Current Events > "Feminism helps men too."

(+) Yeah! (+)

Discuss.

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Femism. I saw.

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Well, feminism made it so women can work and get a job
So yes, I get to be an unemployed house husband while my wife works in the future ^__^

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no thanks

i don't do the whole bitter neckbeard feminism is ruining the world for non-soibois schtick

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CreepySmile posted...

Well, feminism made it so women can work and get a job
So yes, I get to be an unemployed house husband while my wife works in the future ^__^

I'm sure she totally wouldn't leave you in that hypothetical scenario.

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Orlando_Jordan posted...

I'm sure she totally wouldn't leave you in that hypothetical scenario.

Ironically I actually have known a few women like that, mostly mid-level or upper level managers, like C levels who had that relationship because they made enough to support both people and 2-3 kids

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Unless you are a man who genuinely does not care about any women then yes, it helps men too.

You could also argue that it means your daughters aren't just property and have no recourse if a man they marry beats them or abuses them or their kids. Because of feminism there is less domestic abuse overall for women. Which are the daughters of men so it does help.

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Tenlaar posted...

Unless you are a man who genuinely does not care about any women then yes, it helps men too.

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Depends on the brand of feminism.

Stonger, more independent women is a good thing if you ask me. Women should be paid equal wages.

Shitting on all men because very few pull the strings is something a crazy person does.

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The very core concept, sure. It's simply seeking equality. If everyone is brought to equal status, that's good for everyone. For how it is put into practice, no. The definition of feminism is fractured into many different ideologies, meaning it depends on who you're talking to. You have the pure equality people, you have the ones who probably mean well but work off of false narratives, and then you have the fringe man-hating cultists.

Real feminism is a very good thing for everyone.

However, there are many women using it as an excuse to hate and attack men, or to get benefits.

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Turn this around, does Men's Rights Activism help women?

Well equal rights/treatment for both sexes helps humanity in general, although benefits for women would be indirect. And there are many MRAs who genuinely hate women.

Literally the exact same situation as feminism but with the sexes flipped.
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I get a lot of people are talking about the feminists who just use it as a reason to blame everything on men but it's a bit like comparing all conservatives to alt right neonazis or comparing all liberals to wanting white people to be shot on sight for arguing with a person who isn't white

Like I get it. These people are idiots and scum but they're minority and it's weird people think this is what feminism is

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Feminism doesn't even help women.

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There's too many schools of feminism to picka side, but I find "it helps you too" usually comes form people that think "you'll be much happier once you do what I tell you to."

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CreepySmile posted...

These people are idiots and scum but they're minority and it's weird people think this is what feminism is

they're the vocal ones

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Damn_Underscore posted...

Turn this around, does Men's Rights Activism help women?

Ideally all civil rights make society much more bearable for all people as a whole.

Is this true in practice? Not at all.

Men don't need advocacy groups the same way women do. Women literally do not have the same representation.

Anyone who thinks men have it hard and need society to lift them up are crazy. Plus it defies all that is man.

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The non-radical kind does.

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CreepySmile posted...

I get a lot of people are talking about the feminists who just use it as a reason to blame everything on men but it's a bit like comparing all conservatives to alt right neonazis or comparing all liberals to wanting white people to be shot on sight for arguing with a person who isn't white

Like I get it. These people are idiots and scum but they're minority and it's weird people think this is what feminism is

This is what some guys pretend feminism is so that they have an excuse to shit on the entire movement.


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Damn_Underscore posted...

Turn this around, does Men's Rights Activism help women?

Well equal rights/treatment for both sexes helps humanity in general, although benefits for women would be indirect. And there are many MRAs who genuinely hate women.

Literally the exact same situation as feminism but with the sexes flipped.

Not really.
Feminism, even first and second wave feminism is still a strange and unhead of concept implemented properly in some places

Now if you want to argue that men's rights help women in balancing the favour, sure. I know women who would argue that the father should have prime custody of the kids or that they wanted men's shelters so they had someone to talk to on an even level. It does help. It's just going as far back since men could usually always vote, get a job, etc.

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lol no

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Wii_Shaker posted...

Ideally all civil rights make society much more bearable for all people as a whole.

Is this true in practice? Not at all.

Men don't need advocacy groups the same way women do. Women literally do not have the same representation.

Anyone who thinks men have it hard and need society to lift them up are crazy. Plus it defies all that is man.

Do you honestly think there are no issues inherent to men that need societal change? I don't really have an opinion either way on the necessity of men's rights groups in general due to them having the same potential issue of demonizing "the other side", but not having as many issues as another group does not mean there are no issues whatsoever.

Feminism in America is not close to the same thing as feminism in Saudi Arabia.

In America right now, feminism and men's rights activism are conceptually seeking the same thing but with the primary sexes flipped.
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As a man whose wife makes considerably more than me, I'm all for that shit. We're fucking rich thanks to mostly her.

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nemu posted...

Do you honestly think there are no issues inherent to men that need societal change?

I never said that, I just don't believe that men need a movement behind their rights the way that women do. Even the Civil Rights Act of 1964 didn't grant blacks and other minorities equality. Just look at minority communities compared to white communities. Look at the disparity in the crime and incarceration rate. That's not equality.

Equal pay for women would be a good place to start though.

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4th wave feminism puts a strong emphasis on the idea that the patriarchy hurts men as well, suggesting that under the patriarchy men and boys aren't able to express themselves. Ever heard the phrase "suck it up and be a man" before? That basically just means you as a man have to put yourself through really shitty shit and just deal with it because you have a penis. Feminism seeks to end that ASAP.

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I don't think it's not true.
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Wii_Shaker posted...

I never said that, I just don't believe that men need a movement behind their rights the way that women do. Even the Civil Rights Act of 1964 didn't grant blacks and other minorities equality. Just look at minority communities compared to white communities. Look at the disparity in the crime and incarceration rate. That's not equality.

Equal pay for women would be a good place to start though.

I feel like we must be speaking of different countries if you're talking about equal pay not being mandated by law.

Politics posted...

4th wave feminism puts a strong emphasis on the idea that the patriarchy hurts men as well, suggesting that under the patriarchy men and boys aren't able to express themselves. Ever heard the phrase "suck it up and be a man" before? That basically just means you as a man have to put yourself through really shitty shit and just deal with it because you have a penis. Feminism seeks to end that ASAP.

It's part of a much larger problem of mental health and how seriously people handle it. Men and women are not at ends with each other and should be helping each other out.

Men and women need to take mental health and emotional anguish seriously. Men need to make it easier to allow the women the rights to their own bodies. Denying them that is among the stupidest dick-swinging in modern civil rights history.

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nemu posted...

I feel like we must be speaking of different countries if you're talking about equal pay not being mandated by law.

How naive must you be to think that this isn't still a problem in the US?

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Helped? Sure its helped. Its helped separate men from their kids and assets.

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Wii_Shaker posted...

How naive must you be to think that this isn't a problem in the US?

Luckily, if you know of a business paying men and women differently based solely on their sex, you can report them because that is completely illegal.

nemu posted...

Luckily, if you know of a business paying men and women differently based solely on their sex, you can report them because that is completely illegal.

So is embezzlement and fraud but it still happens.

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The meaning of feminism has changed dramatically. If you hate women, you are a misogynist and shunned by anyone that wants to be accepted into society, but if you hate men then you are welcomed with open arms by feminists.

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Yes, feminism is about equality at its core.

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Wii_Shaker posted...

So is embezzlement and fraud but it still happens.

Then you'd need to list who is doing it, the frequency at which it happens, and why it's not being fixed in order to determine if it's a major problem or just an over-inflated talking point happening to some sub-1% amount of people.

the 4th wave is the worst of it ... aligned with SJW and cancel culture
1st and limitedly 2nd wave were OK

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Radical feminism that calls for the blood of men and is run by man hating women gets criticism from legitimate feminists also.

both genders know crazy when they see it. Its like when dudes see those types on MGTOW who are wayyyyyy too into hating on women.

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WarfireX posted...

The meaning of feminism has changed dramatically. If you hate women, you are a misogynist and shunned by anyone that wants to be accepted into society, but if you hate men then you are welcomed with open arms by feminists.

This /topic.

Sweet

nemu posted...

Then you'd need to list who is doing it, the frequency at which it happens, and why it's not being fixed in order to determine if it's a major problem or just an over-inflated talking point happening to some sub-1% amount of people.

I don't need to list shit. Why do you think corporate jobs don't like employees to discuss their salaries? It's because some people get paid less for doing the same job. It might sound like I'm passing the buck but that's a job for HR. That's the reason some women need representation. It's the reason we have things like OSHA and workplace standards. But yes, there are those who are marginalized and their rights are just as important as everyone else's.

I'm not here to argue. That's just the point I'm trying to make. Let's not pretend it doesn't' exist though.

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Wii_Shaker posted...

I don't need to list shit. Why do you think corporate jobs don't like employees to discuss their salaries? It's because some people get paid less for doing the same job. It might sound like I'm passing the buck but that's a job for HR. That's the reason some women need representation. It's the reason we have things like OSHA and workplace standards. But yes, there are those who are marginalized and their rights are just as important as everyone else's.

I'm not here to argue. That's just the point I'm trying to make. Let's not pretend it doesn't' exist though.

If you don't have statistics, you can't reasonably discuss the problem. It's like when people say "circumstance X has had a 1000% increase," but then you learn the occurrences of circumstance X were less than 50 in the first place. It's one thing to say you think it's something to be addressed in some form, and another to act like you did and say it's "it's a good place to start" as if it's some rampant problem with vast amounts of evidence.

Politics posted...

4th wave feminism puts a strong emphasis on the idea that the patriarchy hurts men as well, suggesting that under the patriarchy men and boys aren't able to express themselves. Ever heard the phrase "suck it up and be a man" before? That basically just means you as a man have to put yourself through really shitty shit and just deal with it because you have a penis. Feminism seeks to end that ASAP.

Until men actually do, and what's making them cry is the 4th wave feminists acting like men are a poison on society. Then they laugh at "male tears" "white male rage" "male fragility" etc. Don't get me starte don the knee jerk reaction to MRA's. They might be disingenuous, but some guys do feel that way and get shat on for it.

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No.

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I don't see how it hurts men. It makes men's lives better.

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Lich_Sandro posted...

So brave