Current Events > Does anyone ever think democracy is actually a failure in disguise?

(+) Yeah! (+)

look at China in comparison. Complete political stability. So what if the governmnet is somewhat of a tyranny, doesnt hold elections and brainwashes the people in a certain direction? Look what the greater goods they are in accomplishing...

1. Greater nationalism in China than ever before. So much so even Chinese nationals overseas dare boast about their country.
2. Complete efficiency in passing laws with the politburo having full control. No stupid bickering over issues that cost precious time and resources.
3. No BS distractions or lobbying or trying to run populist election campagins to appeal to the majority of people (most of whom tend to be politically ignorant (and especially so if you take into account all the farmers, illiterates and just plain uneducated).
4. Most importantly, POLITCAL STABILITY. PEACE. ECONOMIC PROGRESS. WEALTH. The government can focus on running the country and only top elites that are the smartest and capable can be a part of the government. Not dumbcracks elected by dumbcracks.

The only problem with a totalitarian state is of course, corruption and censorship. But it can also be mitigated through other ways. Singapore, for example, (not as totalitarian like China) mitigates by super high salaries for the ministers and maintaining their technocracy through meritocracy.

Honestly, looking at the USA, with a political system dictated by too much concerns over the disenfranchised, majority and opposing views...and most of all, 'MUH FREEDOM!!'

individualism presides as a priority. It'll also lead to disillusionment, ironically selfishness and eventual downfall.

And yes, it's kinda eventual the US WILL collapse. I say this out of both retrospect and a prospective view. Go look back in history. The only reason the USA remains a top powerful country today is due to their victory in WW2, and lack of destruction and resource depletion in the past centuries. That's how the country racked up so much military firepower, an economic boom and rose to the international stage.

During this time in history, Asia was mostly colonised by the West and didn't have the chance to modernise as much. Now's different.

It's only a matter of time Asia will rise and overtake the West. Anyway enough ranting. Just my thoughts. I'd rather be governed by an elite group of people who knows best for the country than a bunch of incapable leaders elected by an incapable majority.

what's the quality of life for the average Chinese person? compare that to the average American person. Which do you think is better?

Lol no.

Wutobliteration posted...

So what if the governmnet is somewhat of a tyranny, doesnt hold elections and brainwashes the people in a certain direction?

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https://youtu.be/GzXAbm55DOE
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#justfascistthings

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Oh, I'm sorry, are Taiwan and South Korea(which had its first case literally the same day as ours) not applicable?

RebelElite791 posted...

#justfascistthings

I'm sorry you can only equate a technocracy for 'facism' like that's the only political term you know, other than communism. Both of which means 'EVIL EVIL!' in your little book of ignorance.

I feel sad for you. There's no black and white in this world, child

ElatedVenusaur posted...

Oh, I'm sorry, are Taiwan and South Korea(which had its first case literally the same day as ours) not applicable?

Both have great political systems as well. Taiwan however, just happens to be a s***t state by a bullying China. South Korea is doing mostly fine as well.

DarthAragorn posted...

Lol no.

explain.

oh wait, you cant

Fam_Fam posted...

what's the quality of life for the average Chinese person? compare that to the average American person. Which do you think is better?

China no doubt, has a burgeoning income gap but all developed countries face this. But if we look say, 50 years into the future, I honestly think China would be much much better off. The government always acts in the idea of collectivism, as compared to Western values of Individualism. And this overall benefits most people in the end as the economy progresses.

The quality of life in China is bad.

Thats it. Thats the only metric to measure a country by: people arent happy. Why on Earth do we try to measure the success of countries by any metric other than the happiness of people living there?

Note: this is not a defense of democracy, which should not be taken blindly as the best government ever, nor should any one type of system. But to act like China, of all countries, is what we should strive to be. There are many countries also economically successful and with actually happy citizens whose governments we should strive to replicate instead.

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I am starting to believe more and more that the human race in general might be too dumb for democracy. When I look at what is happening in some democratic countries and we are effecting the planet.

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Bananana posted...

The quality of life in China is bad.

Thats it. Thats the only metric to measure a country by: people arent happy. Why on Earth do we try to measure the success of countries by any metric other than the happiness of people living there?

not for long. Compared to before Deng XiaoPing's open economy policy, almost ALL of China was bad. Now you see the lower class people moving up into the middle class and the middle class moving up into the upper class. Consumer spending rises, wealth is generated, the country reaps big. I'm admittedly, also basing on trickle-down economics but the idea remains the same.

You think American people are any better? Dont look at the present situation. Look at the trend. From past compared to present compared to future. \
China has been burdened by poverty since colonialism era. They only started their meteoric rise recently. Meanwhile how long as America prospered in comparison and had their amazing headstart?

ALIEN_WORK2HOP posted...

I am starting to believe more and more that the human race in general might be too dumb for democracy. When I look at what is happening in some democratic countries and we are effecting the planet.

humanity have always been dumb. Most people are always dumb. It can't be helped. That's why a technocracy is the best government system. Let the smartest and most capable people run the country, not a bunch of dimwits elected by the majority of dimwits.

Look at the monarchy system in the past. It was also a s***fest because instead of dimwits being elected by dimwits, it was about dimwits inheriting power from previous dimwits. Occasionally, you'd have that good king, but other times you have another dimwit taking over and ruining all the progress. That's how kingdoms and empires rise and fall

Bananana posted...

The quality of life in China is bad.

Thats it. Thats the only metric to measure a country by: people arent happy. Why on Earth do we try to measure the success of countries by any metric other than the happiness of people living there?

Note: this is not a defense of democracy, which should not be taken blindly as the best government ever, nor should any one type of system. But to act like China, of all countries, is what we should strive to be. There are many countries also economically successful and with actually happy citizens whose governments we should strive to replicate instead.

it's also a bit naive to assume that the US is actually a democracy.

and this part:

the USA, with a political system dictated by too much concerns over the disenfranchised, majority and opposing views

is just flat out false

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Shut it commie

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averagejoel posted...

it's also a bit naive to assume that the US is actually a democracy.

Yeah, I didnt even comment on that. I assumed the TC was meaning representative democracy/republic when he said democracy.

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What in the Chinese propaganda is going on in here

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Wutobliteration posted...

You think American people are any better? Dont look at the present situation. Look at the trend. From past compared to present compared to future. \
China has been burdened by poverty since colonialism era. They only started their meteoric rise recently. Meanwhile how long as America prospered in comparison and had their amazing headstart?

My point isnt that America is perfect - far too many people are unhappy here as well. But there are countries who have consistently had great success in their economy and populations happiness. A flat line at the top of the scale is much more impressive than a positive trend that will one day get there.

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the problem with democracy is most citizenry is lazy and prone to picking the loudest carnival barker, frequently too uneducated to fully study the system in any type of detail, and too prone to xenophobia to learn to work with other groups (dem ones mentality)

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coolboy11 posted...

the problem with democracy is most citizenry is lazy and prone to picking the loudest carnival barker, frequently too uneducated to fully study the system in any type of detail, and too prone to xenophobia to learn to work with other groups (dem ones mentality)

the problem you're describing isn't an issue with the people. it's an issue with the system being extremely vulnerable to fascists

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averagejoel posted...

the problem you're describing isn't an issue with the people. it's an issue with the system being extremely vulnerable to fascists

I don't fully agree. Yes, the fascism thing but also it's an issue with the culture and the voter not being informed and rather following partisan politics blindly. People have the responsibility to educate themselves but many people would rather just parrot what they have absorbed without actually processing it.

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This is only one aspect of it and obviously doesn't cover the whole spectrum, but...

At least in America it's possible for you to do better if you want to. It's not easy and some have it harder than others but the option is always there to try. Hell, if you want to sit home and do nothing that's also possible. It's really up to the individual and that's what's cool. The problem lies in that lots of people don't see themselves in the same boat as everyone else but hopefully this quarantine changes that a bit. Oddly enough people are nicer and much more considerate (some not all) which is a perk I'm ok with

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I feel it necessary to point out that Chinas 'rise' that tc is glorifying was based almost entirely off of catering to the United States. Free trade allowed China to lure greedy corporations over there so they could build factories and hire poor, desperate Chinese people at a fraction of what an American would demand to do the same work. They also neatly bypassed any kind of OSHA guidelines for a safe work environment, unions representing workers rights, child labor laws. Pretty much you name it China didnt give a fuck and allowed its citizens to be exploited so they could suck in that business and grow. Then free trade let the fucks who closed factories and laid off Americans turn around and sell cheap shit back to them for nothing. There was literally no reason not to do this in business outside of a sense of nationalism or patriotism, which globalists generally dont like.

China didnt invent a superior system. They have nationalist leaders who were thinking long term and made smart moves to exploit American elites naivete and greed. The success of the United States republic elevated the entire world into new standards of living never thought possible. China copied everything we did, literally steals our technology innovations and secrets, and then uses their new power to dominate that corner of the world and their own citizens. If you think China will be a better hegemon than the United States was, i think you are wrong. And the main thing that gets me is those fucking wars in the middle east that completely eroded our credibility as an agent of peace and freedom. Now millions of people are more free than they were under Saddam for example, or under threat of Islamic terror, but you cant deny the thousands of innocent casualties of war and the cost and consider it was not worth it for us as a nation.

Tldr ; fuck China, theyd be nothing without the US. Just a commie cesspool. American leadership failed us because they took this country for granted and our system atm rewards greedy narcissists who destroyed it from the inside. But if you think totalitarianism is better, i recommend you go try living in it.

Keith_Valentine posted...

There was literally no reason not to do this in business outside of a sense of nationalism or patriotism, which globalists generally dont like.

Why are you using "globalist" when you mean "capitalist?"

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Intro2Logic posted...

Why are you using "globalist" when you mean "capitalist?"

I used the word i meant. Capitalists can still be patriotic and loyal towards their nation. In general globalists seek to dissolve national borders and sovereignty and unite the world under one order with the superrich and powerful being at the top. I dont like that. Theres such a massive difference its not even comparable. Got that?

shockthemonkey posted...

lmao

Theres the ol shock special. Stimulating content as usual.

shockthemonkey posted...

I know youre very high strung but some of us come here to laugh

Sure shock. Laugh, troll, attempt to belittle those you disagree with, passive aggressive cyber bullying. We all have fun in different ways. ^_^

This topic did not deserve responses
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Keith_Valentine posted...

Capitalists can still be patriotic and loyal towards their nation

Not if the alternative would make their company more money.

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Intro2Logic posted...

Not if the alternative would make their company more money.

So youre saying all capitalists own companies?

And no one that is capitalist and owns a company would ever keep their business and those jobs in their preferred country, even at a net loss of potential revenue, because they care about their countrymen(and women ofc) and want to help them succeed? Plus stimulate their local economies.

UnholyMudcrab posted...

This topic did not deserve responses

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UnholyMudcrab posted...

This topic did not deserve responses

Except one:

Don't forget the Tiananmen Square Massacre of June 4, 1989.

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Remember remember the 5th of November, the gunpowder treason and plot.

I can think of no reason the gunpowder treason should ever be forgot.

yes because people just want the benefit of a democracy but not any of the responsibility

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