Current Events > So how do Pro-Guns defend the fact the rest of the world doesn't have gun issues

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Japan, Australia, Western Europe,India, Canada etc all have strict gun laws. No epidemic.

Seems to just be the US that has bi-monthly school shootings and gangs massacaring each other in the streets with firearms.

All of the pro-gun arguments seem to ignore this constant precedent.

Remember in the Terminator when Arnold just walked into a shop and walked out armed to the gills? Imagine if that was set in Australia. He would be chasing Sarah Connor around with a BBQ poker and Boomerangs.

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Guns_of_Verdun posted...

Imagine if that was set in Australia. He would be chasing Sarah Connor around with a BBQ poker and Boomerangs.

Or just, you know, set the entire continent on fire.

I've always wondered this. Like just recently a facebook friend of mine posted about the texas church shooting, saying if we didnt havenguns then the shooter would have had free reign to shoot people up. But how often does that happen in countries where people dont have guns?

They always seem to focus on small no gun zones within the larger gun having america, which if course is a dumb idea.
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Guns_of_Verdun posted...

All of the pro-gun arguments seem to ignore this constant precedent

Maybe it just doesn't matter?

How many of those other countries incorporated an explicit right to bear arms in their fundamental document/source? I'm going to guess zero.

I hate that people are using guns to harm others in crazy ways but it doesn't mean the best solution is to strip everyone's right to own one.

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Because they point at Breivik and say that it is the exact same thing, just that it look worse in USA because they are so many more.

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spanky1 posted...

But how often does that happen in countries where people dont have guns?

In theory you've got the right idea. In practice not so much. The issue is that compared to say, England, the US already has MILLIONS of guns in circulation. I think there's something like 3 guns for every adult in the country? If you issue a gun ban those don't just vanish. Is the government going to compensate people for the weapons they're basically stealing? Do you grandfather in existing guns? And there's the 2nd Amendment issue, where gun ownership is a protected right.

There's no clean way to fix the problem, and some people do not want it fixed at all (valuing personal rights over collective safety). Armchair theorists always seem to have the "perfect" solution but these all seem to fall apart when applied practically to the actual real world.
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Gun laws have gotten stricter in the past 50 years. Have the amount of mass shootings increased or decreased?

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doomcrusader posted...

Gun laws have gotten stricter in the past 50 years. Have the amount of mass shootings increased or decreased?

Go to gun show, no background check required, same as for 50 years ago.

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Long story short, they blame multiculturalism. I'm not joking.

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fire_bolt posted...

In theory you've got the right idea. In practice not so much. The issue is that compared to say, England, the US already has MILLIONS of guns in circulation. I think there's something like 3 guns for every adult in the country? If you issue a gun ban those don't just vanish. Is the government going to compensate people for the weapons they're basically stealing? Do you grandfather in existing guns? And there's the 2nd Amendment issue, where gun ownership is a protected right.

There's no clean way to fix the problem, and some people do not want it fixed at all (valuing personal rights over collective safety). Armchair theorists always seem to have the "perfect" solution but these all seem to fall apart when applied practically to the actual real world.

Oh I'm aware of all that. The goal is generational change though, not overnight change. Attrition of guns. Over time things would get better. I'm talking decades.
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whitelytning posted...

How many of those other countries incorporated an explicit right to bear arms in their fundamental document/source? I'm going to guess zero.

Serbia, probably.

Foppe posted...

Go to gun show, no background check required, same as for 50 years ago.

Not where I live and I live in Indiana which has some of the loosest gun laws

Where you live that has these no check gun shows?

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K181 posted...

Long story short, they blame multiculturalism. I'm not joking.

I overheard one of my coworkers blame mass shootings on interracial marriages. So I believe ya.

Comparing the US to those countries is an apples to oranges comparison.

Those countries do not have the history nor constitution that the US has. They also do not have the population density and gang and drug problems the US has.

This is a good break down of total gun deaths/ homicides that occur annually. You will notice that mass and school shootings account for a minority of gun related homicides.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-deaths/

"The world" has a much bigger gun problem than the US. It's only when you constrain the list to OECD countries that the US jumps ahead, and even then it's at 3 gun deaths (murder AND suicide) per 100,000 people compared to the rest of the list being at closer to 1 death per 200,000 people. So is 3 per 100K an "epidemic"? To put that into comparison, many states have a drug overdose rate of 25-50 per 100,000. Most of the south has heart attack deaths at nearly 1,000 per 100,000. The number of people who die annually due to drowning is roughly the same as gun deaths. The car crash fatality rate is about 16 per 100,000.

I absolutely support better gun legislation, but if we're going to throw around words like "epidemic" we better damn well mean it.

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We have thousands of gun laws on the state and federal level.

We have a socioeconomic problem.


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I'm fine with a total gun ban if a ton of other problems are solved first like our government corruption issues caused by the rich owning it, the wealth divide, police abusing and murdering citizens, neo-nazism/fascism/white nationalism being on the rise and infiltrating our police forces, poverty increasing, people being put in literal concentration camps, etc.

I total ban and confiscation at this point is insane and just leaves us vulnerable to abuse. You can go "hur hur how you gonna fight da nukes!", but I'll take a slim chance over no chance at all.

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If you are going to use another countries gun laws to debunk the effectiveness of ours, you are going to have a really hard time.

There has never been statistical evidence of gun laws decreasing or increasing murder rates.

Even Australia, who has had gun laws change recently did not have murder rates that adjusted alongside the gun buy back

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Questionmarktarius posted...

Or just, you know, set the entire continent on fire.

The CFA volunteers beat ya to that.

Guns_of_Verdun posted...

Japan, Australia, Western Europe,India, Canada etc all have strict gun laws. No epidemic.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it an epademic but we've had our far share of mass shootings and gun homicides over here too, and all of said firearms wear illigal anyway so yea... Can only imagine the problem would be exemplified in America if you attempted to make guns illigal when there's already so many on the street.

But at same time I wouldn't want the attitude America has towards guns over here, for the most part, it's a cultural difference and applying the solution that other countries have isn't going to work for America... But what America has now also isn't working, so their going to have to work something different out, a middle ground between over the counter machine guns and a total gun ban.

Background checks is a good start, and anyone denying that is just an idiot.

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It wouldn't matter if we started to ban guns. Lots of people own them already, and you really think people are going to hand them over if they become illegal? That didn't work with alcohol.

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I for one think giving those criminals at the ATF more BS laws to use for entrapment is a brilliant idea not

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I believe a common argument is "There's already so many guns here. Nothing we can do about it."

It's strange because certain Americans have this "We're the best and can do ANYTHING better than anyone else!" mentality...

But when it comes to guns these same Americans are like "We're totally powerless to stop this".

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In Rwanda , they banned guns completely
In 3 months - 500,000 people were murdered with machetes.

The End

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seqntenialbeast posted...

If you are going to use another countries gun laws to debunk the effectiveness of ours, you are going to have a really hard time.

There has never been statistical evidence of gun laws decreasing or increasing murder rates.

Even Australia, who has had gun laws change recently did not have murder rates that adjusted alongside the gun buy back

How is life with your head so far up your ass?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#/media/File:2010_homicide_suicide_rates_high-income_countries.png

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The rest of the World doesn't have the same Freedoms either.

America has a lot of demographics issues too that other countries don't because their populations are so homogeneous.

they have other issues (some theyve redefined to make it seem better than it actually is) and they have other pros that aids in people not wanting to commit violence.
Umbreon posted...

But when it comes to guns these same Americans are like "We're totally powerless to stop this".

how far down the totalitarian rabbit hole do you want to go? in order to "fix" it means violating a lot of rights and putting bans on tons of materials and items. and even then based on our overall violent culture it might not do anything to begin with unless you also tackle the things turn poeple to wanting to commit crimes and violence. it might actually make things worse.

I don't know of the perfect solution to it all.

I just know that doing nothing at all isn't what we should be doing.

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Umbreon posted...

I don't know of the perfect solution to it all.

I just know that doing nothing at all isn't what we should be doing.

Some of the smartest words I've seen on the internet, honestly.

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Japan had a shooting recently, and they're a very small country with the strictest gun laws in the world. Gun laws don't work.

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Pepys Monster posted...

Japan had a shooting recently, and they're a very small country with the strictest gun laws in the world.

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Pepys Monster posted...

Japan had a shooting recently, and they're a very small country with the strictest gun laws in the world. Gun laws don't work.

"funny" enough it was a full auto assault rifle too.

Dark_Spiret posted...

"funny" enough it was a full auto assault rifle too.

But gun crimes don't happen in Japan! The US is the ONLY place in the world with gun violence. right?

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