Current Events > Should a trans person reveal they are trans before a date?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Why or why not?

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again?

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I don't think so. Definitely before sex. I don't know about telling the person unless you vibe with them though.

malenz posted...

I don't think so. Definitely before sex. I don't know about telling the person unless you vibe with them though.

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malenz posted...

I don't think so. Definitely before sex. I don't know about telling the person unless you vibe with them though.

This, I think.

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malenz posted...

I don't think so. Definitely before sex.

Yeah I can agree with that. I probably shouldve made that the question tbh.

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Yes. Right off the bat. If they are a dating website, put it in the bio.

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Depends on the context of the date. Not sure how to navigate that.

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Inb4

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ASAP would be safest for the individual. Definitely before sex though.

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Whatever the scenario, they should make sure to tell them in a public populated area if at all.

There are too many cases where men have exploded and resorted to violence when told in private.
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Yes ASAP. I'd only date biological women so not saying anything would end up bad for both of us.

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There are trans men who have also had women react badly to the revelation too from tossing drinks in the trans men's faces to straight up assault.

Some trans men can now pass enough to experience what it feels like as a male recipient to an angry woman's scorn...

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Hey this is the topic I got purgatory for when I said they should disclose!

Round 2? Nahhhhh.

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Let me ask this:

Say you dont disclose. And you touch the other party during a foreplay session. And then reveal it during, what should the reaction be? Should it be considered rape? Unwanted sexual contact? Assault? Sexual assault?

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Agnostic420 posted...

Let me ask this:

Say you dont disclose. And you touch the other party during a foreplay session. And then reveal it during, what should the reaction be? Should it be considered rape? Unwanted sexual contact? Assault? Sexual assault?

Rape by deception

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Yes
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The real problem here is that some bigots wont date trans people!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2X-PgHSZh6U

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Yes, as a courtesy and as a safery measure.

Also, regular reminder that we should respect and tolerate all gender identities and sexusl orientations, but heterosexuals and homosexuals only being interested in cisgenders is apparently the new Hitler to some.

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If you are worried they might be something that makes you uncomfortable to the point of considering it rape, the onus is on you to ask whether they are or not beforehand. Some people here are really insecure in their sexuality, Jesus.

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Probably.

If it's through a dating app, it should be mentioned before they meet in person.

Wokebebe posted...

The real problem here is that some bigots wont date trans people!

How bigoted.

Wokebebe posted...

The real problem here is that some bigots wont date trans people!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2X-PgHSZh6U

Thats me. Although according to anonymous admin, Im a homophobe so we can go with that.

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Morally? Yes

Legally? No you can't make that law. That's a 1st amendment violation

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Guns_of_Verdun posted...

Morally? Yes

Legally? No you can't make that law. That's a 1st amendment violation

There are lots of times when it's illegal to lie. Among them:

• impersonating a federal agent (18 USC 912)
• lying to a federal agent (18 USC 1001);
• health care fraud (18 USC 1035 and 1347);
• mail fraud (18 USC 1341);
• wire fraud (18 USC 1343);
• perjury (18 USC 1623);
• False Claims Act (31 USC 3729-33);
• and libel and slander (common law).

But you're right that these laws are all at least theoretically in conflict with the First Amendment rule that "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech." So why are some of them upheld against a First Amendment challenge while others are struck down?
The Supreme Court explained its rationale a few years ago in U.S. v. Alvarez, 567 U.S. 709 (2012). That case dealt with a federal statute making it illegal to falsely claim that you had won any medal that Congress had authorized to be awarded to the armed forces. The federal government said that false speech had no value and therefore was not protected, pointing to cases upholding laws like the ones listed above where the Court had used similar descriptions.
But the Court rejected that argument, noting that the cases where it has upheld laws limiting false speech dealt with "defamation, fraud, or some other legally cognizable harm associated with a false statement":

In those decisions the falsity of the speech at issue was not irrelevant to our analysis, but neither was it determinative. The Court has never endorsed the categorical rule the Government advances: that false statements receive no First Amendment protection. Our prior decisions have not confronted a measure, like the Stolen Valor Act, that targets falsity and nothing more.
Even when considering some instances of defamation and fraud, moreover, the Court has been careful to instruct that falsity alone may not suffice to bring the speech outside the First Amendment. The statement must be a knowing or reckless falsehood.

So that sort of gives you an organizing principle. It's not really a philosophical distinction, and meeting it doesn't mean that the lie is illegal, just that it may be outlawed.
tl;dr: The First Amendment usually does not protect lies when they are:

• made knowingly; and
• made with some corrupt purpose.

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There's a difference been fraud , impersonation and not disclosing personal details

"You cant pretend to be a cop therefore you must tell everyone about your erectile dysfunction " doesn't hold up

You're pretending there is a gray area here where there really isnt

Hell you said it yourself, lying with criminal purpose

A transgender not telling you they are trans isnt a lie and isnt criminal

douchey sure but not criminal


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The real question is, whos paying for the meal? Sure the fuck will only be paying my half.

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Guns_of_Verdun posted...

There's a difference been fraud , impersonation and not disclosing personal details

"You cant pretend to be a cop therefore you must tell everyone about your erectile dysfunction " doesn't hold up

You're pretending there is a gray area here where there really isnt

Hell you said it yourself, lying with criminal purpose

A transgender not telling you they are trans isnt a lie and isnt criminal

douchey sure but not criminal

True but just not saying anything wouldnt qualify anyway. But if they were asked and then lied about it, probably a bit different. Not disclosing it is just asking for trouble regardless. Its rude. Disrespectful. Untrustworthy. Just to name a few.

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In fact I just want to double down on how "saying you can't impersonate a cop is a first amendment violation " is idiotic

No it is not

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This needs to be a segment on that tv show What would you do?

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Last time I shared my opinion I got purgatory

*goes on to make 5+ thinly veiled transphobic posts*

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yes, how tf is this even a debate?

FursonaNonGrata posted...

Last time I shared my opinion I got purgatory

*goes on to make 5+ thinly veiled transphobic posts*

None of these posts are transphobic. Merely opinions. And the poll speaks for itself really. Ive always said idgaf who you are or what you do. But this topic is a no brainer.

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toyota posted...

yes, how tf is this even a debate?

Because TC threw the word "obligation " into the poll question

Yes they SHOULD

no there is no legal obligation

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malenz posted...

I don't think so. Definitely before sex. I don't know about telling the person unless you vibe with them though.

Agree with this. No need to create drama if you don't even click with the person. But if there is a click and a second date and/or sec going to happen in the immediate future, then yes, it should be disclosed.

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They should reveal it while introducing themselves in case the other person couldnt tell.

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Nazanir posted...

Agree with this. No need to create drama if you don't even click with the person. But if there is a click and a second date and/or sec going to happen in the immediate future, then yes, it should be disclosed.

seems a little rude to the second party. But as long as theres no intimate touching or kissing then that wouldnt be as bad. But I wouldnt expect a positive reaction from the other party for not telling them sooner.

Although to be a fair, it should only be a minor inconvenience and understanding about the other party. Still a time waster but a lesson to be learned for sure.

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yes they should. its a matter of courtesy, not obligation.

and last i checked, not wanting to date trans people doesnt make you "phobic" or whatever. it just means you're not attracted to them. and nobody should be judged for having their sexual preferences. just saying...

Should a trans person reveal they are trans before a date?

Short term (hook ups): I don't care. If both parties believe they got what they wanted, I think they'll survive...

Long term relationship: why would you want to commit to someone who would be bothered over your biology in the first place? Sounds self-defeating...

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Good on TC for including the poll so the extremely vocal, extremely small minority can see that they are overwhelmingly disagreed with
But I guess everyone is just a trans hating bigot anyway

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The Trent posted...

Good on TC for including the poll so the extremely vocal, extremely small minority can see that they are overwhelmingly disagreed with
But I guess everyone is just a trans hating bigot anyway

Being a minority doesn't make you wrong dude

Most of the world opposes gay rights

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The Trent posted...

Good on TC for including the poll so the extremely vocal, extremely small minority can see that they are overwhelmingly disagreed with
But I guess everyone is just a trans hating bigot anyway

Most people have problematic sexual preferences that they need to change. If youre a straight male and a potential partner tells you she is a woman, what else do you need to know?

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Wokebebe posted...

Most people have problematic sexual preferences that they need to change. If youre a straight male and a potential partner tells you she is a woman, what else do you need to know?

It's fine to ask questions, but it's on you to ask them.

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As soon as they feel comfortable sharing such personal things. Everyone is different.

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Garioshi posted...

It's fine to ask questions, but it's on you to ask them.

I've said this before and somehow it is rude and offensive to ask someone if they meet your preferences rather than them knowing what you need to hear. The only way to make sure you get the information you need when you want it is to be the one asking the questions.

People can't decide whether trans people are obvious and a small minority or if there is a 50/50 chance that every woman they fall for might have a penis.

These topics never really make sense because a trans person is always going to reveal eventually. It's fucking odds. I don't think this poll reveals what transphobes think it does. Everyone should and will reveal intimate details in intimate relationships eventually. It's just that the typical human being isn't such an open book that they immediately spill their personal history to every stranger even remotely interested in a platonic or romantic interaction.

If you need to know so badly, then take the risk and ask. No one is obligated to manage your preferences and priorities. Outside of putting them on a list, there is no way to force a trans person to open up on your schedule.

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No is the only correct option. It is entirely up to them when they reveal it and nobody is owed an answer before they give it.

OctilIery posted...

No is the only correct option. It is entirely up to them when they reveal it and nobody is owed an answer before they give it.

Nah, man. If there is something abnormal about you that a reasonable person could believe would put off a potential romantic partner, you should disclose it as soon as is feasible. Being trans is probably one of those things.

That's the information that needs to be disclosed before even giving me their names.

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That was fast. <_<

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