Current Events > When will western RPG devs learn that limited inventory and weapon repair suck?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Holy shit. I'm probably 20 hours into Witcher 3 and this limited inventory nonsense is ass cheeks. Thankfully the weapon repair stuff is hardly an issue. But I can't for the life of me get my inventory down to a serviceable amount to go off on a few quests without being weighed down. Neither of these things add anything to most of these games.
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Alrighty then.

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*laughs in Breath of the Wild*

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TIL Breath of the Wild is apparently a western RPG.

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SuperShake666 posted...

TIL Breath of the Wild is apparently a western RPG.

I never said it was unique to western RPGs.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

Holy shit. I'm probably 20 hours into Witcher 3 and this limited inventory nonsense is ass cheeks. Thankfully the weapon repair stuff is hardly an issue. But I can't for the life of me get my inventory down to a serviceable amount to go off on a few quests without being weighed down. Neither of these things add anything to most of these games.

if you're on pc, there are a couple of mods that make the game go from unplayable to playable, namely no item encumberance, no equipment durability and fast travel from anywhere

Playing on Switch so no mods :/
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SuperShake666 posted...

TIL Breath of the Wild is apparently a western RPG.

I was pointing out that it's not just western RPGs.

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jumi posted...

I was pointing out that it's not just western RPGs.

You might want to look at the time of our posts, boyo.



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Honestly inventory management blows.

It has caused me to stop playing a few games I was otherwise enjoying recently as I didn't want to waste a decent chunk of the few hours I had available to play cleaning up or agonizing over inventory.

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haha dragon quest tho

inventory management is another thing that could be cool but isn't, along with encounter rate

like: i think every room should have the player thinking they can avoid fights if they take the fewest steps through. so they take the second before any steps to look at the layout. so the encounters can actually be threatening enough where running into one anyway can be meaningful.
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Pancake posted...

haha dragon quest tho

DQ XI for Switch is the first DQ game I've ever played

Let's just say it's everything I love about JRPGs without everything I hate about JRPGs.

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You can basically ignore weapon repair for most of Witcher's early game. You'll continue to get new leveled swords to replace your worn down ones and it probably isn't until level 17ish before you get swords you might use for a while. And frankly even the penalty for 0% condition isn't that bad.

As far as weight management goes, make sure to do the horse racing in Velen so you can get the Saddlebag that increases weight by 30. I think you can also buy it if you don't like racing. You'll get better saddlebags later that give progressively more weight.

Also there is very little reason to hoard items so feel free to sell stuff. This is especially true for steel weapons. You can also break them down for crafting material, but frankly your be swimming in the iron/steel/leather those weapons provide regardless. If you can try to sell weapons to Blacksmith and armor to Armorers as you'll fetch a better price. Before you sell any rarer weapons or armor it doesn't hurt to see what they would give you if you deconstruct them. Some give rare crafting items like gems.

If you are afraid of losing something stash it the stash.

Oh and keep an eye on the number of torches you are carrying. They stack and have weight so they can take up a deceptive amount of inventory weight.

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It was so pointless in Outer Worlds.

Cool I get to Hold Y to repair my equipped weapons sometimes. Why?

Most of the loot in that game is useless so I wasn't overencumbered very often at least.

But yes it's terrible in The Witcher 3. It's just busy work that adds nothing to the game.
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Let's just say it's everything I love about JRPGs without everything I hate about JRPGs.

admittedly the last one i played was the ds one but it was pretty much like the rest of them in terms of inventory.

did they change it?
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SuperShake666 posted...

You might want to look at the time of our posts, boyo.

Fair enough.

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Pancake posted...

haha dragon quest tho

inventory management is another thing that could be cool but isn't, along with encounter rate

like: i think every room should have the player thinking they can avoid fights if they take the fewest steps through. so they take the second before any steps to look at the layout. so the encounters can actually be threatening enough where running into one anyway can be meaningful.

I was having fun with Earthbound but I got to a point where I had too much stuff and didn't know what to keep so Nerd could repair it and what to sell. I got fed up so I just quit playing.

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"But Breath of the Wild" is a pretty terrible argument against TC.

It sucks in that game too.
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Sam Bridges managed.

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I was having fun with Earthbound

escargo express is like, a midgame upgrade to 6 items instead of 3 away from being absolutely fine.

shit i think the most fun i ever had with inventory management was diablo 2 i had that horadric cube i was using as a backpack
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Alright, I just had some coffee so I'm going to get into this.

You have to realize that these "slice of life" systems that are implemented in games are meant to immerse you more in the game world by making necessary to "prepare, adapt, and survive"

Weight
Durability meters
Hunger/Thirst Mechanics
Fatigue Mechanics

While you make a game where there is an environment with its own flora and fauna, If there is no interaction between the player and the setting, the setting can seem as largely just window dressing.

Look at the list above and realize that with each of these mechanics, there solution is typically a non-combat one and involves interacting with the game world

Weight - You are going to either make assumptions about what you need, or invest in player storage or housing, which adds to world building.

Durability Meters - You are either going to have to bring a backup weapon, find a blacksmith (or someone to repair you weapons)

Hunger/Thirst - You are going to have to know what is edible in the world you are playing in, as well as knowing where water is on the map, another element that assist with world building.

Fatigue Mechanic - you are going to need to find a (safe) place to sleep, which both feeds into the weight mechanics, and additionally make it to where things like Inns serve a purpose other than HP restoral, meaning that, unlike in most RPGS, Inns are always useful

TLDR: Annoying meters in games are usually meant to assist in world buidling, increasing the importance of the setting of the game world and by directly linking it to a gameplay mechanic.


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I like inventory management. Really enjoy having to think about what I'm bringing with me, and limiting what I pick up while out and about.

Weapon repair sucks when done improperly. BotW and Dark Souls are perfect examples of how not to do it. Metro Exodus is a great example of how to do it right, don't clean your shit and your gun might jam up on you. Actual gameplay consequences as opposed to just being a way to limit income/time spent in the field.

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I think there are system reasons behind inventory management as well.

Using Witcher 3 as an example, my first time through I was a terrible hoarder. I kept everything. It got to the point where simply opening my stash took several seconds and adding and item to my stash or pulling something out took another 4 seconds a piece.

I can't even imagine what it would be like if I could have kept everything on hand. Having encumbrance mitigates that.

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Im an item hoarder a d in most games my inventory is full but Witcher 3 never is an issue for me.

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The problem with these aspects (for me at least) is that they tend to end up being tedious chores that add little to nothing to actual gameplay. E.g. in FO3, I go back to my home base in Megaton to dump the shit I've picked up, repair my weapons, and sleep. None of that really adds to gameplay at all--they're just repetitive chores that have to be done and eat time that I could be spending out in the field.

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The DQ has inventory management subthread in here has me lost. I have played them all and I am trying to remember ever needing to do that. I usually sold old equipment, so I guess I never hit whatever the limit was.

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Compsognathus posted...

I think there are system reasons behind inventory management as well.

Using Witcher 3 as an example, my first time through I was a terrible hoarder. I kept everything. It got to the point where simply opening my stash took several seconds and adding and item to my stash or pulling something out took another 4 seconds a piece.

I can't even imagine what it would be like if I could have kept everything on hand. Having encumbrance mitigates that.

Maybe the part of the problem that needs addressing isn't the number of things the player can carry but the terrible way the game manages it.

Do we really need to add a new sword to an arraylist, and inevitably dump loads of inventory data onto the disk to slow everything down instead of just incrementing the number of swords by one?

Oh wait I guess so because for some stupid reason swords break after ten swings so we need to keep track of each one's HP individually.

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Each sword is also a little unique in damage and features.

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Compsognathus posted...

Each sword is also a little unique in damage and features.

Long story short, WRPG design tropes are just not a good fit for video gaming as a medium lol.

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Pillars of Eternity dropping the whole weight limit thing is one of my favorite parts of the series. I remember one of the devs saying something along the line of "We know you're going to pick up and sell everything you find, this keeps you from having to backtrack and pick stuff back up."

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Don't pick up weak swords or armor. Same goes for horse saddles and deposit the colorful gem things on your storage box

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My biggest issue with inventory weight limits is that it's never the valuable stuff that ends up taking the most. From Bethesda games to the Witcher, it's always the "junk" items you don't realize you have like 7 ladders. And because that becomes a problem when dungeons and time between towns becomes longer you either have to drop stuff you want or waste a slot on a perk that only raises your weight limit.

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I have saddlebags that add 30 to my overall storage but 90 isnt really enough for me to not have to worry about it. I would buy into the immersion part of this shit if they made inventory more engaging and didn't exempt some items as they do. Like all crafting, quest, and alchemy items are 0 weight because they knew that shit would be annoying as fuck if it weren't. Might as well remove the whole mechanic while you're at it because it's never not annoying af.
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About the same time eastern devs realize that random encounters are no thanks

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I still complain about breath of the wilds weapon durability to this day.

Wind Waker remains my favourite zelda game.

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BlackSheep715 posted...

About the same time eastern devs realize that random encounters are no thanks

Most of them have at this point.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

I have saddlebags that add 30 to my overall storage but 90 isnt really enough for me to not have to worry about it. I would buy into the immersion part of this shit if they made inventory more engaging and didn't exempt some items as they do. Like all crafting, quest, and alchemy items are 0 weight because they knew that shit would be annoying as fuck if it weren't. Might as well remove the whole mechanic while you're at it because it's never not annoying af.

There's also a perk (ability, or whatever it's called) that raises your weight limit by 60.

DuranOfForcena posted...

there's nothing wrong with limited inventory as long as it's not done too tediously. it just feels weird and unimmersive when you can carry around 99 of every item in the game and keep on trucking like it was nothing. weapon repair i can see an argument against, but tbh i don't find it a problem either if again it isn't done too tediously.

Everything should be secondary to the game's rules working as a game.

I'm all for immersion but if immersion is your excuse for "lol you picked up an empty bottle and now must drop something else in order to continue walking" then screw it.

Kinda like how it's better for a game to have three elements that balance each other than for the water element to just sorta make things wet but not really hurt them while fire demolishes everything. No, it's not particularly realistic but at least it's a decent game that way.

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Smashingpmkns posted...

I have saddlebags that add 30 to my overall storage but 90 isnt really enough for me to not have to worry about it. I would buy into the immersion part of this shit if they made inventory more engaging and didn't exempt some items as they do. Like all crafting, quest, and alchemy items are 0 weight because they knew that shit would be annoying as fuck if it weren't. Might as well remove the whole mechanic while you're at it because it's never not annoying af.

Just make sure to sell stuff when you are near vendors. *Minor Novigrad vendor spoilers* There is a vendor in Novigrad you'll get access to when you start the Triss quest. He sell a Saddlebag that increases inventory by 100. It's a bit pricey at just under $1k, but if you are selling stuff you can easily afford it.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

i have absolutely no idea what game you are referring to. every game i've played with the classical elemental magic system has had water/ice spells that do damage. sounds like you just need to play better games. any game that wants to do the classical elemental magic system, but ditches an entire element because the devs can't figure out how to balance it properly with the other elements seems like it would automatically be trash.

I think that's his point. Realistically, things like Fire and Lightning are going to be drastically more damaging than water or wind spells. Especially at lower levels. Instead they are relatively balanced damage because balance is better than realism in that case.

He's essentially arguing that gameplay is more important than realism in other aspects of the game too. Like inventory management.

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That is quite annoying sometimes but it's rarely a problem in the witcher. I'm gonna suggest you're missing something really important, like you're not breaking down junk or holding onto trophies or something.

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DuranOfForcena posted...

his point is that it's better to ditch an entire element than figure out a fitting way for it to be balanced with the other elements. i disagree with that. there are plenty of realistic ways that water and wind can be damaging, and balanced overall with fire and lightning.

No Gheb nailed it, actually.

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pinky0926 posted...

That is quite annoying sometimes but it's rarely a problem in the witcher. I'm gonna suggest you're missing something really important, like you're not breaking down junk or holding onto trophies or something.

I generally agree with this and I'm a serial video game hoarder. Once I broke my need to keep everything (because my Stash was literally causing the game to slow down by existing), I realized I could typically do a few quests, stop by the armorer/blacksmith, sell/breakdown what I need, then do a few more quest. This becomes super easy once you get to Novigrad where everything is pretty close.

And this is with me picking up literally everything.

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Limiting inventory is generally done to prevent unessicary hoarding and protect against menu laging and crashes, and sometimes inventory management can be used as an immersive effect in a game but normally it's done poorly and is just tedious and annoying.

Weapon degradation and repairs only serves as an attempt at immersion or worse play time buffering, and it's value to the game entirely depends on the point of the game is.

Example your pickaxe breaks in Minecraft, which makes sense as the whole point of Minecraft is the continuous cycle of resource management.
But a couple of games that come to mind, FarCry 2, RDR2, older Beth Titles (Fallout 3, oblivion) it was little more than a tedious annoyance that adds little to the game but making you waste a couple of minutes in a menu every time you hit something.

While limited inventory has its reasons for existing due simply to programming limitations in many cases, Weapon degradation should only exist in games that are meant as Survival Sims. Imagine if your guns jammed in Call of Duty?

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DuranOfForcena posted...

no, he's wrong that fire and lightning are realistically always more damaging than water and wind. some of the worst natural disasters that can happen are caused by water and wind. if you can't think of ways that water and wind can be balanced with fire and lightning than you lack imagination and reason. and if you are a dev who can't think of ways for same, then you are not a very good dev.

I don't particularly care if you like the example or not but point is if your gameplay suffers for realism, screw realism.

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Check your other/crafting tabs and sell excess animal hides. Those and weapons are the usual culprits for a bloated inventory in Witcher 3.

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