Current Events > How is Star Trek: Picard so far?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm genuinely curious whether the "let's make Star Trek miserable and serious" style paid off or it's as lame as kind of expected.

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It's great if you don't like TNG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfQdf93e63I

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pogo_rabid posted...

It's great if you don't like TNG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfQdf93e63I

Pretty much everything they said although I'm holding onto hope that the treatment of the Federation will be justified as well as course corrected by the end.

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Based on how low my expectations were due to Discovery I was pleasantly surprised.

I'm watching very skeptically, I'm curious to see what Rich and Mike say, but IMO it's not trash yet, and it actually cares about canon.

STD is not Star Trek, Picard could still end up being consistent with Trek (even though it won't ever probably be week to week missions).

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pogo_rabid posted...

It's great if you don't like TNG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfQdf93e63I

No idea how Rich and Mike have survived on their alcoholism this long after how bad Star Wars and Trek have become as of 2020.

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pogo_rabid posted...

It's great if you don't like TNG

But what about if I did like TNG?

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BottomAssButt posted...

But what about if I did like TNG?

You probably will get some grey hair watching this, then.

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lmaoooo @ a subtle Picard and Data love story, god no...

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its not TNG its movie-style trek

its really not hard to negotiate

i enjoy it so far but theres only 1 episode

not sure when the other show comes back
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i kinda like it but i feel it's the TLJ of the star trek franchise, although maybe not as divisive?

hard to tell with only one ep out, but i'll keep watching

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Finished that review vid. Yeah that little stuff shown is ehhhhhh but it is only just one episode. Maybe the showrunners wanted to blow their load early to pull in new viewers and Abrams Trek fans before driving in the standard space politics stuff.

*edit* it's hilarious to think maybe RLM is responsible for the Star franchises crashing into their graves

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It looks like a generic meh sci-fi nothing show that is parading the corpse of Picard around to get views.

Which is a shame because I love Patrick Stuart
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So_Hajile posted...

Pretty much everything they said although I'm holding onto hope that the treatment of the Federation will be justified as well as course corrected by the end.

haven't watched yet but wat

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sylverlolol posted...

haven't watched yet but wat

The Federation (especially Starfleet) has become xenophobic and refused to help the Romulans evacuate. They also despise androids. The Federation in this show is meant to represent modern day United States. It's a far cry from what the Federation represented in all of Star Trek, what humanity can achieve by moving past racism, class-ism, etc.

Again, if the story involves the Federation becoming what it once was, then it's ok. Sort of. Still lame to dirty a foundation of Star Trek lore just for story that probably (but I'd like to be wrong) won't be anything amazing.

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am I seriously the only long time trek fan that likes the whole franchise? Yeah, TNG and DS9 were incredible. but what's come since, even if worse, is still quite enjoyable.

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Medussa posted...

am I seriously the only long time trek fan that likes the whole franchise? Yeah, TNG and DS9 were incredible. but what's come since, even if worse, is still quite enjoyable.

Even if you liked literally everything else, you at least should admit that Into Darkness was disgustingly bad.
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Medussa posted...

am I seriously the only long time trek fan that likes the whole franchise? Yeah, TNG and DS9 were incredible. but what's come since, even if worse, is still quite enjoyable.

I mostly do. I haven't watched Discovery. I can enjoy it when Star Trek ventures down mindless action path that the movies take, but I prefer the approach of being science fiction tales interlaced with metaphors over it.

That said, I think Picard is going to try and blend the two approaches and that's fine. Most of it was ok, it's just how the Federation is represented that's so off-putting.

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sylverlolol posted...

haven't watched yet but wat

The Federation now Is just Earth, refused to help Romulans when they came pleading for aid and hates Androids for some reason

Basically the Federation now act like the current US Republican party....

It's bizarre
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DeadBankerDream posted...

Even if you liked literally everything else, you at least should admit that Into Darkness was disgustingly bad.

Into Darkness was great, fuck off.

Sounds like they decided to go the hated TLJ route just to piss off fans, if STD was a failure with fans this show is likely to piss people off as well.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Which is a shame because I love Patrick Stuart

that's 99% why people are watching imo

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UnfairRepresent posted...

The Federation now Is just Earth, refused to help Romulans when they came pleading for aid and hates Androids for some reason

Basically the Federation now act like the current US Republican party....

It's bizarre

WTF how when it's in canon with everything during TNG + the movies? It may as well be an alternate reality or parallel dimension deal if they're going to blatantly make stupid shit up.

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Jagr_68 posted...

WTF how when it's in canon with everything during TNG + the movies? It may as well be an alternate reality or parallel dimension deal if they're going to blatantly make stupid shit up.

It's the JJ-movie-canon which, IIRC, doesn't necessarily include TNG canon.

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PrideOfLion posted...

I think the way the Federation is depicted is a logical growth on their end

It's really really really really really really really not

It makes no sense if you take into account what happened in DS9 and TNG. Also what we see repeated in the future in various episodes.

Hell The Klingons join the federation

On top of that this was already explored in Enterprise.

Earth is attacked by the Xindi in a flimsy stand in for 9-11. So they go kick the Xindi's ass. Lose their humanity along the way and then in the end make peace with the Xindi and grow.

And that arc was before the Original Series where everything is fine. Which was before TNG and DS9 where everything is fine.

The Federation suddenly becoming only Earth and being hateful and predjuiced makes zero sense and spits in the face of the ending of TNG where picard works at ensuring everyone stays close to prevent a dark and cold future
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PrideOfLion posted...

I think the way the Federation is depicted is a logical growth on their end
Also, it's only the first episode

I agree somewhat. I mean, that race has been known to try so many mischievous tactics in the past and are always trying something sneaky against the Federation. When the Federation is given the choice to help out the race, they respond with "no". It's understandable, but the show needs to go into why rather than painting the Federation as a-holes just because.

However, it also goes against the theme of what the Federation has always represented: humanity at its best and most finest. There are individuals that fail to show this, but by and large it's meant to show what we can achieve. It's an ideal that should be strived for. Instead, it's turned into a plot point. Even the Federation comes back around and is given a character arc (of sorts), the storytelling better be damn good to even justify it to begin with.

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All I want to know is has Seven appeared yet, and what is happening with her.
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Star Trek seems to have went into some alt universe it seems for STP.

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The Federation has always disliked Romulans since its inception.

The xenophobia we see the news interviewer exhibit may also be part of a trend we saw developing in DS9. DS9 followed the Federation through its deadliest war and some of it's darkest trials and we see that the way the Federation reacts to these trials isn't always in a good way.
We see mad witch hunts for Changelings when Starfleet attempts what amounts to a full blown coup against the president and how they wield their power bluntly in an authoritarian manner. We also see that normal citizens are beginning to be radicalized against the dominion. Also we see the influence of Section 31, we see them attempt genocide against the Founders and we see Sloan meddling in the affairs of Rouulan government as well.

This Starfleet that is beyond the ideals of Picard didn't start overnight, we see evidence of it all throughout canon.

Another possibility is that these sorts of attitudes always existed within the Federation, and we've simply viewed things thus far through a very sheltered lens.
Look at Admiral Satie in The Next Generation. If being 1/4 Romulan is that stigmatized owing to a war from one entire generation ago, then certainly being a synthetic could gather stigma after an entire planet is destroyed. Speaking of trials, look at The Measure of a Man. Data was being forced to defend whether or not he qualified for human rights ... that's no insignificant matter to land in front of a court. Any general social attitudes which would render such a case necessary are the same attitudes which would easily drive anti-synthetic sentiment after an entire planet was destroyed. To say nothing of the types of views which we saw some elements of Starfleet embody during the Dominion War. Or what about the type of bullying that both Worf and B'ellana report, based solely on them being Klingon?
What I find far more likely is that Picard is being forced to reckon with what the Federation actually is, rather than that the Federation has changed in any fundamental way. All that's changed is that the veneer of civility has been stripped away, because the modicum of comfort which permitted that civility to exist has now been disturbed. It only feels new because we view this world largely through the eyes of Starfleet captains, who are a group of people that have an active interest in believing that the Federation truly embodies all the values which it espouses.

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s0nicfan posted... Jagr_68 posted...

WTF how when it's in canon with everything during TNG + the movies? It may as well be an alternate reality or parallel dimension deal if they're going to blatantly make stupid shit up.

It's the JJ-movie-canon which, IIRC, doesn't necessarily include TNG canon.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense if Picard, Riker, Data, etc are supposedly continuing on from their old arcs after Nemesis...?

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PrideOfLion posted...

I mean, to me it's a generational change.
Picard grew up in the TOS-era where peace was abundant. He literally got to captain for the first Klingon in Starfleet.
But during his time as an adult, the Borg attack. The Dominion attack. An entire generation of people grow up and only know war and face the Federation's biggest issues.
Of course they're going to become jaded and focused on themselves

That doesn't make any sense, the Romulans helped the Federation in the Dominion War (addmitedly because the Federation lied and tricked them but no one knows that)

Spock has been bridging relations between the Federation (namely Vulcan) and Romulans for decades.

The Dominion War ultimately ended peacefully

There is no reason for the Federation to go Trump Administration... It doesn't make any sense from a story perspective

And from a TV perspective this arc has already been done and done less stupidly in Enterprise.

So it fails on 2 levels.
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The Federation deciding that it's better to just leave the Romulans to be killed by their sun going supernova is extremely antithetical to what they were in previous series. Even if it became necessary, they wouldn't set up a gotcha Fox News segment where they blame and belittle Picard for doing what he could to help.

I think it also just doesn't make sense for "synthetics" to suddenly be advanced enough that they're basically a full-blown race with the ability to independently kill a planet.


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pegusus123456 posted...

I think it also just doesn't make sense for "synthetics" to suddenly be advanced enough that they're basically a full-blown race with the ability to independently kill a planet.

Ehhh

It might be

I mean Mudd had an army of android sex slaves in TOS like 100 years before

I can grant that there is no reason to believe Android research stopped because Soong died

Hell Picard even referenced Maddox in the episode, showing that cybernetics research never stopped.

Soong's androids being the best doesn't preclude that there are no other androids. I can buy that there are a ton of Androids, just none in Starfleet apart from Data

Also "destroying a planet" was an accident they didn't intend

I'll give the writers the benefit of the doubt on that one
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ill just wait to see how the season progresses and make a decision then.
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I must have missed some details, but i thought the federation refused to help Romulus AFTER the rescue armada was destroyed by the synths. Like the federation was like "Look guys, we'd like to help, but we've got our own problems to deal with right now."

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Alex Kurtzman That is all.

Ok, there's more. It's a show written by people who are not fans of Star Trek, just like Discovery. It's hack writers wanting another generic dark and gritty sci-fi show. DS9 was dark and gritty, but it still felt like ST most of the time.

People go, "Well Patrick Stewart is on board with it and supports it", but he also was on board for the dumbass dune buggy scene in Nemesis. I have a good feeling they're going to make movies Picard look like show Picard at this rate. I have no hope.

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Southernfatman posted...

Alex Kurtzman That is all.

Ok, there's more. It's a show written by people who are not fans of Star Trek, just like Discovery. It's hack writers wanting another generic dark and gritty sci-fi show. DS9 was dark and gritty, but it still felt like ST most of the time.

I found this out a couple hours ago. How does this fucking talentless loser keep getting writing gigs...

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Lmao saw a comment on that vid that probably rings the most true

"They just used Picard as the sugar to mask the taste of changing the hopeful utopian future based on mutual understanding, underwritten by unlimited resources, into one of deprivation. Now the Romulan Empire is apparently just one planet , and the Federation is basically just Earth, who is the only planet to take the refugees in, and Earth's resources are stretched thin enough for human beings to resent the drain on their economy.

They've turned a vision of limitless potential into one squeezed on every side, either because they weren't creative/interested enough to create something given the parameters of the show, or else they couldn't make the type of political message show that they wanted to explore without creating new sources of tension where none previously existed."

What Rich said also resonated with me, that what they did with this universe feels disgusting. You take the most hopeful vision of a future earth and just pervert it with nonsense prejudice

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They're trying to insert real world problems into ST, which isn't a new thing of course, but they're doing it so heavy handed that it just messes everything up. Not like these writers or producers ever seen more than a handful (and thats generous) of ST episodes.

Jagr_68 posted...

I found this out a couple hours ago. How does this fucking talentless loser keep getting writing gigs...

Must have some important friends or compromising pictures or something of said friends.

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legendarylemur posted...

Lmao saw a comment on that vid that probably rings the most true

"They just used Picard as the sugar to mask the taste of changing the hopeful utopian future based on mutual understanding, underwritten by unlimited resources, into one of deprivation. Now the Romulan Empire is apparently just one planet , and the Federation is basically just Earth, who is the only planet to take the refugees in, and Earth's resources are stretched thin enough for human beings to resent the drain on their economy.

They've turned a vision of limitless potential into one squeezed on every side, either because they weren't creative/interested enough to create something given the parameters of the show, or else they couldn't make the type of political message show that they wanted to explore without creating new sources of tension where none previously existed."

What Rich said also resonated with me, that what they did with this universe feels disgusting. You take the most hopeful vision of a future earth and just pervert it with nonsense prejudice

It would make a lot of sense, if, in the aftermath of the Borg and Dominion Wars, the Federation became more insular, that it would start thinking that some rocks were meant to be left unturned, that not every nook and cranny needed to be probed and explored. It might even become less friendly to outsiders, and there may even be forces within it advocating for keeping its limitless bounty to itself and to shut out the dangers of the world beyond the Federation's borders, the violent Klingons and lying Romulans.

However, this just sounds like the Federation just up and became the Terran Empire from the evil mirrorverse.

Jagr_68 posted...

I found this out a couple hours ago. How does this fucking talentless loser keep getting writing gigs...

Because his movies on average make an obscene amount of money.

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Discovery and Picard both give me this sullen, bordering on depressed, feeling. That just seems to be the tone of Trek, nowadays. The first episode of Picard was great though. It really pays respect to the TV series and shows an understanding of the character.

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I predict data and Picard will be secret lovers

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I miss old TNG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7ylbiCuFyw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eEGmC9FeFU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ddY_xgjH88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl_QrHTLWwk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbJIi8QJ8PU

I want more of that

Good writing of good characters in good stories

Not just running around screaming while things explode and lasers fly around
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^^those first couple links were brutal

Not so much Wesley, that was awesomely brutal but Riker getting scolded sure was. TNG captured the tones perfectly between work relationships and "for the greater good".

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The funny thing is that I don't remember the Pegasus episode being that great, but that scene alone is superb.

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After 2 episodes, the sad part isn't the setting and changes made to the federation, it's why. It would be a great character piece to have Picard, near the end of his life, have to question his place in a changing world, ask why it changed and if it was understandable for people to get there while looking for a way to bring them back, or perhaps address if he's the one old and out of touch. At the very least I'd have liked some line or reminiscence to the Maqui and wondering if the federation has always had these kind of problems and he just turned a blind eye until he fell on a different side.

What we get is heavy handed political allegory desperate to say the federation just became dicks, and it's all rooted in some political schemes. It's entertaining in a bad fanfiction sort of way. You watch to see just how far down they can dig themselves while trying to bask in fanservice.

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