Current Events > How come people say homosexuality is unnatural?

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HerpToTheDerp posted...

is putting words in people's mouths the only thing you can do? or do you just have difficulty reading. humans teaching a monkey how to use gun being unnatural is what i said. how do you get there from that?

i wish i could say it slower or make it any more simple for you
learning/creating is a natural ability. that does not make what is learnt/created natural.

HerpToTheDerp posted...

a lot of the times we lose sight of the actuality of this situation. the reason being for us being different in the sense of why we're able to create more complex tools than the ones we find made in other aspects of nature is because of our ability to learn. nobody is born with the innate ability to create literal things like nuclear weapons or theoretical things like religions and manifestos. all of these creations come from a culmination of generations and the ability for us to pass down what we've learned.

again im not saying it is unnatural for us to create. by nature we are curious and we are problem solvers. that does not mean that everything we make is natural. you brought up beehives. bees naturally make those. the knowledge and abilities used to create a hive is innate.

I didn't put these words in your mouth.

You said things from a culmination of generations passed on are unnatural. Then you claim beehive bulding is innate which is likely false.

And I linked you an article detailing many animals lose knowledge when not raised by their parents such as how to build nests, what to eat, how to forage, etc.
These are things passed down and learned as you said from a culmination of generations. Yet this exists in the wild, in animals without human intereference.

How can that be? It means your logic is non-existent and must be reformed.

FrozenXylophone posted...

I was not aware literal science said Religion formed against the rules of nature....

Or anything else for that matter. What branch of science might I ask do you reference?

i guess psychology. that's typically the one that deals with what is innate and what is learned. nature vs nurture is most often referenced in psychology

TheOnionKnight posted...

Again, where are you drawing the line?

at piss, shit, and vomit.

there are too many variables that go into what is created to objectively state what is a natural creation. the thing is there is no line to be drawn. it's either all on the table or its not. unless you want argue racism, anti-semitism, and other racist ideologies being natural since they're man-made

Basically why they consider it unnatural is because they see sex as a way to reproduce and continue the survival of the human species. Not as an activity simply for "pleasure". The fact that it is pleasurable is for obvious evolutionary reasons. One cannot reproduce with homosexuality but I believe there are evolutionary reasons for that existing as well. It's probably meant to control population rather than increase it.

HerpToTheDerp posted...

unless you want argue racism, anti-semitism, and other racist ideologies being natural since they're man-made

Yes.

Animals have hate even in the wild.

Infact, it seems dogs usually hate cats unless humans intervene.
Humans can grow cats and dogs together and they exhibit preference like brothers.

But in the wild they will attack each other not even over food.

HerpToTheDerp posted...

at piss, shit, and vomit.

there are too many variables that go into what is created to objectively state what is a natural creation. the thing is there is no line to be drawn. it's either all on the table or its not. unless you want argue racism, anti-semitism, and other racist ideologies being natural since they're man-made

In my very first post in this thread, I already said horrible ideologies and beliefs are also natural. I agree that "it's all on the table or it's not." That's why I keep saying that all human behavior is natural. "Natural" does not mean "good." Which is why whether something is natural shouldn't be used as a moral or ethical guidepost.

Piss, shit, and vomit are certainly not convincing points!
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https://m.ranker.com/list/mean-animals/laura-allan

Foxes essentially mass murder.

Chimps have war. They got us vs. Them groups much like humans.

Elephants sometimes rape and kill rhinos for no reason we understand.

darkphoenix181 posted...

I didn't put these words in your mouth.

You said things from a culmination of generations passed on are unnatural. Then you claim beehive bulding is innate which is likely false.

unfortunately for your narrative it isn't.
https://www.beeculture.com/instinct-vs-intelligence/
In The Hive and the Honey Bee, (1992 edition), Norman Gary wrote the chapter titled, Activity and Behavior of Honey Bees. He makes a strong argument that the behavior of honey bees is hard-wired, or instinctual. The bees unconsciously see a need within the hive and respond to it.
i wont cherry pick, the article does go on to give the argument of bees operating more off of intelligence than instinct but that goes beyond the scope of hive building and more towards learning where to collect nectar.

And I linked you an article detailing many animals lose knowledge when not raised by their parents such as how to build nests, what to eat, how to forage, etc.
These are things passed down and learned as you said from a culmination of generations. Yet this exists in the wild, in animals without human intereference.

the article you cited said nothing about this regarding a culmination of generations. it actually goes on to say thats where we humans benefit as most animals only learn from generation to generation. anything that can be found repeated in further species deals more with it being a genetic mutation thus making it innate. otherwise it goes from one generation to the next and it's not like mankind where we have the capability to learn from the previous generation and every other one before it while other animals mimic the generation that raised it but what we do goes beyond mimicking. anyways, that was never something i was arguing in the first place. I only mentioned bees to highlight the difference between natural behaviors and learned behaviors. i never said anything about any other animal in regards to natural behaviors nor did i say they operated only off of natural behaviors. at least not in that post you quoted. you're free to show me where i said otherwise though.

How can that be? It means your logic is non-existent and must be reformed.

no it doesnt. because nothing you've posted goes against what ive been saying. all you've managed to do is attack strawman arguments like "animals operate solely through natural behaviors" which was something i never said. instead you post articles regarding learned behavior which ive already spoken on. in the scope of these behaviors, though they are learned they are all learned in coordination with their innate/natural behaviors. nest building and scavaging how its done may be learned but its still done to address their natural needs such as attaining food and shelter. religion, which is what this entire thing started with, is nowhere in the mix. it is not innate. nore is it learned to appeal to our natural/innate needs

darkphoenix181 posted...

Yes.

Animals have hate even in the wild.

Infact, it seems dogs usually hate cats unless humans intervene.
Humans can grow cats and dogs together and they exhibit preference like brothers.

But in the wild they will attack each other not even over food.

hate=/=aggression. also thinking dogs instinctively hate cats because racism is lol worthy. it does have to do with instincts but has little to do with them being cats.

I see the value in distinguishing between instinctual and learned behaviors, but not in calling only one of them natural.

Aren't there gay apes?

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SrRd_RacinG posted...

Aren't there gay apes?

There are many gay animals... Animals sometimes just have sex with whoever...
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Guide posted...

Look at this snowflake, looking for reasons to feel oppressed.

its what they all do on this board
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Bump

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Because they need an excuse to justify their discrimination. Humans flying isn't natural either but I bet they take planes for trips. Getting metal strapped to your teeth to straighten them isn't natural either but they aren't trying to ban braces.

There are a ton of things that can be qualified as unnatural they have no problem with so we can conclude that their stance on homosexuality as being unnatural really isn't their problem, rather their it is just their excuse to justify their bigotry.