Current Events > help me present my argument for "socialism" to this guy

(+) Yeah! (+)

im really drunk guys can u please help me



@Antifar
@andrelegeant
@averagejoel

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me = green
him = red

im Just impaired and want to actually present him with something that didnt come from my stunted drunk brain

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racism 'gets its power' from groupthink, not from capitalism

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find a better use of your time than arguing in favor of a discredited 19th century authoritarian ideology that has brought nothing but misery and death to hundreds of millions of people

Broseph_Stalin posted...

find a better use of your time than arguing in favor of a discredited 19th century authoritarian ideology that has brought nothing but misery and death to hundreds of millions of people

I put socialism in quotes for a reason but you just saw those 9 letters mushed together and immediately saw red, didnt you?

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

find a better use of your time than arguing in favor of a discredited 19th century authoritarian ideology that has brought nothing but misery and death to hundreds of millions of people

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How does that guy draw his conclusion that racism gets its power from capitalism? He just throws it out there like it's a well-known fact.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

How does that guy draw his conclusion that racism gets its power from capitalism? He just throws it out there like it's a well-known fact.

Stokely Carmichael? He was a prominent black civil rights leader. Most civil rights leaders were socialists.

He drew it from the obviousness of it. Capitalism = exploitation.

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Shablagoo posted...

Capitalism = exploitation.

lmao

Damn_Underscore posted...

How does that guy draw his conclusion that racism gets its power from capitalism? He just throws it out there like it's a well-known fact.

That's typically how any of these ideas are presented.

And I feel like I have to point out that apparently TC isn't for full-on socialism, but is full-on anti-capitalism. So where do you want it to end up?

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

lmao

lmao!

shnangyboos posted...

That's typically how any of these ideas are presented.

And I feel like I have to point out that apparently TC isn't for full-on socialism, but is full-on anti-capitalism. So where do you want it to end up?

Eh, I mean for starters I just want basic social programs that have been successfully implemented across the rest of the first world, you know what I mean?

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How were they successfully implemented? My understanding is these are capitalist countries with strong social programs, but you don't seem to like capitalism at all.

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shnangyboos posted...

How were they successfully implemented? My understanding is these are capitalist countries with strong social programs, but you don't seem to like capitalism at all.

Capitalist societies with basic social programs like universal healthcare. Many of the countries with the highest standards of living have this. I am, personally, opposed to capitalism. But what Im asking for is not much nor is it against capitalism.

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I guess I'm just struggling with capitalism=exploitation, while pointing to capitalist countries as the standard everyone should strive for.

And to be clear I'm not arguing against you or anything, it just seems like you want no capitalism while also not wanting full-on socialism, so what do you replace capitalism with?

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Racism is anti-profit though, so no

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Ryuko_Chan posted...

Racism is anti-profit though, so no

What? Theres big money in gentrification that disproportionately affects minorities
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Looks like he was just joshin with me lol:



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Broseph_Stalin posted...

find a better use of your time than arguing in favor of a discredited 19th century authoritarian ideology that has brought nothing but misery and death to hundreds of millions of people

name doesn't check out

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MarqueeSeries posted...

What? Theres big money in gentrification that disproportionately affects minorities

gentrification isnt racist though

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Ryuko_Chan posted...

gentrification isnt racist though

In the U.S. it generally has been.

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Shablagoo posted...

In the U.S. it generally has been.

no its not, it does definitely disproportionately impact people of colour though

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Ryuko_Chan posted...

no its not, it does definitely disproportionately impact people of colour though

Right, thats what I mean by generally.

Most ethnicities were discriminated against upon arrival here. (Putting aside slavery for a second) From the Italians to the Irish. We just assimilated more easily because of our white skin.

e: and furthermore, that was racism, just not the current iteration.

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Shablagoo posted...

Right, thats what I mean by generally.

Most ethnicities were discriminated against upon arrival here. (Putting aside slavery for a second) From the Italians to the Irish. We just assimilated more easily because of our white skin.

e: and furthermore, that was racism, just not the current iteration.

yes and those are anti profit things to do
refusing to sell to blahblahblah race means you dont have customers of that race

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Every major socialist society has or had racism problems. Sometimes it resulted in genocide. Seems like a poor premise. Power doesn't only come from capitalism. That's a really weird take actually. Since power has always been part of human society, and all other social creatures also have power dynamics.

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Ryuko_Chan posted...

yes and those are anti profit things to do
refusing to sell to blahblahblah race means you dont have customers of that race

Im antiprofit.

Ive never been against commerce with the blahblahblah race or any other.

ssjevot posted...

Every major socialist society has or had racism problems. Sometimes it resulted in genocide. Seems like a poor premise. Power doesn't only come from capitalism. That's a really weird take actually. Since power has always been part of human society, and all other social creatures also have power dynamics.

Feudalism...capitalism...colonialism.

I understand your point, but look at it through a historical lense.

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Shablagoo posted...

I understand your point, but look at it through a historical lense.

I am, that's why I mentioned all major socialist socities also had or have racism problems. It doesn't just magically disappear because you changed the name of your economic system.

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ssjevot posted...

I am, that's why I mentioned all major socialist socities also had or have racism problems. It doesn't just magically disappear because you changed the name of your economic system.

Social policies = the well-being of all

even in a capitalist system

what do they mean to you, may I ask?

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Shablagoo posted...

Social policies = the well-being of all

even in a capitalist system

what do they mean to you, may I ask?

I just use the standard definition of the means of production being controlled by workers instead of a capitalist class. Welfare state policies have nothing to do with either socialism or capitalism. They can be present or absent in either system.

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Ryuko_Chan posted...

yes and those are anti profit things to do
refusing to sell to blahblahblah race means you dont have customers of that race

believe it or not, that is not the extent of racism

slavery, for example, is extremely profitable for the owner

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Shablagoo posted...

Social policies = the well-being of all

even in a capitalist system

what do they mean to you, may I ask?

capitalism necessitates the existence of an exploited underclass. the social programs do not benefit everyone.

in some cases, the underclass is in another country -- a pyramid scheme that they were forced to join.

and just like other pyramid scheme, capitalism is fundamentally unsustainable. the system is not designed to provide for everyone; the checks and safety nets put in place to improve quality of life can be taken away. those in Finland and Norway, for example, are slowly but surely getting worse

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averagejoel posted...

capitalism necessitates the existence of an exploited underclass. the social programs do not benefit everyone.

in some cases, the underclass is in another country -- a pyramid scheme that they were forced to join.

and just like other pyramid scheme, capitalism is fundamentally unsustainable. the system is not designed to provide for everyone; the checks and safety nets put in place to improve quality of life can be taken away. those in Finland and Norway, for example, are slowly but surely getting worse

So basically, this:



(ftr I dont think Sanders is as much of a revolutionary as people are propping him up to be)

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Shablagoo posted...

So basically, this:



(ftr I dont think Sanders is as much of a revolutionary as people are propping him up to be)

I mostly prefer to use objective descriptions rather than moralizing it by equating it to "doodoo in the soup"

but yes, that meme more or less.

and, objectively, Sanders is not a revolutionary. he just wants some of the safety nets present in other places

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