Current Events > Surprise, surprise. Trump's death estimates are fake news, no basis in reality

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Resaix 04/03/20 10:43:24 AM #1:	https://www.washingtonpost.com./health/2020/04/02/experts-trumps-advisers-doubt-white-houses-240000-coronavirus-deaths-estimate/ Experts and his own advisers believe he pretty much pulled the numbers from his ass <cite>Resaix posted [p:936703983] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>https://www.washingtonpost.com./health/2020/04/02/experts-trumps-advisers-doubt-white-houses-240000-coronavirus-deaths-estimate/ Experts and his own advisers believe he pretty much pulled the numbers from his ass </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BuckVanHammer 04/03/20 10:44:09 AM #2:	eh he got them somewhere, did fox throw that out there sometime? --- Minimal, yet feature rich. <cite>BuckVanHammer posted [p:936704008] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>eh he got them somewhere, did fox throw that out there sometime? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
treewojima 04/03/20 10:44:30 AM #3:	Ew, paywall <cite>treewojima posted [p:936704026] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>Ew, paywall</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Resaix 04/03/20 10:45:03 AM #4:	treewojima posted... Ew, paywall Use the period trick. Actually let me edit the first post. Should work fine now <cite>Resaix posted [p:936704045] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>treewojima posted... </cite> <quote>Ew, paywall</quote>Use the period trick. Actually let me edit the first post. Should work fine now </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 04/03/20 10:57:25 AM #5:	BuckVanHammer posted... eh he got them somewhere, did fox throw that out there sometime? It actually says in the article: At a news briefing Sunday, Birx explained the process this way: Her task force initially reviewed the work of 12 models. Then we went back to the drawing board over the last week or two, and worked from the ground up, utilizing actual reporting of cases, Birx said. Its the way we built the HIV model, the TB model, the malaria model. And when we finished, the other group that was working in parallel which we didnt know about, referring to the IHME group. According to wikipedia, Deborah Birx: Deborah Leah Birx is an American physician and diplomat who specializes in HIV/AIDS immunology, vaccine research, and global health. As of March 2020, Birx serves as the Coronavirus Response Coordinator for the White House Coronavirus Task Force The primary issue seems to be that without the underlying data they can't tell if the estimates are accurate, because a roll-up figure doesn't tell you things like "under what period of time" and "what assumptions are you making about isolation behavior", but to quote the article again: The experts said they dont challenge the numbers validity but that they dont know how the White House arrived at them. Which conflicts with Dr Fauci's take that all the models made by everyone are shit: At a task force meeting this week, according to two officials with direct knowledge of it, Anthony S. Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told others there are too many variables at play in the pandemic to make the models reliable: Ive looked at all the models. Ive spent a lot of time on the models. They dont tell you anything. You cant really rely upon models. The article also takes a stab at which models might have been the most influential in coming up with the WH numbers: The IHME model initially estimated deaths through this summer would total 38,000 to 162,000 a lower projection than many others and beneath the White Houses own estimate. But because of its lower figure and Birxs comments, experts believe it to be a main source for the White Houses best-case scenario of 100,000 to 240,000 deaths. Meanwhile, the White House appeared to rely on Imperial College for its worst-case scenario. That study estimated as many as 2.2 million U.S. deaths if no action was taken, 1.1 million deaths if moderate mitigation strategies were adopted, and an unspecified number if drastic measures were taken. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:936704579] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>BuckVanHammer posted... </cite> <quote>eh he got them somewhere, did fox throw that out there sometime?</quote> It actually says in the article: <quote>At a news briefing Sunday, Birx explained the process this way: Her task force initially reviewed the work of 12 models. Then we went back to the drawing board over the last week or two, and worked from the ground up, utilizing actual reporting of cases, Birx said. Its the way we built the HIV model, the TB model, the malaria model. And when we finished, the other group that was working in parallel which we didnt know about, referring to the IHME group.</quote> According to wikipedia, Deborah Birx: <quote>Deborah Leah Birx is an American physician and diplomat who specializes in HIV/AIDS immunology, vaccine research, and global health. As of March 2020, Birx serves as the Coronavirus Response Coordinator for the White House Coronavirus Task Force</quote> The primary issue seems to be that without the underlying data they can't tell if the estimates are accurate, because a roll-up figure doesn't tell you things like "under what period of time" and "what assumptions are you making about isolation behavior", but to quote the article again: <quote>The experts said they dont challenge the numbers validity but that they dont know how the White House arrived at them.</quote> Which conflicts with Dr Fauci's take that all the models made by everyone are shit: <quote>At a task force meeting this week, according to two officials with direct knowledge of it, Anthony S. Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told others there are too many variables at play in the pandemic to make the models reliable: Ive looked at all the models. Ive spent a lot of time on the models. They dont tell you anything. You cant really rely upon models.</quote> The article also takes a stab at which models might have been the most influential in coming up with the WH numbers: <quote>The IHME model initially estimated deaths through this summer would total 38,000 to 162,000 a lower projection than many others and beneath the White Houses own estimate. But because of its lower figure and Birxs comments, experts believe it to be a main source for the White Houses best-case scenario of 100,000 to 240,000 deaths. Meanwhile, the White House appeared to rely on Imperial College for its worst-case scenario. That study estimated as many as 2.2 million U.S. deaths if no action was taken, 1.1 million deaths if moderate mitigation strategies were adopted, and an unspecified number if drastic measures were taken.</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tired-Insomniac 04/03/20 10:59:02 AM #6:	So...are we thinking more deaths? Less deaths? I thought Fauci said 82,000 by August at one point but could be mixing that up with something. I figured the 100k-240k estimate for the whole pandemic was based on the 82k by August. --- "I like turtles" <cite>Tired-Insomniac posted [p:936704665] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>So...are we thinking more deaths? Less deaths? I thought Fauci said 82,000 by August at one point but could be mixing that up with something. I figured the 100k-240k estimate for the whole pandemic was based on the 82k by August. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ScazarMeltex 04/03/20 11:01:19 AM #7:	I think Fauci's primary issue with the models is that in order for a model to be correct it has to take into account all data. We are doing such a shitty job with testing that it's impossible to have a realistic idea of how many cases we have and so any model we might build is flawed. --- "If you wish to converse with me define your terms" Voltaire <cite>ScazarMeltex posted [p:936704763] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>I think Fauci's primary issue with the models is that in order for a model to be correct it has to take into account all data. We are doing such a shitty job with testing that it's impossible to have a realistic idea of how many cases we have and so any model we might build is flawed. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 04/03/20 11:03:16 AM #8:	ScazarMeltex posted... I think Fauci's primary issue with the models is that in order for a model to be correct it has to take into account all data. We are doing such a shitty job with testing that it's impossible to have a realistic idea of how many cases we have and so any model we might build is flawed. The US has done more absolute testing than any other country at this point. The testing "per million" is lower than Germany, Italy, and SK but higher than anywhere else as well. Source: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:936704844] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>ScazarMeltex posted... </cite> <quote>I think Fauci's primary issue with the models is that in order for a model to be correct it has to take into account all data. We are doing such a shitty job with testing that it's impossible to have a realistic idea of how many cases we have and so any model we might build is flawed.</quote> The US has done more absolute testing than any other country at this point. The testing "per million" is lower than Germany, Italy, and SK but higher than anywhere else as well. Source: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ScazarMeltex 04/03/20 11:05:57 AM #9:	s0nicfan posted... The US has done more absolute testing than any other country at this point. The testing "per million" is lower than Germany, Italy, and SK but higher than anywhere else as well. Source: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing That's fine, but even then we still have the data we need to build an accurate model from where we are. --- "If you wish to converse with me define your terms" Voltaire <cite>ScazarMeltex posted [p:936704964] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>s0nicfan posted... </cite> <quote>The US has done more absolute testing than any other country at this point. The testing "per million" is lower than Germany, Italy, and SK but higher than anywhere else as well. Source: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing</quote>That's fine, but even then we still have the data we need to build an accurate model from where we are. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Sackgurl 04/03/20 11:10:10 AM #11:	s0nicfan posted... The US has done more absolute testing than any other country at this point. The testing "per million" is lower than Germany, Italy, and SK but higher than anywhere else as well. Source: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing unfortunately testing is an early phase solution to bending the curve and we're not in the early phase of the outbreak --- LittleBigPlanet is like merging dress-up with a real game. <cite>Sackgurl posted [p:936705148] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>s0nicfan posted... </cite> <quote>The US has done more absolute testing than any other country at this point. The testing "per million" is lower than Germany, Italy, and SK but higher than anywhere else as well. Source: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing</quote> unfortunately testing is an early phase solution to bending the curve and we're not in the early phase of the outbreak </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Resaix 04/03/20 11:10:38 AM #12:	GregShmedley posted... Trump, three weeks ago: Seriously, how does anyone still support this moron? <cite>Resaix posted [p:936705174] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>GregShmedley posted... </cite> <quote>Trump, three weeks ago: </quote>Seriously, how does anyone still support this moron? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KINDERFELD 04/03/20 11:14:10 AM #13:	I'm truly fed up with the liberal media's agender to do everything in their power to capitalize on the political benefit they can gain from Trump's handling of this pandemic. Its long mutated into full out dishonest reporting and journalists doing their utmost best to make Tump seem even more incompetent than he already is. --- the polyfilla way look strong in the weakness of the gaps <cite>KINDERFELD posted [p:936705346] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>I'm truly fed up with the liberal media's agender to do everything in their power to capitalize on the political benefit they can gain from Trump's handling of this pandemic. Its long mutated into full out dishonest reporting and journalists doing their utmost best to make Tump seem even more incompetent than he already is. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andel 04/03/20 11:17:33 AM #14:	KINDERFELD posted... I'm truly fed up with the liberal media's agender to do everything in their power to capitalize on the political benefit they can gain from Trump's handling this pandemic. Its long mutated into full out dishonest reporting and journalists doing their utmost best to make Tump seem even more incompetent than he already is. if anything the media makes looks trump far more competent than he is. trump seems to mishandle every possible situation and lies about everything big and small. there is no defense of anything trump is doing and at this point shilling for him is just causing more and more deaths --- I am thinking about just walking into the river now that Megaupload is gone and condoms are in porn.-Fubonis <cite>andel posted [p:936705489] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>KINDERFELD posted... </cite> <quote>I'm truly fed up with the liberal media's agender to do everything in their power to capitalize on the political benefit they can gain from Trump's handling this pandemic. Its long mutated into full out dishonest reporting and journalists doing their utmost best to make Tump seem even more incompetent than he already is.</quote> if anything the media makes looks trump far more competent than he is. trump seems to mishandle every possible situation and lies about everything big and small. there is no defense of anything trump is doing and at this point shilling for him is just causing more and more deaths </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tired-Insomniac 04/03/20 11:18:56 AM #15:	KINDERFELD posted... I'm truly fed up with the liberal media's agender to do everything in their power to capitalize on the political benefit they can gain from Trump's handling of this pandemic. Its long mutated into full out dishonest reporting and journalists doing their utmost best to make Tump seem even more incompetent than he already is. "tHe LiBeRaL mEdIa" --- "I like turtles" <cite>Tired-Insomniac posted [p:936705557] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>KINDERFELD posted... </cite> <quote>I'm truly fed up with the liberal media's agender to do everything in their power to capitalize on the political benefit they can gain from Trump's handling of this pandemic. Its long mutated into full out dishonest reporting and journalists doing their utmost best to make Tump seem even more incompetent than he already is.</quote> "tHe LiBeRaL mEdIa" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KINDERFELD 04/03/20 11:28:29 AM #16:	Tired-Insomniac posted... "tHe LiBeRaL mEdIa" As a liberal myself, I'm truly saddened that I have to use that term. In a time of global crisis, we should be supporting or leaders. If we have an incompetent one, help prop him up and make him stronger because if he fails, WE fail. The reality is, Trump has the responsibility to keep our fears down, while figuring out how to fight a virus we're still literally learning about on a day-to-day basis. He passed an epic stimulus bill in near no time flat. That's something I never thought his administration would do so expediently. Give credit where it is due. The implementation of this stimulus bill and getting actually money into the hands of Americans is another story. --- the polyfilla way look strong in the weakness of the gaps <cite>KINDERFELD posted [p:936705979] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>Tired-Insomniac posted... </cite> <quote>"tHe LiBeRaL mEdIa"</quote> As a liberal myself, I'm truly saddened that I have to use that term. In a time of global crisis, we should be supporting or leaders. If we have an incompetent one, help prop him up and make him stronger because if he fails, WE fail. The reality is, Trump has the responsibility to keep our fears down, while figuring out how to fight a virus we're still literally learning about on a day-to-day basis. He passed an epic stimulus bill in near no time flat. That's something I never thought his administration would do so expediently. Give credit where it is due. The implementation of this stimulus bill and getting actually money into the hands of Americans is another story. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
burns112233 04/03/20 11:29:53 AM #17:	I'm not a Trump fan but the media is stupid with their damn agendas on making Trump look bad. The New York Times a few days ago https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/health/coronavirus-chloroquine-trump.html and now the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-malaria.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage First Trump is stupid for suggesting the malaria drug could help COVID-19 patients. Now, well it seems the malaria drug can help some patients. I don't need bullshit articles. Just state the facts instead of rushing to make Trump look bad. <cite>burns112233 posted [p:936706039] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>I'm not a Trump fan but the media is stupid with their damn agendas on making Trump look bad. The New York Times a few days ago https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/health/coronavirus-chloroquine-trump.html and now the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-malaria.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage First Trump is stupid for suggesting the malaria drug could help COVID-19 patients. Now, well it seems the malaria drug can help some patients. I don't need bullshit articles. Just state the facts instead of rushing to make Trump look bad. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Resaix 04/03/20 11:30:30 AM #18:	KINDERFELD posted... He passed an epic stimulus bill in near no time flat. That's something I never thought his administration would do so expediently. Give credit where it is due. I give credit to Congress. Trump had next to nothing to do with that. It was unanimously passed in congress <cite>Resaix posted [p:936706069] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>KINDERFELD posted... </cite> <quote>He passed an epic stimulus bill in near no time flat. That's something I never thought his administration would do so expediently. Give credit where it is due.</quote>I give credit to Congress. Trump had next to nothing to do with that. It was unanimously passed in congress </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KINDERFELD 04/03/20 11:33:17 AM #19:	Resaix posted... I give credit to Congress. Trump had next to nothing to do with that. It was unanimously passed in congress Sadly he had to sign it into law. You do know he has the power to veto bills right? --- the polyfilla way look strong in the weakness of the gaps <cite>KINDERFELD posted [p:936706188] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>Resaix posted... </cite> <quote>I give credit to Congress. Trump had next to nothing to do with that. It was unanimously passed in congress</quote> Sadly he had to sign it into law. You do know he has the power to veto bills right? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Resaix 04/03/20 11:33:59 AM #20:	KINDERFELD posted... Sadly he had to sign it into law. You do know he has the power to veto bills right? OK. He gets credit for signing his name and not vetoing it? <cite>Resaix posted [p:936706214] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>KINDERFELD posted... </cite> <quote>Sadly he had to sign it into law. You do know he has the power to veto bills right?</quote>OK. He gets credit for signing his name and not vetoing it? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Thompson 04/03/20 11:37:38 AM #21:	KINDERFELD posted... Trump has the responsibility to keep our fears down It'd be nice if he took any responsiblity at all. He has said he doesn't. So, well... that's fantastic... --- Sigs are rather pointless, except if it's to showcase animation and images. <cite>Thompson posted [p:936706380] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>KINDERFELD posted... </cite> <quote>Trump has the responsibility to keep our fears down</quote>It'd be nice if he took any responsiblity at all. He has said he doesn't. So, well... that's fantastic... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andel 04/03/20 11:39:38 AM #22:	KINDERFELD posted... Sadly he had to sign it into law. You do know he has the power to veto bills right? he couldn't have vetoed that bill. also no one is buying that you are on the left when you are bending over backwards to shill for trump --- I am thinking about just walking into the river now that Megaupload is gone and condoms are in porn.-Fubonis <cite>andel posted [p:936706473] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>KINDERFELD posted... </cite> <quote>Sadly he had to sign it into law. You do know he has the power to veto bills right?</quote> he couldn't have vetoed that bill. also no one is buying that you are on the left when you are bending over backwards to shill for trump </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KINDERFELD 04/03/20 11:53:18 AM #23:	Resaix posted... OK. He gets credit for signing his name and not vetoing it? He gets credit for not dragging out the signing of the bill and yes, not vetoing it too. andel posted... he couldn't have vetoed that bill. also no one is buying that you are on the left when you are bending over backwards to shill for trump He definitely could have vetoed the bill but it would have significantly hurt his approval rating as we're in the midst of a pandemic. Also, I'm not a fan of Trump in the least however, I'm not a hypocrite either. Once you weigh all the facts, you'll see that initially he handled this pandemic poorly by calling it a liberal hoax. However, he has then gotten a lot more serious since that. Its his job to give us hope even if the reality he's privy to says we should feel otherwise. When you flick your tv to a channel so you can tune out the stressful coronavirus news stories, people like Trump and his administration are tasked with analyzing information from a host of governmental agencies and coming up with the right next move to make in reducing and containing a virus the world still doesn't properly understand. --- the polyfilla way look strong in the weakness of the gaps <cite>KINDERFELD posted [p:936707126] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>Resaix posted... </cite> <quote>OK. He gets credit for signing his name and not vetoing it?</quote> He gets credit for not dragging out the signing of the bill and yes, not vetoing it too. andel posted... </cite> <quote>he couldn't have vetoed that bill. also no one is buying that you are on the left when you are bending over backwards to shill for trump</quote> He definitely could have vetoed the bill but it would have significantly hurt his approval rating as we're in the midst of a pandemic. Also, I'm not a fan of Trump in the least however, I'm not a hypocrite either. Once you weigh all the facts, you'll see that initially he handled this pandemic poorly by calling it a liberal hoax. However, he has then gotten a lot more serious since that. Its his job to give us hope even if the reality he's privy to says we should feel otherwise. When you flick your tv to a channel so you can tune out the stressful coronavirus news stories, people like Trump and his administration are tasked with analyzing information from a host of governmental agencies and coming up with the right next move to make in reducing and containing a virus the world still doesn't properly understand. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andel 04/03/20 11:56:08 AM #24:	trump could not veto this, it was a veto proof vote. also the stimulus bill sucks due to moscow mitch and the gop making it more of a big corporate bailout than a help to everyday americans and trump has definitely started taking this pandemic more seriously, the problem is that he is still acting woefully incompetent and majorly fucking up and his initial response to it has caused unimaginable lives and human suffering --- I am thinking about just walking into the river now that Megaupload is gone and condoms are in porn.-Fubonis <cite>andel posted [p:936707241] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>trump could not veto this, it was a veto proof vote. also the stimulus bill sucks due to moscow mitch and the gop making it more of a big corporate bailout than a help to everyday americans and trump has definitely started taking this pandemic more seriously, the problem is that he is still acting woefully incompetent and majorly fucking up and his initial response to it has caused unimaginable lives and human suffering </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ScazarMeltex 04/03/20 11:58:03 AM #25:	KINDERFELD posted... He gets credit for not dragging out the signing of the bill and yes, not vetoing it too. He definitely could have vetoed the bill but it would have significantly hurt his approval rating as we're in the midst of a pandemic. Also, I'm not a fan of Trump in the least however, I'm not a hypocrite either. Once you weigh all the facts, you'll see that initially he handled this pandemic poorly by calling it a liberal hoax. However, he has then gotten a lot more serious since that. Its his job to give us hope even if the reality he's privy to says we should feel otherwise. When you flick your tv to a channel so you can tune out the stressful coronavirus news stories, people like Trump and his administration are tasked with analyzing information from a host of governmental agencies and coming up with the right next move to make in reducing and containing a virus the world still doesn't properly understand. He got so serious that he put the guy who botched Indiana's outbreak of HIV in charge of handling it and then gave his wildly unqualified son in law the job of expanding test access, ramping up industry production of needed medical supplies, and figuring out how to get those supplies to key locations. --- "If you wish to converse with me define your terms" Voltaire <cite>ScazarMeltex posted [p:936707328] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>KINDERFELD posted... </cite> <quote>He gets credit for not dragging out the signing of the bill and yes, not vetoing it too. He definitely could have vetoed the bill but it would have significantly hurt his approval rating as we're in the midst of a pandemic. Also, I'm not a fan of Trump in the least however, I'm not a hypocrite either. Once you weigh all the facts, you'll see that initially he handled this pandemic poorly by calling it a liberal hoax. However, he has then gotten a lot more serious since that. Its his job to give us hope even if the reality he's privy to says we should feel otherwise. When you flick your tv to a channel so you can tune out the stressful coronavirus news stories, people like Trump and his administration are tasked with analyzing information from a host of governmental agencies and coming up with the right next move to make in reducing and containing a virus the world still doesn't properly understand.</quote>He got so serious that he put the guy who botched Indiana's outbreak of HIV in charge of handling it and then gave his wildly unqualified son in law the job of expanding test access, ramping up industry production of needed medical supplies, and figuring out how to get those supplies to key locations. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KINDERFELD 04/03/20 12:05:48 PM #26:	ScazarMeltex posted... He got so serious that he put the guy who botched Indiana's outbreak of HIV in charge of handling it and then gave his wildly unqualified son in law the job of expanding test access, ramping up industry production of needed medical supplies, and figuring out how to get those supplies to key locations. Oh, so he's actually now taking the pandemic seriously and doing something to help ALL Americans. This type of "damn if you do; damn if you don't" attitude is exactly what's going to ensure Trump wins the 2021 presidential election. --- the polyfilla way look strong in the weakness of the gaps <cite>KINDERFELD posted [p:936707701] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>ScazarMeltex posted... </cite> <quote>He got so serious that he put the guy who botched Indiana's outbreak of HIV in charge of handling it and then gave his wildly unqualified son in law the job of expanding test access, ramping up industry production of needed medical supplies, and figuring out how to get those supplies to key locations.</quote> Oh, so he's actually now taking the pandemic seriously and doing something to help ALL Americans. This type of "damn if you do; damn if you don't" attitude is exactly what's going to ensure Trump wins the 2021 presidential election. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Yazarogi 04/03/20 12:06:03 PM #27:	Anyone saying "I'm not a trump fan but..." Is a trump voter, don't listen to them. Bullshitters. --- "There will be nothing to show that we were ever here... but stardust." - Pinbacker <cite>Yazarogi posted [p:936707712] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>Anyone saying "I'm not a trump fan but..." Is a trump voter, don't listen to them. Bullshitters. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Resaix 04/03/20 12:06:39 PM #28:	KINDERFELD posted... Oh, so he's actually now taking the pandemic seriously and doing something to help ALL Americans. What exactly is he doing to help? He's dropping the ball every step of the way <cite>Resaix posted [p:936707734] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>KINDERFELD posted... </cite> <quote>Oh, so he's actually now taking the pandemic seriously and doing something to help ALL Americans.</quote>What exactly is he doing to help? He's dropping the ball every step of the way </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CADE FOSTER 04/03/20 12:07:15 PM #29:	Yazarogi posted... Anyone saying "I'm not a trump fan but..." Is a trump voter, don't listen to them. Bullshitters. yep <cite>CADE FOSTER posted [p:936707760] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>Yazarogi posted...</cite> <quote>Anyone saying "I'm not a trump fan but..." Is a trump voter, don't listen to them. Bullshitters. </quote> yep</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andel 04/03/20 12:07:33 PM #30:	KINDERFELD posted... Oh, so he's actually now taking the pandemic seriously and doing something to help ALL Americans. This type of "damn if you do; damn if you don't" attitude is exactly what's going to ensure Trump wins the 2021 presidential election. the above post is just desperate and sad. trump has yet to do a single thing to help all americans and his chances of winning in 2020 are underwater more than they have ever been, and he was unlikely to beat biden even before mishandling corona --- I am thinking about just walking into the river now that Megaupload is gone and condoms are in porn.-Fubonis <cite>andel posted [p:936707778] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>KINDERFELD posted... </cite> <quote>Oh, so he's actually now taking the pandemic seriously and doing something to help ALL Americans. This type of "damn if you do; damn if you don't" attitude is exactly what's going to ensure Trump wins the 2021 presidential election.</quote> the above post is just desperate and sad. trump has yet to do a single thing to help all americans and his chances of winning in 2020 are underwater more than they have ever been, and he was unlikely to beat biden even before mishandling corona </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Smashingpmkns 04/03/20 12:11:55 PM #31:	Guys can we please not turn a public health crisis and people dying due to political incompetence into a political thing? Somehow this makes sense! --- Clean Butt Crew <cite>Smashingpmkns posted [p:936708007] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>Guys can we please not turn a public health crisis and people dying due to political incompetence into a political thing? Somehow this makes sense!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ScazarMeltex 04/03/20 12:12:00 PM #32:	KINDERFELD posted... Oh, so he's actually now taking the pandemic seriously and doing something to help ALL Americans. This type of "damn if you do; damn if you don't" attitude is exactly what's going to ensure Trump wins the 2021 presidential election. No it's not damned if you do, damned it you don't. Put competent people in charge of shit. The problem is all of the competent people bailed early on in this administration. Say "I fucked up at the start of this, but now we are really going to dig deep and try save as many people as we can", instead of "I take no responsibility". In short, be a good leader., but you know, and I know that he is incapable of that. So he deserves every bit of shit he gets for this and more. --- "If you wish to converse with me define your terms" Voltaire <cite>ScazarMeltex posted [p:936708011] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>KINDERFELD posted... </cite> <quote>Oh, so he's actually now taking the pandemic seriously and doing something to help ALL Americans. This type of "damn if you do; damn if you don't" attitude is exactly what's going to ensure Trump wins the 2021 presidential election.</quote>No it's not damned if you do, damned it you don't. Put competent people in charge of shit. The problem is all of the competent people bailed early on in this administration. Say "I fucked up at the start of this, but now we are really going to dig deep and try save as many people as we can", instead of "I take no responsibility". In short, be a good leader., but you know, and I know that he is incapable of that. So he deserves every bit of shit he gets for this and more. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DarkRoast 04/03/20 12:22:22 PM #33:	With deaths doubling every 2-3 days, we're easily on target to at least surpass 100k unless something absolutely major disrupts the course. Note that April 2nd's death tally isn't fully reported yet. We're surging past 1,000 deaths per day. Reasonable estimates are 2,500 deaths/day by April 13 --- Well allons-y, Alonso! <cite>DarkRoast posted [p:936708500] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>With deaths doubling every 2-3 days, we're easily on target to at least surpass 100k unless something absolutely major disrupts the course. Note that April 2nd's death tally isn't fully reported yet. We're surging past 1,000 deaths per day. Reasonable estimates are 2,500 deaths/day by April 13 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KINDERFELD 04/03/20 12:33:36 PM #34:	Resaix posted... What exactly is he doing to help? He's dropping the ball every step of the way He's literally on tv multiple times giving us updates. Yes he still acts like a manchild, however, he literally ran his first presidential campaign acting the same way and won. So he's been consistent in that aspect. Medical experts realistically don't understand this virus properly and are figuring it out day by day just like we are. This is why social distancing and quarantines have been enforced. We limit the transmission to the point of containment and hunker down till we have a vaccine. Trump is tasked with maintaining social civility in a time where the global economic is at a near total standstill. I know its his job and responsibility because he ran for that office, but he's still a human like you and I and have loved ones he's concerned about just like you and I, while trying to manage dealing with this pandemic. This is a time for all Americans to set aside our political differences and work together. Its sad to see these reporters take jabs at the man when the world is bracing from this. He even explained that China was withholding and not being honest about the information they're been giving the world about coronavirus. I personally think that he was in the right for calling the coronavirus the Chinese Flu. China should bear the brunt of the responsibility since the virus originated there and instead of them get word out ahead to save lives globally, the lie about their death toll and without scientific knowledge on the virus. Anyway, the news outlets didn't even care to entertain that information that Trump gave. Instead they spun it and said he was making Asians in America unsafe. The coronavirus pandemic is 100% real however, do not be so biased that you cannot clearly see how hellbent liberal media outlets are in making Trump seem like he's fucking up the handling of the pandemic. Look at it this way, have those liberal media outlets EVER praised or acknowledged anything good that Trump has done?? --- the polyfilla way look strong in the weakness of the gaps <cite>KINDERFELD posted [p:936709104] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>Resaix posted... </cite> <quote>What exactly is he doing to help? He's dropping the ball every step of the way</quote> He's literally on tv multiple times giving us updates. Yes he still acts like a manchild, however, he literally ran his first presidential campaign acting the same way and won. So he's been consistent in that aspect. Medical experts realistically don't understand this virus properly and are figuring it out day by day just like we are. This is why social distancing and quarantines have been enforced. We limit the transmission to the point of containment and hunker down till we have a vaccine. Trump is tasked with maintaining social civility in a time where the global economic is at a near total standstill. I know its his job and responsibility because he ran for that office, but he's still a human like you and I and have loved ones he's concerned about just like you and I, while trying to manage dealing with this pandemic. This is a time for all Americans to set aside our political differences and work together. Its sad to see these reporters take jabs at the man when the world is bracing from this. He even explained that China was withholding and not being honest about the information they're been giving the world about coronavirus. I personally think that he was in the right for calling the coronavirus the Chinese Flu. China should bear the brunt of the responsibility since the virus originated there and instead of them get word out ahead to save lives globally, the lie about their death toll and without scientific knowledge on the virus. Anyway, the news outlets didn't even care to entertain that information that Trump gave. Instead they spun it and said he was making Asians in America unsafe. The coronavirus pandemic is 100% real however, do not be so biased that you cannot clearly see how hellbent liberal media outlets are in making Trump seem like he's fucking up the handling of the pandemic. Look at it this way, have those liberal media outlets EVER praised or acknowledged anything good that Trump has done?? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KINDERFELD 04/03/20 12:47:52 PM #35:	ScazarMeltex posted... No it's not damned if you do, damned it you don't. Put competent people in charge of shit. The problem is all of the competent people bailed early on in this administration. Say "I fucked up at the start of this, but now we are really going to dig deep and try save as many people as we can", instead of "I take no responsibility". In short, be a good leader., but you know, and I know that he is incapable of that. So he deserves every bit of shit he gets for this and more. Like it or not, many people are going to die from coronavirus and coronavirus related illnesses. You're free to fall for the ploy of the media as you can see, they're still mentally in a presidential election year. The media, sadly, can control the perception and fears of near 2/3 of the country. We know the media outlets are overwhelmingly liberal and greatly dislike Trump. We also know that this year the potential for a presidential election is still possible. I just hope the media does not in an attempt to trash Trump, spread misleading information that results in people dying. As far as him appointing competent people, there are laws that prohibit nepotism in the white house. For some strange reason, since Trump came into office, laws and rules don't apply to him... --- the polyfilla way look strong in the weakness of the gaps <cite>KINDERFELD posted [p:936709846] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>ScazarMeltex posted... </cite> <quote>No it's not damned if you do, damned it you don't. Put competent people in charge of shit. The problem is all of the competent people bailed early on in this administration. Say "I fucked up at the start of this, but now we are really going to dig deep and try save as many people as we can", instead of "I take no responsibility". In short, be a good leader., but you know, and I know that he is incapable of that. So he deserves every bit of shit he gets for this and more.</quote> Like it or not, many people are going to die from coronavirus and coronavirus related illnesses. You're free to fall for the ploy of the media as you can see, they're still mentally in a presidential election year. The media, sadly, can control the perception and fears of near 2/3 of the country. We know the media outlets are overwhelmingly liberal and greatly dislike Trump. We also know that this year the potential for a presidential election is still possible. I just hope the media does not in an attempt to trash Trump, spread misleading information that results in people dying. As far as him appointing competent people, there are laws that prohibit nepotism in the white house. For some strange reason, since Trump came into office, laws and rules don't apply to him... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Phantom_Nook 04/03/20 12:50:35 PM #36:	KINDERFELD posted... In a time of global crisis, we should be supporting or leaders. if they're incompetent and useless in a time of global crisis, we should be allowed to call them out on it without cultists whining about the mean ol' libs. --- Not posted with GameRaven 3.5.2 <cite>Phantom_Nook posted [p:936709987] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>KINDERFELD posted... </cite> <quote>In a time of global crisis, we should be supporting or leaders.</quote>if they're incompetent and useless in a time of global crisis, we should be allowed to call them out on it without cultists whining about the mean ol' libs. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Resaix 04/03/20 12:51:23 PM #37:	KINDERFELD posted... I just hope the media does not in an attempt to trash Trump, spread misleading information that results in people dying. The media has yet to do this. Trump however, has spread a large amount of misleading info that has resulted in deaths. <cite>Resaix posted [p:936710027] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>KINDERFELD posted... </cite> <quote>I just hope the media does not in an attempt to trash Trump, spread misleading information that results in people dying.</quote>The media has yet to do this. Trump however, has spread a large amount of misleading info that has resulted in deaths. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KINDERFELD 04/03/20 1:00:55 PM #38:	Phantom_Nook posted... if they're incompetent and useless in a time of global crisis, we should be allowed to call them out on it without cultists whining about the mean ol' libs. I'm not a cultist and only one would be unable to see how blatantly biased the media has been against Trump during this pandemic. We live in America where we're free to denigrate a sitting president. I hope its of some benefit when it comes to saving lives from the coronavirus. --- the polyfilla way look strong in the weakness of the gaps <cite>KINDERFELD posted [p:936710537] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>Phantom_Nook posted... </cite> <quote>if they're incompetent and useless in a time of global crisis, we should be allowed to call them out on it without cultists whining about the mean ol' libs.</quote> I'm not a cultist and only one would be unable to see how blatantly biased the media has been against Trump during this pandemic. We live in America where we're free to denigrate a sitting president. I hope its of some benefit when it comes to saving lives from the coronavirus. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JuanCarlos1 04/03/20 1:04:26 PM #39:	I thought 100k seems like an honest conservative estimate? Caue if its much more he just opened himself to be accused of not doing a good job. --- Mas dicen, que en las dimensiones de nuestro ser... hay muchos detalles por conocer... <cite>JuanCarlos1 posted [p:936710721] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>I thought 100k seems like an honest conservative estimate? Caue if its much more he just opened himself to be accused of not doing a good job. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Romes187 04/03/20 1:05:59 PM #40:	I'm no trump fan but anyone that says I'm no trump fan is lying #logicalvictory <cite>Romes187 posted [p:936710793] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>I'm no trump fan but anyone that says I'm no trump fan is lying #logicalvictory </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Resaix 04/03/20 1:07:30 PM #41:	Romes187 posted... I'm no trump fan but anyone that says I'm no trump fan is lying #logicalvictory Why do you support Trump? How can you honestly say he's done a good job of handling this? <cite>Resaix posted [p:936710884] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>Romes187 posted... </cite> <quote>I'm no trump fan but anyone that says I'm no trump fan is lying #logicalvictory</quote>Why do you support Trump? How can you honestly say he's done a good job of handling this? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DarkRoast 04/03/20 1:09:14 PM #42:	The coronavirus pandemic is 100% real however, do not be so biased that you cannot clearly see how hellbent liberal media outlets are in making Trump seem like he's fucking up the handling of the pandemic. No offense, but I've literally been on the frontlines of this disaster and it's been a complete shit show. I was asking for testing in late February. The first test I had approved was on March 15, and the results came back March 25. Trump's tweets were absolutely asinine. In early March he straight-up stated that, even though health officials were calling for quarantine, "America needs to work" and that the flu kills way more people. There are GOP states that still haven't quarantined. It's horrible leadership. --- Well allons-y, Alonso! <cite>DarkRoast posted [p:936710970] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>The coronavirus pandemic is 100% real however, do not be so biased that you cannot clearly see how hellbent liberal media outlets are in making Trump seem like he's fucking up the handling of the pandemic. No offense, but I've literally been on the frontlines of this disaster and it's been a complete shit show. I was asking for testing in late February. The first test I had approved was on March 15, and the results came back March 25. Trump's tweets were absolutely asinine. In early March he straight-up stated that, even though health officials were calling for quarantine, "America needs to work" and that the flu kills way more people. There are GOP states that still haven't quarantined. It's horrible leadership. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Phantom_Nook 04/03/20 1:17:55 PM #43:	KINDERFELD posted... how blatantly biased the media has been against Trump during this pandemic. yeah man, they're supposed to suck his dick, not ask him softball questions! --- Not posted with GameRaven 3.5.2 <cite>Phantom_Nook posted [p:936711453] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>KINDERFELD posted... </cite> <quote>how blatantly biased the media has been against Trump during this pandemic.</quote>yeah man, they're supposed to suck his dick, not ask him softball questions! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KINDERFELD 04/03/20 1:42:57 PM #44:	DarkRoast posted... The coronavirus pandemic is 100% real however, do not be so biased that you cannot clearly see how hellbent liberal media outlets are in making Trump seem like he's fucking up the handling of the pandemic. No offense, but I've literally been on the frontlines of this disaster and it's been a complete shit show. I was asking for testing in late February. The first test I had approved was on March 15, and the results came back March 25. Trump's tweets were absolutely asinine. In early March he straight-up stated that, even though health officials were calling for quarantine, "America needs to work" and that the flu kills way more people. There are GOP states that still haven't quarantined. It's horrible leadership. You're on the frontlines in what way? There are more than 3 doctors and 4 nurses in my immediate family and though they greatly dislike Trump and admit that initially he messed up the handling of this pandemic, they agree that he's currently making all the right moves to contain the spread of the virus. What they all have been expressing overwhelmingly, is the fact that they too along with government experts are learning about this virus on a day to day basis which is why containment is imperative. No one is saying that Trump is handling this crisis flawlessly, however, at this point, he's now began to take the pandemic seriously and is making the right moves. --- the polyfilla way look strong in the weakness of the gaps <cite>KINDERFELD posted [p:936712784] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>DarkRoast posted... </cite> <quote>The coronavirus pandemic is 100% real however, do not be so biased that you cannot clearly see how hellbent liberal media outlets are in making Trump seem like he's fucking up the handling of the pandemic. No offense, but I've literally been on the frontlines of this disaster and it's been a complete shit show. I was asking for testing in late February. The first test I had approved was on March 15, and the results came back March 25. Trump's tweets were absolutely asinine. In early March he straight-up stated that, even though health officials were calling for quarantine, "America needs to work" and that the flu kills way more people. There are GOP states that still haven't quarantined. It's horrible leadership.</quote> You're on the frontlines in what way? There are more than 3 doctors and 4 nurses in my immediate family and though they greatly dislike Trump and admit that initially he messed up the handling of this pandemic, they agree that he's currently making all the right moves to contain the spread of the virus. What they all have been expressing overwhelmingly, is the fact that they too along with government experts are learning about this virus on a day to day basis which is why containment is imperative. No one is saying that Trump is handling this crisis flawlessly, however, at this point, he's now began to take the pandemic seriously and is making the right moves. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sariana21 04/03/20 1:56:16 PM #45:	Trump is desperately hoping that his numbers (what did he say? 240,000 deaths?) are too big and that the actual number of deaths will be closer to 100k. Then he will claim victory and say he stopped the virus from killing twice as many people. All without evidence or much basis in reality. And his supporters will believe him. That's assuming he gets lucky and the number of deaths DOES stay that low. --- ___ Sari, Mom to DS (07/04) and DD (01/08); Pronouns: she/her/hers <cite>Sariana21 posted [p:936713507] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>Trump is desperately hoping that his numbers (what did he say? 240,000 deaths?) are too big and that the actual number of deaths will be closer to 100k. Then he will claim victory and say he stopped the virus from killing twice as many people. All without evidence or much basis in reality. And his supporters will believe him. That's assuming he gets lucky and the number of deaths DOES stay that low. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Romes187 04/03/20 2:01:16 PM #46:	Resaix posted... Why do you support Trump? How can you honestly say he's done a good job of handling this? I do not support trump and do not think hes handling the situation well at all. i also hate stupid ass arguments like anyone who says x is y...especially when people saying X might be trying to inject nuance in their own argument <cite>Romes187 posted [p:936713823] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>Resaix posted... </cite> <quote>Why do you support Trump? How can you honestly say he's done a good job of handling this?</quote> I do not support trump and do not think hes handling the situation well at all. i also hate stupid ass arguments like anyone who says x is y...especially when people saying X might be trying to inject nuance in their own argument </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DarkRoast 04/03/20 2:43:13 PM #47:	KINDERFELD posted... You're on the frontlines in what way? There are more than 3 doctors and 4 nurses in my immediate family and though they greatly dislike Trump and admit that initially he messed up the handling of this pandemic, they agree that he's currently making all the right moves to contain the spread of the virus. What they all have been expressing overwhelmingly, is the fact that they too along with government experts are learning about this virus on a day to day basis which is why containment is imperative. No one is saying that Trump is handling this crisis flawlessly, however, at this point, he's now began to take the pandemic seriously and is making the right moves. The difference between making the right moves in the beginning and doing it now is literally 100,000+ deaths --- Well allons-y, Alonso! <cite>DarkRoast posted [p:936716115] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>KINDERFELD posted... </cite> <quote>You're on the frontlines in what way? There are more than 3 doctors and 4 nurses in my immediate family and though they greatly dislike Trump and admit that initially he messed up the handling of this pandemic, they agree that he's currently making all the right moves to contain the spread of the virus. What they all have been expressing overwhelmingly, is the fact that they too along with government experts are learning about this virus on a day to day basis which is why containment is imperative. No one is saying that Trump is handling this crisis flawlessly, however, at this point, he's now began to take the pandemic seriously and is making the right moves.</quote> The difference between making the right moves in the beginning and doing it now is literally 100,000+ deaths </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KINDERFELD 04/03/20 3:38:05 PM #48:	DarkRoast posted... The difference between making the right moves in the beginning and doing it now is literally 100,000+ deaths True, however, since you're on the frontlines, you should fully understand why bitching about something that you cannot go back an undo is quite unproductive, especially when Trump is currently, as in the present, doing the right things. --- the polyfilla way look strong in the weakness of the gaps <cite>KINDERFELD posted [p:936719036] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>DarkRoast posted... </cite> <quote>The difference between making the right moves in the beginning and doing it now is literally 100,000+ deaths</quote> True, however, since you're on the frontlines, you should fully understand why bitching about something that you cannot go back an undo is quite unproductive, especially when Trump is currently, as in the present, doing the right things. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lorenzo_2003 04/03/20 4:04:24 PM #49:	andel posted... if anything the media makes looks trump far more competent than he is. Lol, thats nonsense. The media is hammering Trump over this virus crisis. And thats fine because he fumbled the ball early and isnt doing a good job to recover it. But lets not get silly with the revisionist history. I mean look at the Washington Posts article that TC linked. They used the word mystified to describe the situation. Mystified, really? Thats a loaded word. Just say they dont know. Oh, wait, the Washington Post literally says the forecasters dont know in the very next paragraph. They (The Washington Post) knew what they were doing. --- ... <cite>Lorenzo_2003 posted [p:936720425] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>andel posted... </cite> <quote>if anything the media makes looks trump far more competent than he is.</quote> Lol, thats nonsense. The media is hammering Trump over this virus crisis. And thats fine because he fumbled the ball early and isnt doing a good job to recover it. But lets not get silly with the revisionist history. I mean look at the Washington Posts article that TC linked. They used the word mystified to describe the situation. Mystified, really? Thats a loaded word. Just say they dont know. Oh, wait, the Washington Post literally says the forecasters dont know in the very next paragraph. They (The Washington Post) knew what they were doing. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheLastHero 04/03/20 4:13:51 PM #50:	KINDERFELD posted... Oh, so he's actually now taking the pandemic seriously and doing something to help ALL Americans. This type of "damn if you do; damn if you don't" attitude is exactly what's going to ensure Trump wins the 2021 presidential election. You aren't a liberal. Dunno why you bothered even lying about that <cite>TheLastHero posted [p:936720923] in Surprise, ... [t:78537431]...</cite> <quote>KINDERFELD posted...</cite> <quote> Oh, so he's actually now taking the pandemic seriously and doing something to help ALL Americans. This type of "damn if you do; damn if you don't" attitude is exactly what's going to ensure Trump wins the 2021 presidential election. </quote> You aren't a liberal. Dunno why you bothered even lying about that</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Surprise, surprise. Trump's death estimates are fake news, no basis in reality (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Surprise, surprise. Trump's death estimates are fake news, no basis in reality