Current Events > Watching Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi for the first time

(+) Yeah! (+)

PokemonYoutube posted...

One droid and one cruiser can't possibly take out an entire fleet of Star Destroyers the regular way.

Obviously, since cruisers aren't built for combat and are such large targets they'd be decimated before they lined up for the hyperspace ram.

Of course, that brings up the problem of why didn't the FO Star Destroyers just go and destroy the cruiser in the first place. That's really my whole issue with the entire chase subplot since it was literally a pack of dogs slowly following a defenseless cat and not bothering to attack even though they easily could.
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PokemonYoutube posted...

One droid and one cruiser can't possibly take out an entire fleet of Star Destroyers the regular way.

My personal thought on it is that a single cruiser wouldn't work against "a fleet of Star Destroyers". I think half the reason it was so effective was that it struck the Supremacy, and between the debris from the Raddus and what came off the Supremacy, it was enough to hit other Star Destroyers in the area, clustered close enough in formation behind the Supremacy. Like if they tried the same thing in RotJ against the Executor, they likely wouldn't get as much collateral damage.

Also the Raddus was a big damn ship. Three times the length of Home One (from ROTJ).

Banjo2553 posted...

That's really my whole issue with the entire chase subplot since it was literally a pack of dogs slowly following a defenseless cat and not bothering to attack even though they easily could.

I'd buy "hubris" on that one.

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Garioshi posted...

PokemonYoutube posted...

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Seriously. Even if someone feels like it failed on every single character/storytelling point, the hyperspace ram sequence makes it at least a decent movie by default.

Absolutely not. That whole sequence trivializes every space battle in the franchise. Since hyperspace ramming is apparently a thing that decimates an entire fleet when used, why has it never been used before? Why didn't the Rebels just ram a ship into the Death Star? Or against the Star Destroyers above Hoth while they were trying to escape?

Who cares it's cool

This is what Rian Johnson thought throughout the making of the movie, throwing away any character development and plot pacing.
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Guy_Fieri posted...

This is what Rian Johnson thought throughout the making of the movie, throwing away any character development and plot pacing.

The character development of Star Destroyers?

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I don't think these guys actually know what character development means, it's just like a buzzword they think makes them sound smart

Dunno what's worse TLJ haters or the TLJ shills.
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I hope in RoS they hyperspeed ram a ship or two into Death Star IV A New Hope in its first scene

SSJ2GrimReaper posted...

Dunno what's worse TLJ haters or the TLJ shills.

You see plenty more haters than shills, tbh.
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CyricZ posted...

I mean honestly these kind of comments don't really help either.

Because it's nothing but bait for the "actually"s to slide in and tell you what is *really* wrong with Star Wars and how their critique should be paid attention to.

Or they won't post any text at all and embed another YT talking head video.

I mean there's a lot wrong with the movie, but Holdo was one of the few parts that didn't suck. People just got mad that Poe wasn't the hero, but that was the least of the problems with Poe.

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CM_Ponch posted...

I mean there's a lot wrong with the movie, but Holdo was one of the few parts that didn't suck. People just got mad that Poe wasn't the hero, but that was the least of the problems with Poe.

Holdo was a completely unnecessary character though. Everything she did could've been given to Admiral Ackbar instead. Then he would've at least gotten a heroic sacrifice rather than just getting sucked out into space.

PokemonYoutube posted...

CM_Ponch posted...

I mean there's a lot wrong with the movie, but Holdo was one of the few parts that didn't suck. People just got mad that Poe wasn't the hero, but that was the least of the problems with Poe.

Holdo was a completely unnecessary character though. Everything she did could've been given to Admiral Ackbar instead. Then he would've at least gotten a heroic sacrifice rather than just getting sucked out into space.

Who cares?
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Ackbar was killed off because the actor who played him died.

I too would have liked a better end for him. I do like how he was handled in the Legends continuity. It largely focused around the New Jedi Order series (the one with the Yuuzhan Vong) Late in the series, with things looking very tough for the galaxy, Ackbar, now very old, comes out of retirement in an advisory role and helps strategize an actual decisive win against the Yuuzhan Vong that ends up being a turning point for the Galactic Alliance. In the final book in the series, as the GA is on the path to victory, the news comes over the line that Ackbar dies of natural causes and while it shakes everyone, it ends up being part of their resolve to succeed.

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Garioshi posted...

PokemonYoutube posted...

CM_Ponch posted...

I mean there's a lot wrong with the movie, but Holdo was one of the few parts that didn't suck. People just got mad that Poe wasn't the hero, but that was the least of the problems with Poe.

Holdo was a completely unnecessary character though. Everything she did could've been given to Admiral Ackbar instead. Then he would've at least gotten a heroic sacrifice rather than just getting sucked out into space.

Who cares?

They don't like looking at sjw hair in their star wars
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The problem with Holdo was that she was in the wrong movie. The rebellion had always been seen as a tight-knit group that watched out for each other and fought side by side. Poe was at that point already a literal celebrated "hero of the rebellion" who was a bit of a hothead but got results. Holdo's behavior was just completely unlike anything we've seen from anyone in the rebellion in any prior movie, and her weird insistence on refusing to tell Poe even as little as "I have a plan, trust me" was purely to make the plot happen. The moral of the story became "blindly trust authority" and while she had every reason to keep the plan itself secret, her refusal to even SAY "I have a plan" was just bad writing.
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s0nicfan posted...

The rebellion had always been seen as a tight-knit group that watched out for each other and fought side by side.

...did you watch Rogue One? They were SUPER fractured.
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Guess how many fights Kylo is gonna lose in episode 9
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Garioshi posted...

s0nicfan posted...

The rebellion had always been seen as a tight-knit group that watched out for each other and fought side by side.

...did you watch Rogue One? They were SUPER fractured.

Rogue One had its problems, too, and also took place early in the rebellion before it became what we saw in Episode 4. I'm talking main "Episode" movies.
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CyricZ posted...

Guy_Fieri posted...

This is what Rian Johnson thought throughout the making of the movie, throwing away any character development and plot pacing.

The character development of Star Destroyers?

The character development of Finn, Poe, Hux, and Luke... but who's counting?

FYI TC, you should seek out on youtube the deleted scene of Finn vs. Phasma. It's actually really good and I'm surprised they cut it.
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s0nicfan posted...

Poe was at that point already a literal celebrated "hero of the rebellion" who was a bit of a hothead but got results

The movie opens with Poe's hot head hero attitude costing countless lives and the entire bombing fleet. Holdo had every right to tell him to fuck off. The problem isn't Holdo holding back info from a reckless wannabe hero, the problem is they wrote Poe as a dumbass.

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CM_Ponch posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Poe was at that point already a literal celebrated "hero of the rebellion" who was a bit of a hothead but got results

The movie opens with Poe's hot head hero attitude costing countless lives and the entire bombing fleet. Holdo had every right to tell him to fuck off. The problem isn't Holdo holding back info from a reckless wannabe hero, the problem is they wrote Poe as a dumbass.

No, the movie opens with a freak accident causing one bomber to explode and destroying nearly all the other bombers in a way that nobody could have ever predicted, because for some reason they decided the right formation to go into the fight was a tight cluster of high explosives. And even then, Poe's gambit worked. If that ship blew up in any other way, they'd have only lost a couple of bombers and it would have been a huge success.

But yes, even then Holdo had every right to tell him to fuck off. Again, she didn't have to tell him her plan, but the only reason he rebels is because he asked her if she even had a plan and she refused to answer, letting him think she was just whinging it. If Leia wasn't in a coma she would have given him shit too, but she wouldn't have left him thinking they had no plans just to spite him, because while she doesn't agree with his attitude she respects his spirit and his desire to beat the empire and so treats him like an ally not a tool.
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s0nicfan posted...

No, the movie opens with a freak accident causing one bomber to explode and destroying nearly all the other bombers in a way that nobody could have ever predicted, because for some reason they decided the right formation to go into the fight was a tight cluster of high explosives. And even then, Poe's gambit worked. If that ship blew up in any other way, they'd have only one a couple of bombers and it would have been a huge success

Did you miss the part where it happened because Poe disobeyed orders. Where if Poe had followed orders things would have worked out.

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Garioshi posted...

Seems like a design flaw for a fuckton of bombs right there to cause a chain reaction destroying the entire dreadnought tbh

Soon:

ROGUE TWO: A Star Wars Story

So the guy who designed the dreadnaught ship was forced to do it against his will...
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CM_Ponch posted...

s0nicfan posted...

No, the movie opens with a freak accident causing one bomber to explode and destroying nearly all the other bombers in a way that nobody could have ever predicted, because for some reason they decided the right formation to go into the fight was a tight cluster of high explosives. And even then, Poe's gambit worked. If that ship blew up in any other way, they'd have only one a couple of bombers and it would have been a huge success

Did you miss the part where it happened because Poe disobeyed orders. Where if Poe had followed orders things would have worked out.

If an impossibly unlikely scenario hadn't happened and one bomber being hit didn't destroy literally every other bomber, it would have worked out, too, and with even better results. It was a reasonable gamble that had huge consequences because of something as likely to happen as being hit by lighting a dozen times, and he was treated like he knew it was going to happen going in.
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marthsheretoo posted...

FYI TC, you should seek out on youtube the deleted scene of Finn vs. Phasma. It's actually really good and I'm surprised they cut it.

The one shining character moment they gave for Phasma and they cut it for something much lamer. Wtf?
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5 > RO > 4 > 7 > 6 > Solo > 8 > 3 > 1 > 2
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DevsBro posted...

5 > RO > 4 > 7 > 6 > Solo > 8 > 3 > 1 > 2

Holy shit this is actually my ranking... Except I have 8 as equal to 3.
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DevsBro posted...

5 > RO > 4 > 7 > 6 > Solo > 8 > 3 > 1 > 2

This is a nice ranking
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DevsBro posted...

5 > RO > 4 > 7 > 6 > Solo > 8 > 3 > 1 > 2

Woah, we're actually pretty similar here.

For me, 7 goes between 8 and 3, but that's literally the only change I'd make.

(Also, if I could rank just the final moments of 6, they'd be above R1)
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SSJ2GrimReaper posted...

Guess how many fights Kylo is gonna lose in episode 9

All of them
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CM_Ponch posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Poe was at that point already a literal celebrated "hero of the rebellion" who was a bit of a hothead but got results

The movie opens with Poe's hot head hero attitude costing countless lives and the entire bombing fleet. Holdo had every right to tell him to fuck off. The problem isn't Holdo holding back info from a reckless wannabe hero, the problem is they wrote Poe as a dumbass.

If he hadn't kamikazed the bomber wing on the dreadnought it would've nuked the Resistance fleet as soon as the they came out of hyperspace with the FO right behind them.
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I didn't mind the opening scene; it was just too drawn out. It was more or less perfectly in-character and could have been a cute little chuckle if it had just been:

"Incoming transmission!"
"Can you tell Admiral Hugs I have a message?"
"It's Hux."
"Oh right, sorry. Anyway, it's about your mother."
"OPEN FIRE!"

A lot of people complain about it being a "yo mamma" joke but really, it's the best fit for a universally-understood Disney-friendly insult.

Maybe they could have gone with an ugly joke or something but that would take more time since just saying "you're ugly" is even worse than "yo manma".
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DevsBro posted...

I didn't mind the opening scene; it was just too drawn out. It was more or less perfectly in-character and could have been a cute little chuckle if it had just been:

"Incoming transmission!"
"Can you tell Admiral Hugs I have a message?"
"It's Hux."
"Oh right, sorry. Anyway, it's about your mother."
"OPEN FIRE!"

A lot of people complain about it being a "yo mamma" joke but really, it's the best fit for a universally-understood Disney-friendly insult.

Maybe they could have gone with an ugly joke or something but that would take more time since just saying "you're ugly" is even worse than "yo manma".

The yo mamma bit is bad.

But that entire sequence is awful.

Imagine watching John Wick and in the middle of a gun fight he pulls out his phone to call the villain and make jokes while still actively engaging in a gunfight.

It's terribly unfitting and nonsensical.
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stoltenberg11 posted...

CM_Ponch posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Poe was at that point already a literal celebrated "hero of the rebellion" who was a bit of a hothead but got results

The movie opens with Poe's hot head hero attitude costing countless lives and the entire bombing fleet. Holdo had every right to tell him to fuck off. The problem isn't Holdo holding back info from a reckless wannabe hero, the problem is they wrote Poe as a dumbass.

If he hadn't kamikazed the bomber wing on the dreadnought it would've nuked the Resistance fleet as soon as the they came out of hyperspace with the FO right behind them.

Well that's also a problem. The whole plot is basically a bunch of "it just had to happen this way" forced contrivances to drive things forward that don't really hold up to scrutiny. Like... we're all supposed to be angry at Poe for disobeying orders even though what he did prevented catastrophe? Our experience as the audience doesn't line up with what the story is trying to make us feel.

Similarly, we're supposed to believe that Del Toro, the master hacker, could break out at any moment but was just chilling in his cell for however long which just happens to work out for rose/finn because they stupidly parked on a beach even though presumably the gambling planet had regular parking (and there was no reason to do so) so they missed their shot at getting their original target. It's just dumb decisions followed or preceded by perfectly good/bad circumstances that happen to line up to push the plot forward, even though that entire sub-plot ultimately had no impact on the ending anyway.
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s0nicfan posted...

Well that's also a problem. The whole plot is basically a bunch of "it just had to happen this way" forced contrivances to drive things forward that don't really hold up to scrutiny. Like... we're all supposed to be angry at Poe for disobeying orders even though what he did prevented catastrophe? Our experience as the audience doesn't line up with what the story is trying to make us feel.

Similarly, we're supposed to believe that Del Toro, the master hacker, could break out at any moment but was just chilling in his cell for however long which just happens to work out for rose/finn because they stupidly parked on a beach even though presumably the gambling planet had regular parking (and there was no reason to do so) so they missed their shot at getting their original target. It's just dumb decisions followed or preceded by perfectly good/bad circumstances that happen to line up to push the plot forward, even though that entire sub-plot ultimately had no impact on the ending anyway.

The whole casino planet subplot was nothing but unnecessary nonsense.

PokemonYoutube posted...

The whole casino planet subplot was nothing but unnecessary nonsense.

If you removed Finn and Rose from the movie entirely, the only difference is that fewer escape shuttles would have been destroyed when they eventually fled down to the planet's surface (because they wouldn't know to scan for them because of Del Toro's betrayal). That's it. More people died because of that whole subplot than if it had never happened.
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DevsBro posted...

I didn't mind the opening scene; it was just too drawn out. It was more or less perfectly in-character and could have been a cute little chuckle if it had just been:

"Incoming transmission!"
"Can you tell Admiral Hugs I have a message?"
"It's Hux."
"Oh right, sorry. Anyway, it's about your mother."
"OPEN FIRE!"

A lot of people complain about it being a "yo mamma" joke but really, it's the best fit for a universally-understood Disney-friendly insult.

Maybe they could have gone with an ugly joke or something but that would take more time since just saying "you're ugly" is even worse than "yo manma".

It's a bad scene. He solos the entire ship'd point defense system and then makes cringe jokes. I wonder if they will give us an actual space battle in ep 9 to make up for it.
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It's absolutely hilarious that people think I'm not a serious person because I enjoyed a movie, though.
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Kylo taking the mask off was one of the biggest mistakes of the sequel trilogy
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Garioshi posted...

It's absolutely hilarious that people think I'm not a serious person because I enjoyed a movie, though.

It happens a lot around here. I get the same reaction when I say good things about the Batman v Superman ultimate cut.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Garioshi posted...

It's absolutely hilarious that people think I'm not a serious person because I enjoyed a movie, though.

It happens a lot around here. I get the same reaction when I say good things about the Batman v Superman ultimate cut.

I don't like BvS in general, but the ultimate cut definitely steps it up a notch.
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SSJGrimReaper posted...

Kylo taking the mask off was one of the biggest mistakes of the sequel trilogy

Absolutely not.

It was the best thing about both movies.
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nah I hated it too. it ruins his arc. his whole thing, the whole thing that made him interesting was his hero worship of Vader. they ruined it.

I don't mind at all that people like it, but how a lot of people act like everyone who doesn't like it is just a manbaby and/or bigot or whatever is really silly and wrong.
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Garioshi posted...

It's absolutely hilarious that people think I'm not a serious person because I enjoyed a movie, though.

But did you watch the deleted scene
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marthsheretoo posted...

Garioshi posted...

It's absolutely hilarious that people think I'm not a serious person because I enjoyed a movie, though.

But did you watch the deleted scene

I will
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Zikten posted...

it ruins his arc

Lol

Gobstoppers12 posted...

It happens a lot around here. I get the same reaction when I say good things about the Batman v Superman ultimate cut.

BvS didn't ruin a franchise.
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au_gold posted...

BvS didn't ruin a franchise.

why is it that it seems like everyone is trying to one-up each other to see how dramatic they can be

"TLJ was bad"
"oh yeah well TLJ was terrible"
"oh yeah well TLJ is worse than AotC"
"oh yeah well TLJ destroyed the series"

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Doom_Art posted...

au_gold posted...

BvS didn't ruin a franchise.

why is it that it seems like everyone is trying to one-up each other to see how dramatic they can be

"TLJ was bad"
"oh yeah well TLJ was terrible"
"oh yeah well TLJ is worse than AotC"
"oh yeah well TLJ destroyed the series"

Can't wait for "TLJ killed my entire family"
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Malfunction posted...

Zikten posted...

it ruins his arc

Lol

it was the only reason I liked him in Force Awakens. a sith nerd hero worshiping vader. The Last Jedi killed off that plot line