Current Events > HealthCare in America is such a scam

(+) Yeah! (+)

I haven't had health care in years and decided to entertain myself since I have a new job with higher income.

I make under 40k yearly gross. My lowest plan starts at $337 a month. Deductible at $7k. Doesn't feature dental. Still have to pay deductable in order for it to pay 50% of your bill.

How is everyone affording health insurance? I'd rather die than pay that every month and come up with a deductible.

I'm very sure people have it a lot worse too. The people who actually use their health insurance every month for doctor's visits and prescriptions while having to pay deductibles and going into debt to survive.

Like I would be paying $337 a month for something I might use once a year and if something does come up where I need it often I would need to come up with the deductible or doctor's bill every time?

I think I'll pass on health insurance and keep voting for good candidates to fix this mess.


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https://youtu.be/Kll-yYQwmuM

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Wait until they deny you coverage

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I pay >$650 / month in health, dental, vision insurance for myself and wife. Additionally there's something like $150 in copays for medications and visits. Add in the additional bill for surgeries and stuff and we're probably close to paying $1,000/ month on medical stuff. That's $12,000 /year.
None of that is including what my employer pays into it. I'd gladly take a tax increase to fix that shit. Lol

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I have Tricare through the military, it's treated me well >_>.

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Godnorgosh posted...

Imagine not having to pay premiums, copays or deductibles.

Imagine being able to take a contract job in your field because you're not worried about losing health coverage.

Imagine being able to organize for better working conditions without worrying about your employer using healthcare as leverage.

Americans: that is literally impossible
Canada: well actu--
Americans: I SAID, THAT IS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE
All other industrialized nations: It's easy, ju--
Americans: IT CANT BE DONE SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP

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RescueBC posted...

I pay >$650 / month in health, dental, vision insurance for myself and wife. Additionally there's something like $150 in copays for medications and visits. Add in the additional bill for surgeries and stuff and we're probably close to paying $1,000/ month on medical stuff. That's $12,000 /year.
None of that is including what my employer pays into it. I'd gladly take a tax increase to fix that shit. Lol

How do you afford it? Are you in debt?

Hexenherz posted...

I have Tricare through the military, it's treated me well >_>.

I had it too for a short period when the ex wife was in the military. It was good. I don't understand why only the military gets it.

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gotta make sure someone's not going to get deployed down range and then their tooth rots through and they get an infection in their brain :|

They did let my wife enroll in a Johns Hopkins family plan instead of Tricare which is kinda cool too. Works the same way.

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Damn dude. If you are healthy then you're almost better off just getting treated, saying you can't afford it, get the discount and pay by the month.

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This isn't "politics", it's corporate America.

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--Zero- posted...

I make under 40k yearly gross. My lowest plan starts at $337 a month. Deductible at $7k. Doesn't feature dental. Still have to pay deductable in order for it to pay 50% of your bill.

How is everyone affording health insurance? I'd rather die than pay that every month and come up with a deductible.

you say that now, until you have an accident that requires you to be hospitalized for a few days and you're hit with a $50k+ medical bill. medical debt is the #1 reason for bankrupcy in the US.

it's a really awful system, i dont really understand how anyone who has ever paid a medical bill can be ok with it, especially since every single person in this country will have to deal with medical events at some point in their life. it's also stupid how we tie health insurance to employment as well

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--Zero- posted...

How do you afford it? Are you in debt?

I had it too for a short period when the ex wife was in the military. It was good. I don't understand why only the military gets it.

I make enough to barely be able to afford it. It's a bit of a squeeze but I've managed so far. Lol
It's quite stressful though and I have skipped going to the doc for myself before though in order to make sure she can go. She's disabled so needs it more than me.

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I just canceled mine recently, its just a luxury I can't afford. Luckily I don't have a condition and am sorta healthy, but if something happens I'll be pretty boned. Probably just die tbh

-not me
-too bad, so sad
-not me
-lower taxes
-not me
-"nelson laugh and point"
-not me

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Healthcare is so expensive in America that if you get seriously ill, the majority of people couldn't afford to pay for their own healthcare with their entire annual income.

So we either have to bring the cost down, or simply agree that people shouldn't have to pay for their own healthcare. IMO, playing around at the edges of insurance policy just doesn't change the fact that literally most people cannot pay for their own healthcare
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konokonohamaru posted...

bring the cost down

given that providers operate with pretty small profit margins i don't think that is possible

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After I was born, my mother stopped working. My father is pretty successful but sepf employed. Insurance for me, my bro, mom, and dad was insanely expensive for my dad. Self employed and small businesd people get womped because they basically have to buy it individually.

My mom went back to work when I turned 8. Not for money, but so the family could get decent inurance at a decent rate. The whole system is stupid.

My parents are in their early 60s now and have plenty of money. My mom still only works so she and my dad have good insurance.

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Sometimes this shit does make me appreciate military health care. I mean, its total shit, but at least it's free.

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Hear that.. getting ready for an inpatient thing (mental health) and looking at AT MINIMUM $6,000. And that's if I stay less than 5 days.

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Sackgurl posted...

konokonohamaru posted...

bring the cost down

given that providers operate with pretty small profit margins i don't think that is possible

Surely there has to be a way right?
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Sackgurl posted...

given that providers operate with pretty small profit margins i don't think that is possible

their profit margins are small because of how expensive the doctors, the equipment, and the drugs all are.
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My job might suck and it's low paying but the insurance is damn good.

There's a video the other day on ce where they were asking non americans about american healthcare and they were shocked. "How much do you think the ambulance ride is in america?" "You have to pay for the ambulance?"

emblem boy posted...

Surely there has to be a way right?

in theory the total cost of care probably can't be changed

rather, the distribution of who's paying, and how that payment is provided, is what has to change. there's a lot of money lost in that section of it, and in particular the way our current system works basically subsidizes those who least need assistance by making employer contributions for employee insurance tax deductible (this pays for something like a third of all private insurance on its own, and leads to situations where young healthy people have ultra-high quality coverage that they don't need but have no reason not to take since it's free/nearly free for them, but costs the employer+government a ton).

providers lose money on anyone who defaults, which is a lot of people, so they have to charge as much as possible for their services to make up that loss, and they do it to the insurers that are least able to negotiate with them

private insurers have to make a profit, first and foremost, but since they can't negotiate to pay the exact cost of care, the ones that cover fewer people will inherently have to pay more for the same services as the ones that cover more people. because patient defaults produce operational shocks that can break a business entirely, the net cost of services passed to payers winds up being quite a lot more than it would be if there were zero risk of nonpayment--operating with short term debts costs quite a bit more than operating in the black all the time would. paying that plus overhead sets the cost for an insurer to even operate, then they have to make a profit.

even public insurers like medicaid or the state exchanges have this problem with negotiating power and price increases to cover defaulter costs. and since they're opt-in or income restricted, the defaults continue.

single payer nonprofit would remove the defaulter issue entirely and also be able to negotiate down to the lowest price per service that the provider could accept. and by operating through a tax, the cost would be shifted to sections of the population more able to pay (realistically, it'd probably be a cost increase to the upper middle class but a cost decrease to most others)

konokonohamaru posted...

their profit margins are small because of how expensive the doctors, the equipment, and the drugs all are.

the doctors and equipment are expensive for basic market reasons and it's pretty hard to get around this.

the drugs are another story but they're not really the main cost driver for providers.

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Sackgurl posted...

emblem boy posted...

Surely there has to be a way right?

in theory the total cost of care probably can't be changed

rather, the distribution of who's paying, and how that payment is provided, is what has to change. there's a lot of money lost in that section of it, and in particular the way our current system works basically subsidizes those who least need assistance by making employer contributions for employee insurance tax deductible (this pays for something like a third of all private insurance on its own, and leads to situations where young healthy people have ultra-high quality coverage that they don't need but have no reason not to take since it's free/nearly free for them, but costs the employer+government a ton).

providers lose money on anyone who defaults, which is a lot of people, so they have to charge as much as possible for their services to make up that loss, and they do it to the insurers that are least able to negotiate with them

private insurers have to make a profit, first and foremost, but since they can't negotiate to pay the exact cost of care, the ones that cover fewer people will inherently have to pay more for the same services as the ones that cover more people. because patient defaults produce operational shocks that can break a business entirely, the net cost of services passed to payers winds up being quite a lot more than it would be if there were zero risk of nonpayment--operating with short term debts costs quite a bit more than operating in the black all the time would. paying that plus overhead sets the cost for an insurer to even operate, then they have to make a profit.

even public insurers like medicaid or the state exchanges have this problem with negotiating power and price increases to cover defaulter costs. and since they're opt-in or income restricted, the defaults continue.

single payer nonprofit would remove the defaulter issue entirely and also be able to negotiate down to the lowest price per service that the provider could accept. and by operating through a tax, the cost would be shifted to sections of the population more able to pay (realistically, it'd probably be a cost increase to the upper middle class but a cost decrease to most others)

konokonohamaru posted...

their profit margins are small because of how expensive the doctors, the equipment, and the drugs all are.

the doctors and equipment are expensive for basic market reasons and it's pretty hard to get around this.

the drugs are another story but they're not really the main cost driver for providers.

You listened to this econtalk episode?
https://www.econtalk.org/keith-smith-on-free-market-health-care/

It's about surgery prices, but still interesting
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i have not, but i would guess that the center described therein also requires patients pay since it doesn't take insurance either

which is the one other way you can bring down costs: allow providers to refuse to treat those who cannot pay

it's a sort of alternate way to reduce the demand: let it die

"it" being "people"

most americans do not like that solution

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It's a literal scam. I have no respect for it because of it wasn't my Mother may have been still living today. But Allah Knows Best

i almost had to pay something of 140$ a month but they cover everything in the medicare plan. didn't get the best cards dealt in life to be unable to function enough to hold a job. if i need medications it's 5$ co-pay. it's also cost for a visit there but i never had to go to the hospital very often if maybe that one time for gastroenteritis (diarrhea for 4 days) and the seizure incident.

it's going to be a long winter :( just want things to go right for once i'm a stressed out individual.

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emblem boy posted...

You listened to this econtalk episode?
https://www.econtalk.org/keith-smith-on-free-market-health-care/

It's about surgery prices, but still interesting

great podcast. Thanks!

I've been saying for a long time that one of the biggest problems in healthcare is that we want it to be a market system, YET it's the only market I heard of where neither the buyer or seller knows the price until AFTER they transact.
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*Insert "That's socalism!" meme here*

Getting to the point where it's cheaper to die than to actually get yourself fixed up. ....Of course it also costs a lot to bury you, and certain debt doesn't go away because "Fuck you if your grandpa died, he owes us!".

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My Mother passed away from what may have been a very easily treated illness due to a gap in her medical coverage after Retiring from her Career in which she worked and served dutifully for over 10 years of her life. She was 69 years old.

Because we had gotten medical bills for $1000-2000+. She was hesitant going to the doctor until she was able to get new coverage. Unfortunately that never happened.

Also after her passing, we received a $750+ bill for her emergency medical services. It's just a disgusting system overall built off greed

Tony_Biggie_Pun posted...

we received a $750+ bill for her emergency medical services

damn. i was lucky when my father died could've been stuck with the bill but my family decided to let them take the good parts to help people in need. he gave about 50 skin grafts and 2 eyes to be donated.

got a souvenir coin which was given to my paternal grandmother.

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Sackgurl posted...

i have not, but i would guess that the center described therein also requires patients pay since it doesn't take insurance either

which is the one other way you can bring down costs: allow providers to refuse to treat those who cannot pay

it's a sort of alternate way to reduce the demand: let it die

"it" being "people"

most americans do not like that solution

Ya the patients pay out of pocket, but the prices seem to be dramatically lower than what the insurance provider would be paying if it did go through insurance.

But ya, the question of what about those who can't pay, did come up. The answer given, similar to what it seems most libertarians say, is that it'd be up to charitable or pro bono work.
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kingdrake2 posted...

damn. i was lucky when my father died could've been stuck with the bill but my family decided to let them take the good parts to help people in need. he gave about 50 skin grafts and 2 eyes to be donated.

got a souvenir coin which was given to my paternal grandmother.

Oh that's good. I personally decided to throw the bill in the trash. I'm not paying it under any circumstances. My family is Muslim so we didn't want to do any donations.

That's good how your family did that it can help a lot of other people

emblem boy posted...

But ya, the question of what about those who can't pay, did come up. The answer given, similar to what it seems most libertarians say, is that it'd be up to charitable or pro bono work.

which really circles back to the fact that this might work for this one provider individually, in a system where they can turn people away since they'll go somewhere else, but it can't work on the broad system since we aren't okay with people being told to go home and die.

Pick 2:

1) Inexpensive
2) Everyone gets treated
3) Individual agency over payments into the system

Most countries have decided to give up on 3). Americans stubbornly refuse to give up 3), while complaining about how they want 1) but being horrified at the idea of 2).

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Your health care system is a shambles. Why not learn form Europe?

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Ilishe posted...

Your health care system is a shambles. Why not learn form Europe?

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Tory minister admits the US will be able to increase the prices of Drugs bought by NHS after Brexit
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-raab-brexit-nhs-privatisation-trump-us-drugs-price-increase-a9230661.html

US drug pricing might come to the UK soon

Foppe posted...

Why am I reading this in their voices? LMAO, Paul Sr. talking about socialism.

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