Current Events > Kojima: Death Stranding gets really fun when you're around 50% through the game

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://screenrant.com/death-stranding-really-fun-halfway-hideo-kojima/

Kojima served up another brutally honest analysis of his own game in an interview with GameReactor during Tokyo Game Show 2019. According to Kojima, Death Stranding doesn't get "really fun" until players have "completed 50 percent of the game." That's obviously a design decision that most developers can't afford to make, as burying the hook of a game so far into its progression can lose people before they ever find it. That doesn't appear to be a concern for Kojima, however, who had a well-reasoned philosophy behind the decision - as well as a timely comparison to the movie Alien:

"Some people say its almost like the movie Alien, where you are gradually finding out what the whole world is about, what you can do and not do. Maybe it gets really fun when you have completed 50 percent of the game. The player, like in shooters and other genres, go into the game with a known rule and you think you know what a game is about. I didnt want to have that feeling. Everyone should start from ground zero. Not knowing how to pick up and play the game. What I have shown makes you puzzled, but it all really makes sense when you play the game."

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lol

way to sell it
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oh boy
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Ah, following the good ol Final Fantasy 13 plan. Its foolproof!
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He knows that's not a good thing, right?

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Dumb way to sell it, which makes me want to try the game more. DAMMIT KOJIMA!

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He's like Trump at this point. Knows how to say exactly the right thing to get everyone all riled up and talking. No publicity is bad publicity
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This game is going to be awful
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Hanky_Bannister posted...

way to sell it

This, but without sarcasm.
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If MGSV is any indication, this means the game gets fun around the 85 hour mark.
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You know what, if it plays like MGS5, im not going to like it. Because i played the crap out of MGS5 and im burnt out on that style of gameplay to this day.
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It's like he saw Yoko Taro created a game that goes from good to amazing only after the third playthrough, and took that to mean "so it doesn't have to be good at first?"
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The-19th-Sparta posted...

Ah, following the good ol Final Fantasy 13 plan. Its foolproof!

I got through about 70% of ff13 then gave up.

I refuse to believe that game ever gets fun.
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Pathetic!

Preorder CANCELLED

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The wording is weird, but what I think he's trying to say is that the game starts getting even better once you get to the halfway mark. Opposed to that being when it starts to get good.

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So it gets more fun when you get more shit, just like a lot of other games.
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Not sure I would even consider most games "really fun".

So this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

It depends how he defines "fun" I guess.
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im still upset i cant zoom in on normen reedus's crotch without getting punched
i really want to stare at his crotch :(

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This game is going to be an absolute masterpiece and loads of people are gonna not play it and say its garbage

GOTY confirmed.
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yusiko posted...

im still upset i cant zoom in on normen reedus's crotch without getting punched
i really want to stare at his crotch :(

Do we still get to see his ass
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Tyranthraxus posted...

He knows that's not a good thing, right?

Almost every game that locks skills behind levels or story progression work this way.

There's a difference between isn't fun and gets more fun. But people don't know how to read. So here we are.

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s0nicfan posted...

It's like he saw Yoko Taro created a game that goes from good to amazing only after the third playthrough, and took that to mean "so it doesn't have to be good at first?"

Automata was great the first playthrough, ass the second, and great again for the third though.
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sylverlolol posted...

s0nicfan posted...

It's like he saw Yoko Taro created a game that goes from good to amazing only after the third playthrough, and took that to mean "so it doesn't have to be good at first?"

Automata was great the first playthrough, ass the second, and great again for the third though.

The base game was good because it was a platinum game, but if the entire game was just the first playthrough it would only be like a 7. New Game Plus drags it up or down a point depending on how much you like hacking, but part 3 is where the game goes from just a good Platinum game to possibly the best game ever made.
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I have 0 doubt this game is going to be amazing
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I Like Toast posted...

Almost every game that locks skills behind levels or story progression work this way.

That's not even remotely true.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

That's not even remotely true.

Note how you couldn't list a game and failed to understand what the word almost means. Thanks for proving the point about reading.

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I Like Toast posted...

Note how you couldn't list a game and failed to understand what the word almost means. Thanks for proving the point about reading.

Why should I list games when you didn't list any?

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s0nicfan posted...

sylverlolol posted...

s0nicfan posted...

It's like he saw Yoko Taro created a game that goes from good to amazing only after the third playthrough, and took that to mean "so it doesn't have to be good at first?"

Automata was great the first playthrough, ass the second, and great again for the third though.

The base game was good because it was a platinum game, but if the entire game was just the first playthrough it would only be like a 7. New Game Plus drags it up or down a point depending on how much you like hacking, but part 3 is where the game goes from just a good Platinum game to possibly the best game ever made.

I quit shortly into the second playthrough :(
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Tyranthraxus posted...

I Like Toast posted...

Almost every game that locks skills behind levels or story progression work this way.

That's not even remotely true.

Games dont get more fun after you unlock more shit and progress more? There's basically whole genres that rely on this premise lol
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Smashingpmkns posted...

Games dont get more fun after you unlock more shit and progress more? There's basically whole genres that rely on this premise lol

And not even one genre listed.

Okay fine. I'll start.

MegaMan. Every game is fun from beginning to end except they ones that are bad and those are bad from beginning to end. They do not "get fun" halfway through.

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Trigg3rH4ppy posted...

s0nicfan posted...

sylverlolol posted...

s0nicfan posted...

It's like he saw Yoko Taro created a game that goes from good to amazing only after the third playthrough, and took that to mean "so it doesn't have to be good at first?"

Automata was great the first playthrough, ass the second, and great again for the third though.

The base game was good because it was a platinum game, but if the entire game was just the first playthrough it would only be like a 7. New Game Plus drags it up or down a point depending on how much you like hacking, but part 3 is where the game goes from just a good Platinum game to possibly the best game ever made.

I quit shortly into the second playthrough :(

Dude. Seriously. Fight your way through. Not only does the third playthrough pick up the story where the first left off, but you switch to a totally different character. It's basically the second half of the game. And if you can get all 5 endings, the special true ending is seriously one of the greatest moments in gaming history.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Why should I list games when you didn't list any?

Every FF, Every ARPG, Every Lootbased Shooter, Every MMO, Every Racing Game, etc, etc, etc, etc

Tyranthraxus posted...

MegaMan. Every game is fun from beginning to end except they ones that are bad and those are bad from beginning to end. They do not "get fun" halfway through.

I Like Toast posted...

There's a difference between isn't fun and gets more fun. But people don't know how to read. So here we are.

Thanks for being a statistic, please don't try again.

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Tbh I think most of these quotes sound worse than intended because Kojima's English isn't great.

Alien isn't more fun halfway through the movie when you find out more. Heh I think that's a franchise that's more fun the less you knew.

I think he's trying to say the first half of the game you know fuck all and you don't really know how it all works in the second half of the game. Those should be considered two different types of fun.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

Games dont get more fun after you unlock more shit and progress more? There's basically whole genres that rely on this premise lol

And not even one genre listed.

Okay fine. I'll start.

MegaMan. Every game is fun from beginning to end except they ones that are bad and those are bad from beginning to end. They do not "get fun" halfway through.

Roguelites, roguelikes, adventure games like Zelda, RPGs, loot shooters. Didnt think I had to list some veryblatantly obvious examples lol
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I dunno if I'd say RPG-like games get more fun as you progress. They're just different kinds of fun. The feeling of progressing from underpowered to overpowered is fun the whole way through.

But it's a moot point as Kojima isn't talking about progression mechanics he's talking about knowledge.
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I dont think hes saying that progression itself is what will make the game fun. I mean, even stuff like Zelda doesnt wait until 50% to be really fun. Usually just until you finish the tutorial dungeon.

It sounds like hes saying that a players understanding of the game is what will make it fun, and that that wont fully hit them until about the halfway point.

Either way this is just typical Kojima hipster bullshit and I am totally along for the ride lmao
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Darmik posted...

I dunno if I'd say RPG-like games get more fun as you progress. They're just different kinds of fun. The feeling of progressing from underpowered to overpowered is fun the whole way through.

But it's a moot point as Kojima isn't talking about progression mechanics he's talking about knowledge.

I'd disagree. I think knowledge and progression go hand in hand in most games, especially RPGs. Understanding the systems and mechanics of a game will make it more fun. And more games now then ever feed you that knowledge throughout the game. Astral Chain is a good current example of this.
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I Like Toast posted...

Every FF, Every ARPG, Every Lootbased Shooter, Every MMO, Every Racing Game, etc, etc, etc, etc

We already established this isn't true and repeating it doesn't make it so.

Smashingpmkns posted...

Roguelites, roguelikes

Games where you lose everything you've unlocked upon dying?

Smashingpmkns posted...

adventure games like Zelda,

Zelda is never not fun. Even the worst Zelda games are still really enjoyable even in the first few stages. Nothing you do makes it "more fun"

Smashingpmkns posted...

RPGs, loot shooters

These actually have the opposite issue. The longer you play, the more likely you are to unlock some bullshit upgrade that completely removes the fun from the game. There's nothing fun about Rinoa meteorwinging everything to death. It is, in fact, anti-fun.


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Tyranthraxus posted...

We already established this isn't true and repeating it doesn't make it so.

We didn't, we established you can't read and we've continued to prove it with every post. Like this one.

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I Like Toast posted...

We didn't, we established you can't read and we've continued to prove it with every post. Like this one.

That which is asserted without evidence is dismissed without evidence.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Games where you lose everything you've unlocked upon dying?

Guess you've never played any of them lol especially roguelites.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Zelda is never not fun. Even the worst Zelda games are still really enjoyable even in the first few stages. Nothing you do makes it "more fun"

Getting more stuff makes it more fun. Another good example would be the new God of War, and even the older ones.

Tyranthraxus posted...

These actually have the opposite issue. The longer you play, the more likely you are to unlock some bullshit upgrade that completely removes the fun from the game. There's nothing fun about Rinoa meteorwinging everything to death. It is, in fact, anti-fun.

This isnt even true for most RPGs lol

You can just say you read it wrong and no one would think any less of you.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

That which is asserted without evidence is dismissed without evidence.

Every post you make asserts you can't read, again, including this one
I Like Toast posted...

Thanks for being a statistic, please don't try again.

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Smashingpmkns posted...

Darmik posted...

I dunno if I'd say RPG-like games get more fun as you progress. They're just different kinds of fun. The feeling of progressing from underpowered to overpowered is fun the whole way through.

But it's a moot point as Kojima isn't talking about progression mechanics he's talking about knowledge.

I'd disagree. I think knowledge and progression go hand in hand in most games, especially RPGs. Understanding the systems and mechanics of a game will make it more fun. And more games now then ever feed you that knowledge throughout the game. Astral Chain is a good current example of this.

I wouldn't say Astral Chain doesn't get 'really fun' until you're halfway through the game.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

Getting more stuff makes it more fun. Another good example would be the new God of War, and even the older ones.

I am not contending that more stuff isn't more fun as a general blanket statement. I am contending this ridiculous tidbit here from ILT

I Like Toast posted...

Almost every game that locks skills behind levels or story progression work this way.

This is flat out bullshit.

Smashingpmkns posted...

This isnt even true for most RPGs lol

Yes it is. It's true for basically every major RPG as well as most classical favorites. Every Pokemon game has legendaries that completely outclass the rest of the single player portions of the game. Every final fantasy since 5 has had stupid broken bullshit you could do such as one-shotting Kefka in FF6, level 1 Solo Ramza vs Belius, stupid strong summons in every FF since 7. Fire Emblem has Wyvern Lord which invalidates most other weapon using units. Again it goes on and on.

Smashingpmkns posted...

Guess you've never played any of them lol especially roguelites.

Feel free to insult me all you like but I've spent a lot of time getting rid of upgrades in Crypt of the Necrodancer and wish I could do the same in Dead Cells and other roguelites.

Actual roguelikes don't have carry over progression.


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This is honestly the case with most games, but at the same time, this isn't the best thing to say to market your game.

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Darmik posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

Darmik posted...

I dunno if I'd say RPG-like games get more fun as you progress. They're just different kinds of fun. The feeling of progressing from underpowered to overpowered is fun the whole way through.

But it's a moot point as Kojima isn't talking about progression mechanics he's talking about knowledge.

I'd disagree. I think knowledge and progression go hand in hand in most games, especially RPGs. Understanding the systems and mechanics of a game will make it more fun. And more games now then ever feed you that knowledge throughout the game. Astral Chain is a good current example of this.

I wouldn't say Astral Chain doesn't get 'really fun' until you're halfway through the game.

It kinda does actually. File 3 is when the game opens up, which is already a good few hours in, but it's not until file 5 or 6 when the game gets really fun after you've unlocked more moves and abilities. The combat isnt even completely realized until maybe file 8. And theres 11 files in the game lol

I like the game a lot but let's be real here.
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That doesn't mean he thinks it's not fun the first half. Xenoblade 2's combat takes a long time before it becomes really fun.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Feel free to insult me all you like but I've spent a lot of time getting rid of upgrades in Crypt of the Necrodancer and wish I could do the same in Dead Cells and other roguelites.

Actual roguelikes don't have carry over progression.

Wtf you think a roguelite is? Also roguelikes get more fun with progression of the game. Sure you may reset items but your knowledge of the game doesn't reset.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Yes it is. It's true for basically every major RPG as well as most classical favorites. Every Pokemon game has legendaries that completely outclass the rest of the single player portions of the game. Every final fantasy since 5 has had stupid broken bullshit you could do such as one-shotting Kefka in FF6, level 1 Solo Ramza vs Belius, stupid strong summons in every FF since 7. Fire Emblem has Wyvern Lord which invalidates most other weapon using units. Again it goes on and on

FE definitely gets more fun the more you build your units and the more you know about the games. Most western RPGs (Fallout, Fable, Dragon Age) get more fun the more you build your character, same with action RPGs like Dark Souls.
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The combat is really fun pretty quickly though. Like as soon as I could sync attack with Legions it was fun. The game wouldnt be more fun if you had all of that stuff to start with because it would be overwhelming and then you'd have nothing to get throughout the game.

It someone says 'the game gets really fun halfway through' the default thought isn't that it must have a learning curve. It's that it takes time to get going which happens in plenty of games and it's usually not a good thing. It usually means the game isn't paced well.

Like again this is probably another example of broken English from Kojima (it's not even clear if he's talking about gameplay or the narrative) and yet people are acting like 'this game doesn't get really good until you're halfway through' is some cool and normal thing. There's a reason specific Final Fantasy and Zelda games get that statement.
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