yeah its really hard for creative people to monetize their talents if they arent top of their class

Things like art that arent very profitable shouldn't be anything more then a hobby. Period. Drawing is something you can easily do whenever you want whenever you've got freetime.

So fucking yourself over trying to make it a full time career doeasnt make much sense to me.

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I dont like how the premise starts with "people are unsympathetic to struggling artists financial woes" and ends with "people call struggling artists drains on society and unworthy of life"

Anyways i disagree with her. The art i consume was good enough to be commercialized. I dont think it makes sense to equate the loss of skilled commercially viable artists to unskilled/niche artists. If theyre not arting things people want arted, they should get a real job

No one is paying me to code shit no one asked for either.

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ChuckSDeuces posted...

But if you only do art on the side you might get burnt out

But what can you do. You gotta eat. Most people would rather be making money off their hobby than the job they actually work. Another plan is to marry a guy/girl who makes enough money that they dont mind supporting you

Whining about your financial woes as an artist then getting snarky at people who reply back and question why you dont you try something more stable then telling them to fuck off and how about to not enjoy other peoples art for 30 days isnt going to help fix your money problems lol.

Financial struggles as an artist just comes with the territory if you want to be a full time artist. If you choose that path then it really is on you. Heck, some artists probably even get off on the aesthetic of being a struggling artist (but secretly have their parents supporting them).

Memes aside, what does that person exactly want from society to fix the 'financial struggles of an artist' lol? Like what other advice can you give besides maybe its time to get a 'regular' job if their art isnt good enough that people dont really want to purchase/support it? Definitely dont discourage people doing their art/hobbies completely though.

toyota posted...

But what can you do. You gotta eat. Most people would rather be making money off their hobby than the job they actually work. Another plan is to marry a guy/girl who makes enough money that they dont mind supporting you

Whining about your financial woes as an artist then getting snarky at people who reply back and question why you dont you try something more stable then telling them to fuck off and how about to not enjoy other peoples art for 30 days isnt going to help fix your money problems lol.

Financial struggles as an artist just comes with the territory if you want to be a full time artist. If you choose that path then it really is on you. Heck, some artists probably even get off on the aesthetic of being a struggling artist (but secretly have their parents supporting them).

Memes aside, what does that person exactly want from society to fix the 'financial struggles of an artist' lol? Like what other advice can you give besides maybe its time to get a 'regular' job if their art isnt good enough that people dont really want to purchase/support it? Definitely dont discourage people doing their art/hobbies completely though.

Sorry, I agree with you and was mocking the person who said that before.

How would someone get burnt out on a hobby over doing it as a 24/7 full time job?

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g980 posted...

The art i consume was good enough to be commercialized.

Maybe viewing art through a capitalist lens is not the best way to determine what qualifies as good art.

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She's right. Unambiguously and undeniably. The people who disagree just want to leech.

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toyota posted...

https://i.imgur.com/eoBu8iK.jpg

Lies Detected: None.

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I feel like some people are oversimplifying the issue.

On the one hand, art is more viable career than people are making it out to be. Most art programs nowadays are moving to digital art and their graduates go on to get marketing jobs. Do you know how in demand you are if you can design billboards, logos, and websites? Traditional 2D art programs exist still, but are shrinking compared to 3D art and digital art. People who make fun of art majors don't really understand how valuable their skillset is. I worked at a college with a big art program and most graduates got full time jobs at ad agencies, corporations, and even designing t shirts and such for a state park. Their work is definitely valued and people who say it should just be a hobby are severely underestimating how important artists are to the economy.

But on the other hand, artists who venture off on their own are not being smart about it and then complain that the world doesn't appreciate them. The fact is if you are a freelancer artist then you are basically running an art business. As such, all?entrepreneurial rules apply. You wanna make money doing art? Make a business plan. Do market research on the viability of your market. Before you spend all that money on art supplies, dona cost analysis on how you would fund it and how many sales it would take to return your investment. And for the love of God, have a healthy marketing budget. You can't expect a new restaurant to succeed without spending any money on advertising. You also can't expect an artist to succeed if his only marketing avenue is posting his art on facebook.

I have an artist friend who does very well selling her art. In all honesty, it's not that great (compared to others I see). But she treats it as a business. She advertises through the proper channels, makes cold calls to businesses about her services, does promotions, and constantly asks for referrals and google reviews. And she does great. She takes orders and people pay her handsomely for it. Most of her referrals come from people who appreciated the service more than the quality of artwork itself. They say the price is great, turnaround time is fast, and she gives off a professional vibe, not a struggling artist vibe.

If you, as an artist, cannot commit to the requirements of running a business, then freelancing isn't for you and you should get a corporate job.

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FursonaNonGrata posted...

Maybe viewing art through a capitalist lens is not the best way to determine what qualifies as good art.

This is also a good point. Literally the stupidest way to view art.

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"Artists should be free to spend their days mastering their craft so that working people can toil away in a more beautiful world" - Ken M

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Bryfang posted...

So many salty people ITT, mad that it's possible for people to make money not doing what they hate.

It's more like we're laughing at mediocre artists who cry and bitch about nobody wanting to pay them for their mediocre work as if they're entitled to it simply on the grounds of being artists.

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ChuckSDeuces posted...

It's more like we're laughing at mediocre artists who cry and bitch about nobody wanting to pay them for their mediocre work as if they're entitled to it simply on the grounds of being artists.

Are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6'4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought.What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know.

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Yikes

FursonaNonGrata posted...

Maybe viewing art through a capitalist lens is not the best way to determine what qualifies as good art.

It is if the complaint is about not getting paid enough

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g980 posted...

It is if the complaint is about not getting paid enough

It's not though. You're intentionally limiting your ability to consume and appreciate art if you've convinced yourself that the only good art is that which is commodified

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She's 100% correct

Artists are undervalued and often underpaid.

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I'm been trying to spend all that exposure those promoters paid me in but I can't find any place that accepts it.

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I appreciate art

i play video games and have posters of my favorites on my wall

This woman is the equivalent of a guy who didn't make the cut for his college basketball team but continues to play in amateur leagues complaining that people should go without the NBA for a month because they don't appreciate how hard he practices his free throw in his back yard.

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I'm fine with this idea if she wants to strip out the bullshit like sculpture in random places or music playing while walking around the grocery store.

I'm less fine with the ridiculous idea that just because I don't support every artist I shouldn't be allowed to enjoy things I paid for be it a book, music, a game, or whatever. Thinking all artists deserve to live comfortable lives so they can pursue their creative talents is like peak entitlement. Plenty of people work on their passion projects in their spare time while working a real job and eventually make a career out of it. In this modern era of Kickstarter, Patreon, and other crowd funding sources if you cannot find a way to get paid for your talents then the failure is on you for either not creating something people deem valuable or for not reaching your audience, not on society for refusing to allow a capable person to be a leech on it.
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If you're an artist who makes a living I appreciate you. Someone who's drawings actually sell, behind the scenes contributors in movies whose names you only see in the credits, people who contribute to the making of video games, etc and etc. You are a valuable person who deserves a lot.

However if you're an untalented artist who has been struggling for years, barely scrapping by, I don't feel sorry for you at all. Change your career.

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She's having a gigantic meltdown.
@Reis you gotta see this

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one of the stupidest topics I have seen in a long time

are you seriously implying it's better off if artists are poor because it makes their art better???

what kinf of bizarro world is this

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kirbymuncher posted...

one of the stupidest topics I have seen in a long time

are you seriously implying it's better off if artists are poor because it makes their art better???

what kinf of bizarro world is this

It's such a naive and silly attitude, thinking artists shouldn't be in it for the money because that'd corrupt their work.

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ChuckSDeuces posted...

It's more like we're laughing at mediocre artists who cry and bitch about nobody wanting to pay them for their mediocre work as if they're entitled to it simply on the grounds of being artists.

you probably consume a lot of mediocre art

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People who have a shitty attitude towards artists deserve no respect themselves
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The obvious missing context here is how often artists are peppered by choosing beggars.

It goes like this:

Guy: hey man I love your work can you draw me something?
Artist: Sure that'll be $40
Guy: woah what that's expensive lol I was hoping you would do it for free lol
Artist: Sorry man, I have bills to pay.
Guy: woah greedy much? I thought you did art because you enjoyed it
Artist: Yes, but I make my own art as a hobby. I charge out my skills as a service. So if you want the art it's $40.
Guy: Well if you were so concerned with money maybe you should have got a real job.
Artist: This is my real job. It takes time and skil and expensive tools.
Guy: Your art sucks anyway

This idea that artists are confused why they are not rich is absurd. Mostly they're just annoyed by requests like the above.

Bonus points for: "I could do it myself", "come on it will take you 5 minutes", and my personal favourite, "I'll give you a good review and you'll get heaps of business from it"

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toyota posted...

If anything the financial motivation can make things worse which is why with movies we just have remake after remake or some sort of superhero movie which is guaranteed to make money.

Nah, if we are talking about movies and games, for example, the financial motivation is coming from the business side of the house, not the art side. The writer, the cinematographer, the director and similar development members would forever be pushing their product to be the best it can be, or at least the best in representing the art they see in their minds. They wouldnt be doing remakes, but the sad reality is that most investors dont want to pay for a project that isnt likely to make a great return on investment.

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pinky0926 posted...

The obvious missing context here is how often artists are peppered by choosing beggars.

It goes like this:

Guy: hey man I love your work can you draw me something?
Artist: Sure that'll be $40
Guy: woah what that's expensive lol I was hoping you would do it for free lol
Artist: Sorry man, I have bills to pay.
Guy: woah greedy much? I thought you did art because you enjoyed it
Artist: Yes, but I make my own art as a hobby. I charge out my skills as a service. So if you want the art it's $40.
Guy: Well if you were so concerned with money maybe you should have got a real job.
Artist: This is my real job. It takes time and skil and expensive tools.
Guy: Your art sucks anyway

This idea that artists are confused why they are not rich is absurd. Mostly they're just annoyed by requests like the above.

Bonus points for: "I could do it myself", "come on it will take you 5 minutes", and my personal favourite, "I'll give you a good review and you'll get heaps of business from it"

This is extremely valid. I know it might seem like I'm against the concept of art being a career based on what I posted above, but that's not the case. If you have a product people want you absolutely deserve to be paid for it. In fact, I've commissioned a few different art pieces myself over the years. I've got a whole folder of character concept art, all of which I was very happy to pay for because the artists did a great job of taking my fairly vague character descriptions and turning it into awesome sketches.

My problem is with artists who think they deserve a free ride just because they're creating art, especially the ones who want to point at famous Renaissance era artists and musicians as examples of why artists should get special treatment. Look folks, when your art is so awe inspiring that it moves someone with more money than sense to commission statues, paintings, sonnets, or operas for their personal enjoyment then you can probably count on their patronage to support you. Until then be prepared to keep working that 9 to 5 while networking to find a paying gig.

Lorenzo_2003 posted...

The writer, the cinematographer, the director and similar development members would forever be pushing their product to be the best it can be, or at least the best in representing the art they see in their minds.

You just described Stanley Kubrick lol
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this argument has genuinely exhausted my outlook on life

people are just so hell-bent on keeping each other down instead of pushing for a better system


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Imo it boils down to:

Not every artist is good
Not every one will enjoy even a good artist's work

Who's job is it to financially support every artist?

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