Board 8 > Replaying Dark Souls 2.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Am currently playing through the Souls series in order, just finished Dark Souls 1 and moved right onto Dark Souls 2. Liking it a lot more than I did the first time (which was at release). I don't think I gave it a fair shake because I compared it a lot to Dark Souls 1, which is a very very high bar to match. I went into it this time determined to judge it for what it is, and lo and behold, it's really good too.

I'm also playing Scholar of the First sin. Not sure what changes that makes, so maybe that helped improve the experience as well?

-The combat feels more fluid than Dark Souls 1. Dark Souls 1 has this weird issue where the rolling animation takes a bit too long to happen after pressing the button. It's easy to adjust to it but it sucks that it's there at all. Dark Soul 2's roll animation comes out a split second faster and it's much appreciated.

-Not a huge fan of the weapon selection though. I prefer Dex weapons and for whatever reason, most of their movesets feel unsatisfying.

-Power Stance Scimitars is pretty rad though.

-The graphics are probably the worst part of the game. The art style they went for makes most things like washed out and just kind of...off. Not terrible but not great.

-The world doesn't feel cohesive, which is a definite mark against it. Feels like they designed a bunch of individual levels and slapped them together. Hurts the overall atmosphere of the game.

-With that said, the level design of each individual level is slightly worse than Dark Souls 1, which means it's still very good.

-The torch mechanic is dumb but I like it anyway.

-I like how the game focuses on the Undead Curse and how it affects people. Makes your journey feel more personal.

-Gavlan wheel. Gavlan deal.
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Dark Souls 2 was the one I started with, the one I had to initially git gud with. Played the hell out of it for years so it holds a special place in my soul. Now after all of my experience with the series, I'd say it's probably my least favorite of the bunch. Not to say it's anywhere near bad, but it's clearly missing some type of polish that the rest of the games have.

Although still have yet to play through Scholar of the First Sin. Recently re-bought it digitally as an incentive to do so but got sidetracked by Sekiro instead. It's so fun!
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Iirc the scholar changes are generally minor, besides the foggy forest and how the dlc items are handled.

Ds2 weapons feel better than ds3 weapons, imo. And the fashion is a lot more viable.

Majula theme is the best hub tune.
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Scholar of the First Sin most notably changes every normal enemy placement compared to the release edition. If the patterns seem strange to you that's why. These patterns are worse, IMO, because there's a lot more cheap "surprise" enemies (not to mention Bastille which is a whole thing...you'll see), but not too bad if you've already played it before. It seems tailor-made to troll people who knew the old enemy spawns but if you know the area layouts it mostly evens out the challenge. I feel a little bad for people who started with this one, though.

Also there's the DLC of course which is pretty sweet. A little gimmicky at times but some real cool shit too.

Anyways Dark Souls 2 is great and I hope you enjoy your revisit. I think it gets a bad rap among the fanbase that's pretty undeserved (apart from the thing about the world you mentioned which is very true).

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Oh i did forget about the bastille... and heide's... yeah ok there's a lot of changes. I just hated the foggy forest the most because the area before the boss really sucks for most builds in the game if you enjoy killing the enemy mobs.
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it's long been known that dark souls 2 is a legitimately great game. pretty much anyone who says otherwise basically just outs themselves as a misinformed gremlin following mob mentality and basing their opinions on dumb and largely inaccurate memes.

the only "legitimate" criticism is the 'world design' meme and I use the term legitimate very, very loosely here. imagine being such a lame ass art house hipster that your source of pretending to be intellectual is pointing out how "muh elevator doesn't connect" and it's just impossible for you to enjoy the experience because this affects the gameplay so much!!

I can't believe the B Team made an elevator that doesn't connect properly!! now mainstream critics will never consider video games to be art!!

and of course my favorite classic (and completely inaccurate) meme is the TOO MANY ARMOR DUDES meme, when dark souls 2 literally has more non armor dude bosses than dark souls 1 had. or the SHRINE OF AMANA SNIPERS meme, which was a thing for literally all of 4 nanoseconds before it was patched. but everyone wants to seem like they are the intellectual sage sitting at the top of the mountain who personally discovered all of these issues (some of which don't even exist) and make sure everyone knows that they weren't happy about it!!

I mean god damn who puts an ELEVATOR that DOESN'T CONNECT into their game!! it's a travesty!!

how am I supposed to have fun during the other 60 hours of gameplay with this ten second segment ruining "muh immersion"
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I'm actually replaying DS2 as well right now. As far as boss elimination wise, I'm right around half way, and I already ventured late into the 3rd DLC of the game, and the last thing I completed was the 50 Loyce Soul side quest.

Sure, it's tedious to get all 50 Loyce Souls, but it sure brings in a lot of souls for leveling. Why the designers made you get 50 of those, I don't know, it seems kind of an excessive total, but, it doesn't take as long as you think once you get rolling with it. The tip to make it faster is to not kill the end boss of the DLC until you get all 50, and only stick around in the area until the ground shakes, and then leave and repeat. Defeating the end boss makes getting the Loyce Souls so much slower.

I started as a sorcerer, so that means heavy attunement leveling for max spell slots and spell uses. [75 to get max spell slots of 10, and 94 to get max spell uses for all spells in the game].

But in the end it's worth it, since that means you can use heavy hitting spells such as Soul Spear to their maximum effect.

Know what's the one thing I always found strange about the DEX stat, is how the developers nerfed the stat to be the worst for about 90% of weapons in the game. Every other stat is normal, and yet, the Dex value for is typically divided by 2. Example: If you have STR of A for a weapon, and DEX of A for another, in most cases, that A could translate to 90% scaling for the STR stat, but, for another weapon that uses the DEX of A, it gets 45% scaling instead.

One of the few weapons that doesn't seem to follow this reduction is the Blacksteel Katana, at +10, it has 100% scaling rather than the 1/2 of most other weapons for it's DEX value.
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I haven't noticed the enemy placement as being particularly trollish. I treat every room like a trap anyway though, Sen's Fortress already beat that methodology into me a long time ago.
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Dark Silvergun posted...

Know what's the one thing I always found strange about the DEX stat, is how the developers nerfed the stat to be the worst for about 90% of weapons in the game. Every other stat is normal, and yet, the Dex value for is typically divided by 2. Example: If you have STR of A for a weapon, and DEX of A for another, in most cases, that A could translate to 90% scaling for the STR stat, but, for another weapon that uses the DEX of A, it gets 45% scaling instead.

One of the few weapons that doesn't seem to follow this reduction is the Blacksteel Katana, at +10, it has 100% scaling rather than the 1/2 of most other weapons for it's DEX value.

Well that sucks. Slightly wishing I'd invested in STR instead.
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it makes absolutely no difference. the good weapons are good and the bad weapons are bad. the rapier is one of the best weapons in the game. if you think the % of scaling you get from the relevant stat is the only thing that makes a weapon good or bad you clearly have no understanding of how the game mechanics of dark souls 2 work.

what is the base damage of the weapon? what % scaling do you get? how does it scale when infused? what is the poise damage of the weapon? how fast does it attack? how does the move set look? can it be buffed? what is the offhand moveset like? does it have unique power stance moves? with what weapons? how are those?

there's literally like 20 factors that go into whether a weapon is good or not in dark souls 2, and most of them are usually really good at least for one build or another.

weapons that give a low % return from the stat usually have solid base damage and high attack speed to compensate for it. most of the high attack speed weapons (such as the rapier) are already amazing. if they had similarly high % scaling to the mace they would be absolutely broken.
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I posted in the wrong topic by mistake, but figured Id post here

Ive never really gotten too much into the souls games. I really like the atmosphere of Bloodborne, but I was put off by the learning curve. Now that Im more interested in playing stuff with a high learning curve, is there a good game in the series to start with, or can I just go with any one and go for a similar experience?
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You can start with any of them but if you like them you'll probably want to play them all anyways. You do get some benefit by going in order for the main series but it ultimately doesn't matter. Bloodborne is also a great starting point too, and is one of the best ones to boot.

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bloodborne is the best game, but it has an insane learning curve. definitely the highest in the series. in my opinion you have to beat bloodborne at least two or three times before you even start getting good at it. this partially has to do with the fact that blood vials are overpowered and can carry you through the game even if you're bad. it's still the one I'd recommend the most because it truly is the best.

dark souls 2 is the least cryptic game. if you want to have the least confusing experience, where you have a pretty good idea of where to go, start here. this isn't to be confused with a lack of options, however. dark souls 2 actually has multiple different paths you can progress down from early on and lets you play through them in mostly any order you desire.

play dark souls 1 if you're an art house hipster, then you can complain about the WORLD DESIGN of all the other games

demon's souls is pretty good but I'd have a hard time recommending it. the difficulty balance of the game is very wacky and while the bosses of the game were impressive at the time they feel really basic and silly after you've played bloodborne. the same is actually true of dark souls 1 to an extent but shh we're not allowed to talk about that. dark souls 1 is a MASTERPIECE.

never play dark souls 3 unless you have no other options.
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Heide Spear is best weapon

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I agree that starting with Bloodborne first is probably bad since it's very clearly the completion/perfection of this entire style of game. By contrast Demon's Souls feels really rough and prototypical so honestly I'd say start with Dark Souls.

Sekiro isn't a Souls game and doesn't belong in this conversation.
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I would consider Sekiro a souls game.

As for where to start, Bloodborne could be a good introduction to the series but it depends on what type of playstyle you prefer. Bloodborne is fast and aggressive combat with a spooky Lovecraftian setting (btw the best game in the series in case no one told you). Dark Souls requires you to take your time and study your opponent and surroundings, there's also more variety when it comes to how you wanna play. Such as magic making things way easier for a first time player.

If you wanna go in guns a-blazin' then Bloodborne is a fine starting point, otherwise I suggest Dark Souls. Any one of them are fine to start with.

I could even make a case for Demon's Souls if they would make a dang HD port of it but they won't so I won't
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I still love Demon's Souls. It has the best atmosphere in the series after Bloodborne.
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Hey I think DS1 is a fantastic game but yeah as far as replayability goes it's lower on the list for me. DS3 is the one I've played most since it's streamlined and easiest to get through.

edit: although, Artorias is still best souls character. Along with Maria. Oh hey new ship.
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Ds3 is the one I've replayed the least because it's so streamlined and all of the weapons feel so same-y and the combat arts do basically nothing and the bosses aren't all that much fun as they're just big hp sponges with multiple phases.
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2 has improved a lot since it's release, probably more than any other entry. It might still be the worst looking one but there's a lot to like if you're into PvP, tons of build and weapon options. It's like arcade souls

My big issues with DS2 are that so many bosses are just "big men in armor you should circle strafe" and the levels not forming any kind of cohesive (or even sensible) world. Considering the main strengths of these games are the bosses and overall world design, that's pretty damning in my book!

Admittedly I never played any of the dlc so I'm not sure if maybe that stuff helps.
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DS1 is one of my most replayed games. I never get bored of it.

I'm not looking forward to playing DS3 for the second time. It didnt really click with me the first time through. Definitely less enthused than I was to retry DS2.
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Xiahou Shake posted...

Admittedly I never played any of the dlc so I'm not sure if maybe that stuff helps.

It does. The dlc elevates the game from great to fantastic.
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KamikazePotato posted...

I'm not looking forward to playing DS3 for the second time. It didnt really click with me the first time through. Definitely less enthused than I was to retry DS2.

I replayed DS3 recently. It's honestly kind of a mixed bag. It has some really great areas (Lothric, Cathedral, Irithyll) and some pretty bad ones. The DLC in particular is some of the most obnoxious level design in the series. But I happen to like most of the bosses and there seems to be a decent amount of build and weapon variety though not quote as much as DS2. Though I'm pretty basic when it comes to weapons so maybe not.

It's kind of a toss-up between it and DS2 for me, though I like both for slightly different reasons. And DS2 having way better DLC is a big edge.

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Never did the DLC, but the swamp level in DS3 is easily my least favorite area in the series. And I actually like them in the other games.
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Although, scaling is massively important if you use the Bone Fist, since the base damage is negligible, since it has this as an attack power at +5:

20 + 100% STR + 45% DEX

Love it's ridiculous knock down ability, as it seems to deal massive poise damage over a lot of other weapons in the game.

Despite it's low stats, the weapon is devastating when used properly. [Combine the Ring of Blades+0/+1/+2 and Flynn's Ring to increase it's attack massively, as long as your Maximum Equip Load stays under 60.0, Flynn's Ring gives +50 to attack power.]

But anyways, probably the most important thing the game doesn't explain is the Agility stat, as the main thing to take away from it is to have the stat to at least 105, which gives your character the necessary invincibility frames for dodge rolls. When the stat is at 85, that is its base value, so 85 is effectively your zero stat.

Basically, any Agility stat below 110 goes up +1 when you get effectively "4 experience", which, from my experience becomes "+3 experience" from each Adaptability level up, and "+1 experience" from each Attunement Level, after reaching 110, the point total is approximately more than 8x that requirement, so there is really not much reason to go beyond 105, unless you really want the next invincibility frame upgrade which happens at Agility of 111.
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My playstyle is Dodge Souls, so yeah Adaptability is currently my highest stat.
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I really love the Valley of Defilement. Well the memory of it. Going back to play it would be a nightmare but that's why it would highly benefit from an HD port.

The atmosphere in that level was crazy impactful to me. I'm talking the whole place, not just 5-2. That section is definitely one of the most annoying to traverse, especially the first time through.
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I like the Valley of Defilement but I'm a huge Demon's Souls apologist. a lot of my criticisms of Dark Souls 1 apply to Demon's Souls as well, but I still love DeS to this day. though I will say part of that, for me, is the fact that you can use the arch stone to warp between levels and the order you can do the levels is pretty open from the very beginning of the game -- something no other game in the series has really replicated except dark souls 2 to an extent.
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I enjoy literally all the swamp/poison areas except for Dark Souls 3's. They tend to have unique level design.

Greatest all-areas are Tower of Latria and Astral Clocktower/Fishing Hamlet.
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Latria was a defining moment for me in my gaming
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same for me. demon's souls in general changed how I view gaming completely.

my favorite areas now are probably

DeS:
Tower of Latria (3-1 and 3-2)

DS2:
Brume Tower
Shulva, Sanctum City
Eleum Loyce

^ I think these three are among the best straight up dungeon crawls the series has EVER produced.

Bloodborne:
Yaharghul, Unseen City
Nightmare of Mensis
Forbidden Woods

^ I feel like these three actually say a lot about my taste in Bloodborne, and souls games in general.

people HATE the Yaharghul gank squad, it's one of my favorite moments in the game.

people HATE frenzy, I love it.

people really don't like forbidden woods, they complain about getting lost. I think it's a master class in area design. for example; you start at the top of the level and gradually make your way down toward the base. even if you don't realize it, as long as you're always moving downward in elevation you're not really lost... because you're actually going in the right direction. eventually you reach the river. the natural instinct of humans is to follow water, and the river leads you right the boss. seriously amazing design.

also there aren't really any specific areas in dark souls 1 that stand out to me, aside from blight town for being pretty bad.
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Blighttown is cool when the framerate doesn't suck. Design is top notch just like all of the first half of Dark Souls.

Honestly there's not many areas that I outright don't like. Mainly just Lost Izalith with its copy/paste dragon asses and blindingly bright lava. On the other hand it's difficult to choose my most favorite areas. However I know Fishing Hamlet makes me feel so happy, I would love to live in an area like that (sans the fish monsters).

Coincidentally I just made it to my other new favorite area in a souls game today: Fountainhead Palace. Yeah nevermind I wanna live there.
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MariaTaylor posted...

the only "legitimate" criticism is the 'world design' meme and I use the term legitimate very, very loosely here. imagine being such a lame ass art house hipster that your source of pretending to be intellectual is pointing out how "muh elevator doesn't connect" and it's just impossible for you to enjoy the experience because this affects the gameplay so much!

DS1 was widely praised for it's world design, so for the sequel to screw it up so monumentally is certainly noteworthy

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MariaTaylor posted...

people really don't like forbidden woods, they complain about getting lost. I think it's a master class in area design. for example; you start at the top of the level and gradually make your way down toward the base. even if you don't realize it, as long as you're always moving downward in elevation you're not really lost... because you're actually going in the right direction. eventually you reach the river. the natural instinct of humans is to follow water, and the river leads you right the boss. seriously amazing design.

I agree entirely. Forbidden woods is top tier.

I'm not sure what my favorite ds2 area would be... it's been too long since I've really gone through it.
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