Current Events > It's pretty hard to reconcile modern, liberal philosophy with the Bible.

(+) Yeah! (+)

When I talk about liberal stuff, I might be referring to gender equality, treating LGBT people the same as everyone else, watching violent films or playing violent video games. The Bible seems to have a number of problems with these things. Yes, I know films and games aren't specifically mentioned in the Bible...obviously.

Do you think it IS possible to combine a modern, liberal approach to life, and still be a proper Christian (as opposed to someone who says they're Christian, but clearly isn't)?

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If there is, I haven't figured it out yet and that's a big reason I would never identify with any religion. To be a member of a religion means taking their entire package, the good with the bad. When it comes to developing a personal philosophy and way of life, I don't have any problems just cherry picking good ideas and wisdom from various sources (the Bible being one of them) but that also means never being accepted by a religious community or being able to connect with others through a religion (which is a big deal to many)
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As a liberal, I kind of wish The Bible would just fuck off already. People throwing that ancient book at us every time we try to make progress is incredibly frustrating.

And another thing I hate:

I hate how every time a homophobic pastor or something is in the news, the person interviewing will ask him a question like "Doesn't The Bible say to love thy neighbor?"

Dude obviously they've heard that argument a thousand times and they've prepared a counter argument for it. We need to stop tip-toeing about and start telling them that their outdated book and their outdated religion are obsolete in modern times and have no place in our progressive society.

awesome999 posted...

That's actually a really interesting spin.

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nothing about modernity is compatible with traditional religions

the spirit of modernity is to eradicate every last vestige of traditionalism
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awesome999 posted...

lmao
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The problem with ancient religions in general is that they assume time stands still and there is no such thing as social development, because hey; they decided on a perfect way to live for everyone over a thousand years ago, so why would anyone ever want anything to change, right?
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The bible is an ancient book whose beliefs shouldnt be followed in the modern era. Same goes to any holy book. Even most conservitive beliefs are way too modern compared to the bible.

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Aressar posted...

The problem with ancient religions in general is that they assume time stands still and there is no such thing as social development, because hey; they decided on a perfect way to live for everyone over a thousand years ago, so why would anyone ever want anything to change, right?

the only truly ancient relations, indigenous paganism aside, are judaism and hinduism, which evolved and have continue to evolve as a response to environmental and social conditions over a sizable timeframe

for all the modernist critiques of their theology, their ins and outs are the manifestation of a great deal of multigenerational wisdom - derived from collective both trial-and-error and rational critique by individuals - pertaining to the most sustainable way for societies to exist given the circumstances in which they emerged and developed

derivative religions - including buddhism, christianity, and islam - emerged in response to perceived faults with older religions but have also evolved in a similar manner to their older counterparts, if you'll keep in mind that religious scholars put at least a millennia of effort into reconciling doctrine with scientific empiricism and secular philosophy

though it's arguable that even the truly ancient religions are derivative, if you'll keep in mind that judaism includes some allegorical reactions to sumerian / proto-semitic religion, as well as occasionally integrating elements of contemporary systems such as zoroastrianism

the hallmark of religion - or at least religions that have not evolved from traditional iteration - is, perhaps, the belief in the perfection of certain axioms core to the religion; everything beyond those axioms are open to critique, as are the meaning of those very axioms - this is how a religion like judaism can seem so rigid and yet so flexible

the belief that a certain state of the religion is "perfect" is essentially fundamentalism, which has typically emerged in response to perceived dire threats to the locally conventional way of life, particularly by perceived outsiders, but i'd argue that fundamentalism is an exception to the rule

it is important to note that fundamentalism is not exclusive to religion; after all, marxism-leninism and neoliberalism exist

the iterative process of religion is difficult to observe at most points in time due to the slow pace at which it moves - again, multigenerationally - comparable to plate tectonics when contrasted with the revolutionary cult of progress

that is not to say the progress is a bad thing; rather, time should be taken to learn from iterations, at least within some segments or others, to understand what is sustainable and what is not

but it doesn't really matter; the march of time, entropy, and human nature is the final judge and executor
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awesome999 posted...

Good point

Guess I'll become a satanist

TheMikh posted...

nothing about modernity is compatible with traditional religions

the spirit of modernity is to eradicate every last vestige of traditionalism

Every traditional custom isn't wrong. Modernity can definitely coexist with traditional values unless your idea of modernity is adultery, divorce and degeneracy. Many countries like UAE, Qatar, etc. are very advanced and people there still follow traditional values. Too bad Hollywood and western media has corrupted people's minds and told them that having no morals and limits is same as "liberation" or "freedom".

I don't get why some people are so hellbent on trying to find a place in groups that don't want them.

Create a brand new religion if you absolutely must believe in a higher being. Would you join and stay in a group that hated you and felt you were incompatible with the agenda?

Just more proof of how pointless religions are if you can just change them to fit whatever you believe. Just pick and choose and now you are believing in God right and everyone else is believing wrong! It would sure suck if you were wrong AND God is real since now you'll be burning in Hell for being born gay.

Good thing the chances of having guessed right on what God is, if they even existed, are impossibly small.
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user-2 posted...

TheMikh posted...

nothing about modernity is compatible with traditional religions

the spirit of modernity is to eradicate every last vestige of traditionalism

Every traditional custom isn't wrong. Modernity can definitely coexist with traditional values unless your idea of modernity is adultery, divorce and degeneracy. Many countries like UAE, Qatar, etc. are very advanced and people there still follow traditional values. Too bad Hollywood and western media has corrupted people's minds and told them that having no morals and limits is same as "liberation" or "freedom".

I like how you listed countries that suppress women and jail or kill gay people as good examples of balancing modernity and tradition
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As a Christian, I try to follow the teachings of Christ and I'm not aware of him having issues with treating LGBT the same or whatever. His whole thing was pretty much be nice to everyone. *shrugs*

Though to be fair its hard to see Jesus being totally in on violent media. >_>
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Sunhawk posted...

Do you think it IS possible to combine a modern, liberal approach to life, and still be a proper Christian (as opposed to someone who says they're Christian, but clearly isn't)?

If you're eating lobster or wearing a poly-cotton t-shirt, you've already figured out how.

hockeybub89 posted...

I like how you listed countries that suppress women and jail or kill gay people as good examples of balancing modernity and tradition

What is "suppressing women"? You just say that because that's what your media tells you like feminists saying how the hijab is suppressing women as if it is something forced upon them when women in the middle east themselves actually prefer dressing that way. Women in the west prefer walking in bikinis on the beach but that doesn't mean the rest of the world shares your worldview or wants to lead the same lifestyle. You will find people in the West are much more suicidal and depressed despite having all your imaginary "freedoms".

It's not really possible to exist in modernity at all and follow the Bible. Women would still be property, slavery would be legal, we'd be stoning people to death for wearing blended fabrics, etc.

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user-2 posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

I like how you listed countries that suppress women and jail or kill gay people as good examples of balancing modernity and tradition

What is "suppressing women"? You just say that because that's what your media tells you like feminists saying how the hijab is suppressing women as if it is something forced upon them when women in the middle east themselves actually prefer dressing that way. Women in the west prefer walking in bikinis on the beach but that doesn't mean the rest of the world shares your worldview or wants to lead the same lifestyle. You will find people in the West are much more suicidal and depressed despite having all your imaginary "freedoms".

If I tagged, I'd tag you as "Supports brutally oppressive Sharia shitholes"
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TheMikh posted...

the only truly ancient relations, indigenous paganism aside, are judaism and hinduism, which evolved and have continue to evolve as a response to environmental and social conditions over a sizable timeframe

Zoroastrianism is older than either and is still in practice. And Shinto's origins are in pre-history.


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awesome999 posted...

How exactly did he ask for equal rights?

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hockeybub89 posted...

If I tagged, I'd tag you as "Supports brutally oppressive Sharia shitholes"

and I'd tag you as sjw which I have

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



What's sad is some 40 year old having nothing better to do than post on a video game forum for 16 years.

religion is goofy hopefully in 100 years we evolve past it
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The Top Crusader posted...

As a Christian, I try to follow the teachings of Christ and I'm not aware of him having issues with treating LGBT the same or whatever. His whole thing was pretty much be nice to everyone. *shrugs*

Though to be fair its hard to see Jesus being totally in on violent media. >_>

*shrugs*

Its the foundation of how I live my life but I dunno it's kinda whatever

*shrugs*
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Christianity and secularism never went hand in hand, infact it was a major discussion of Jesus that the world has rejected him and would reject his followers.

The premise of this thread assumes there was a time when people could follow Christianity and society was in harmony with it.

You must be thinking the middle ages or renaissance was a time of Christianity and secular life being in harmony?

awesome999 posted...

satan was the good guy of the bible confirmed
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I'll admit I'm basing this off jesus christ superstar...

But doesn't Jesus Have a problem with people selling stuff at the temple? So does that mean the bible would poo poo walmart or flea markets at churches?

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34 Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.

37 Then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?

40 The King will reply, Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.

sounds like most "liberal" policies to me

but oh wait, that's SOCIALISM
my bad
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DoubleDare posted...

But doesn't Jesus Have a problem with people selling stuff at the temple? So does that mean the bible would poo poo walmart or flea markets at churches?

As explained by Ray Stevens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m_gDoXUlOk" data-time="

CADE FOSTER posted...

religion is goofy hopefully in 100 years we evolve past it

Eh... I doubt it. There's a case to be made that religion-- or at least some kind of spirituality-- is part of our genetic makeup. People are already moving away from organized religion, but I suspect we'll just be looking at a different stripe of nonsense.

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awesome999 posted...

Yikes
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The thing is, Christianity as you know it is a hodgepodge of secular ideas with a tiny layer of it looks like what is in the bible on top.

Since a.d. 70 these have been formed.

Christianity doesn't support war but Catholicism had no issue integrating that into it.

Christianity doesn't support taking from others and yet the colonizers had no issue integrating that into their form of it with the natives.

Contrary to what cemen would claim, it also doesn't support slavery and yet many who practices it claimed to be Christians. Fyi, the origin of abolition in Britain was Quakers.
https://rmc.library.cornell.edu/abolitionism/origins.htm

Christianity doesn't support divorcing your wife whenever or having tons of sex before marriage. Somehow, alot of Churches have popped up since the 90s that don't find issues with this.

There is even sects of Christianity that believe Jesus was not God fyi.

Secular Chrisyianity can make whatever it wants to be compatible and always has.

user-2 posted...

Every traditional custom isn't wrong. Modernity can definitely coexist with traditional values unless your idea of modernity is adultery, divorce and degeneracy. Many countries like UAE, Qatar, etc. are very advanced and people there still follow traditional values. Too bad Hollywood and western media has corrupted people's minds and told them that having no morals and limits is same as "liberation" or "freedom".

user-2 posted...

What is "suppressing women"? You just say that because that's what your media tells you like feminists saying how the hijab is suppressing women as if it is something forced upon them when women in the middle east themselves actually prefer dressing that way. Women in the west prefer walking in bikinis on the beach but that doesn't mean the rest of the world shares your worldview or wants to lead the same lifestyle. You will find people in the West are much more suicidal and depressed despite having all your imaginary "freedoms".

Wow... A lot to unpack here.
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MetalRearSolid posted...

The Top Crusader posted...

As a Christian, I try to follow the teachings of Christ and I'm not aware of him having issues with treating LGBT the same or whatever. His whole thing was pretty much be nice to everyone. *shrugs*

Though to be fair its hard to see Jesus being totally in on violent media. >_>

*shrugs*

Its the foundation of how I live my life but I dunno it's kinda whatever

*shrugs*

I dunno what else to do but shrug when people think Jesus taught that we should be mean to gay people or whatevs.
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Surely it's not even that easy to comfortably reconcile the Old Testament with the New?
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