Current Events > Do you think America has a gun problem?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Vote and discus.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/08/05/world-thinks-americas-gun-laws-are-crazy-theyre-right/

If you add up all the U.S. soldiers who have died in every war in our nations history from the Revolutionary War to the Civil War to World War II and the recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that number is still lower than the number of civilians who have died in gun-related incidents in the United States in the past 50 years.

M_Live posted...

Yes, as exemplified by the picture posted, people absolutely fetishize guns, and the ease of access does nothing to help our mass shooting problem. That said, I do not believe that banning guns is the solution.

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You can never have too many guns. Do I fear for my life everytime I'm in public? Sure, but ......

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People can also leave the USA and go to all the other places that have the gun laws they want, the UK is a good choice since the language barrier is small.

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RiKuToTheMiGhtY posted...

People can also leave the USA and go to all the other places that have the gun laws they want, the UK is a good choice since the language barrier is small.

believe it or not, a few people moving to the UK will not solve the problem of people in the US fetishizing guns

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No, America has a gun solution.

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averagejoel posted...

believe it or not, a few people moving to the UK will not solve the problem of people in the US fetishizing guns

I am saying the people who hate guns can leave for another country that supports their thinking.

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Too many people really do think they're just big cool toys. The whole chauvinist man's man "I shoot guns and if you don't you're a pussy" kind of way to be is very reductive.

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No, they moment they take our guns is the moment we lose our freedom :<

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Not really

https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/evlpvc/figures_dont_lie_but_liars_sure_can_figure_the/ffwn6fn/

I have a better idea. All the people who fetishize guns can move to some 3rd world country that has no gun laws.

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no, its a people problem. cant really isolate everybody in a group. yet an isolated individual will dwell on unhealthy thoughts. everybody is different and everyone has their limits. a person can endure only so much inner torture that thoughts may eventually lead to action.

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viewmaster_pi posted...

Too many people really do think they're just big cool toys. The whole chauvinist man's man "I shoot guns and if you don't you're a pussy" kind of way to be is very reductive.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/guns-and-masculinity/

The 1966 University of Texas tower shooting, in which a gunman killed 17 people and wounded more than 30, is considered to be the first mass shooting of the modern era.

In the subsequent decades, the conversation around gun violence in America has cycled through the same topics, from arming teachers to the meaning of the Second Amendment. But these tragedies have more in common than the rhetoric that follows them all but three were committed by men.

Gun deaths in the U.S. neared 40,000 in 2017. Most were from suicides and homicides, with men making up more than 80 percent of both perpetrators and victims. American masculinity is closely tied to gun culture and violence, but is rarely discussed. As traditional masculine expectations are being challenged, some gun policy experts are asking, is it time for this examination to reach gun culture?

RiKuToTheMiGhtY posted...

I am saying the people who hate guns can leave for another country that supports their thinking.

yes. and that will not solve the problem in the US.

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Problem, yes, but it's like breast cancer. It gets way more attention and energy than it should. Others things deserve the attention more.

I'd be fine if things just stayed the same

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Yeah, and a very telling symptom of the problem is that people like Riku ITT characterize anyone who isn't as crazy about guns as un-American

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HBOSS posted...

no, its a people problem. cant really isolate everybody in a group. yet an isolated individual will dwell on unhealthy thoughts. everybody is different and everyone has their limits. a person can endure only so much inner torture that thoughts may eventually lead to action.

And here, people with those kinds of problems can act with guns.

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bump

obviously

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I don't see how you can honestly say America doesn't have a gun/violence problem.

No other western countries comes close to them, by a gigantic margin.

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No. We have a gang violence problem.

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This says we don't when you actually look at the numbers and how they break down.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-deaths/

Mass shootings don't even account for 1 percent of total gun homicides annually.

SixStringHero posted...

This says we don't when you actually look at the numbers and how they break down.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-deaths/

Mass shootings don't even account for 1 percent of total gun homicides annually.

So there are more gun homicides than just mass shootings. Sure sounds like we have a gun problem.

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SixStringHero posted...

This says we don't when you actually look at the numbers and how they break down.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-deaths/

Mass shootings don't even account for 1 percent of total gun homicides annually.

I don't think your evidence makes the argument you think it makes.

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The vast majority of legal gun owners are not responsible for the 12k homicides the US has annually.

In a country with 330 million, 12k is a very small number which is mainly attributed to gang violence and drugs.

But there is still a gun problem.

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absolutely

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not to the degree some would make you think. the US has a gun ownership rate of 120:1. US citizens have half of the entire worlds firearms. there is an estimated 400-500million in circulation in the US across 100+ million citizens. Just by shear volume it stands pretty high that guns are going to be used for some nefarious shit over anything else compared to other countries. however if guns were the primary factor then the US just by that shear volume would be an apocalyptic wasteland right now which its not. breaking down the actual numbers ~99.9% of total firearms in civilian hands dont harm anyone (including used in potential suicides).

if you also analyze the numbers you see that suicides account for 2/3rds of gun deaths which are a very difficult thing to account the method for especially when the 2 other methods that take up around 45% of total suicides also carry a high success rate when tried. factor in the 40% rate of someone who doesnt get help the first time (assuming they lived) tend to also try again and be successful. there is also no guarantee that someone wont switch over to another method. canada some years back tried to do studies on this when they tried their long gun registry and they found any effects to curve suicides be extremely negligible when most turned to hanging and poisons as an alternate method instead.

also something to consider is the level of homicide break downs. almost all of them are gang related (something like 75% according to fbi statistics) which involves gang bangers killing each other (although unfortunately some innocents do wined up in the cross fire) with another 10% being "justified" police shootings and another 5% being "justified" defensive gun uses. another ~5% is negligent deaths (kids finding their daddys hi-point). the rest is what youd consider to be traditional murders like mass shootings and domestic incidents which is what most people tend to think of when they think of a gun problem of which those actually take up a very small percentage.

most of the actual gun deaths can be solved through a large amount of other methods not directly targeting guns just because a lot of them stem through societal problems which are things that should be addressed anyway.

now that all said, do i think there is some level of warship or instant entitlement that allows people to be negligent with them? yes. a lot of people treat them as toys to be left around and dont fully understand what they have in their hands. this however instead of throwing regulations after regulations at the problem, can instead be taught. the problem here is that guns are now being heavily stigmatized to the point that a lot of people (on the left specifically) dont want them around pretty much anywhere. this can lead to more and more people being ignorant and negligent with them and in the case of kids leads to certain forbiden fruit type fascinations where accidents happen. in a country with more guns than poeple you CAN NOT treat the problem like that, its only going to lead to bad things. by and large you didnt have this type of problem 60+ years ago despite gun laws being even looser just because they wernt treated as toys and everyone had them and learned about them (including in school). IMO we need to bring back safety classes in schools, free gun range safety courses for new gun owners and increase add campaigns encouraging gun safety. combine that with a lot of the other societal issues that could be solved and youd probably eliminate 90% of total firearm deaths over the next decade without even touching anyones constitutional rights.

That's a lot of words to say there's a gun problem, but you want to underplay it.

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If you're of the opinion that freedom is a problem

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Gun problem? I don't know. An idiot problem exacerbated by easy access to guns? Yes.

I have firearms, learned to shoot before I could ride a two-wheel bike, but I'm not an enthusiast, and I'm bothered that most gun "enthusiasts" I know IRL can't be trusted with a potato gun.

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Solid Snake07 posted...

If you're of the opinion that freedom is a problem

I didn't realize we had the freedom to shoot other people with our guns.

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You got the freedom to shoot them first*

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Tmaster148 posted...

That's a lot of words to say there's a gun problem, but you want to underplay it.

when a problem can be solved through other means not related to what you think the problem is then yes that problem wasnt the real one.

No, I don't think we have a gun problem.

We have problems that if properly addressed would drastically reduce gun deaths all on their own, as opposed to blaming the gun itself, and punishing actual gun owners by jumping through every hoop that criminals actively break.

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Tmaster148 posted...

I didn't realize we had the freedom to shoot other people with our guns.

Im pretty sure that's illegal chief

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Solid Snake07 posted...

Tmaster148 posted...

I didn't realize we had the freedom to shoot other people with our guns.

Im pretty sure that's illegal chief

It's best not to respond to anyone that resorts to intellectual dishonesty to shield themselves from the truth.
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It's always a good day when gun nuts get upset over my accurate posts.

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Objectively. Regardless of what you think the solution is and how to go about it, it is undeniable that this shit is uniquely American among developed nations.

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